Good service vs. Attractive servers

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by GGG

So here is why you are wrong.

99.9% of people perfer a free refill to be brought to there table without them asking. .1% of people are bat #### crazy and dont. So if you save 7 seconds each time you get a refill without someone asking who wants it and lose 14 seconds when a person wants a different refill. Then on balance you should bring everyone an unsolicited refill because overall time is saved.

No, here's why you are wrong:

1. The server is asking the customer what they want.
2. We get a menu for a *REAL* REASON, so *WE* can decide, not our servers, not the managers.
3. We are paying a *TIP* so we can get our time not wasted on things we don't want.
4. No server is a mind reader.
5. Not everyone wants refills without asking, therefore, you can't do that 100% of the time getting things 100% correctly all the time.
6. The person that wants it that way is supposed to *ORDER* that way. As I said in #4, no servers are mind readers.
7. Doesn't matter if it saves time, because the server isn't supposed to place an order for their customers without their consent. Where are you getting that it matters? If you don't want your time wasted, *YOU* request it that way.

Now my percentages are exagerated there but as long as 66% of people perfer unsolicited refills ( and at least that many do) then it is more efficient to always bring refills.

It doesn't matter what's more efficient. What matters is what does the ***************INDIVIDUAL CUSTOMERS WANT**********! That's why you don't see servers just bringing you things without greeting you, DUHH. That's why we get a menu. That's why a lot of servers DO still ask if we want refills. It's not more efficient to the customers that don't want it. It doesn't matter if most people want this or that. What matters is the ********INDIVIDUAL CUSTOMER********* what ********THEY WANT*********, NOT what other people want.

The other people aren't tipping that table's tip. That customer's table is tipping for *THEIR PERSONAL SERVICE*, NOT ONE BIG TIP for the entire restaurant.

And since you expect all time to be optimized you should thank the server for saving the average customer a small amount if time.

But it's *MY SERVICE*, so NO, I won't "thank" someone for wasting my time and my TIP MONEY. HELL THE F' NO! NO WAY JOSE!!

They should be **************APOLOGIZING*************** FOR MY LOST TIME THEY CREATED. They wasted my time. The apology should also be for trying to control my dining experience with what they want instead of what *I* want. They shouldn't be doing that. It's not them tipping us, it's us tipping them, so they have to do what *WE* want ONLY. That's why customers tip and not the servers tipping us.

I will not EVER thank someone that wasted my time. ARE YOU CRAZY? So you expect me to thank someone for helping SOMEONE ELSE'S SERVICE(not my own I am tipping for) to have them control our tip money, WTH??? YOU ARE NUTS!

Nobody bases their tip on someone else's service. If I have good service, I am sure not going to base my tip on the table next to me that had their appetizer order forgotten about. That is what you are saying I should do, tip based on other people's services.

I am not going to thank someone to be mean. Being nice is to PROVE you *CARE* about not wasting my time to *ASK* me first. It's not my server's choice to ORDER for me, it's MINE! *I* AM THE TIPPING CUSTOMER, NOT THEM!

99.9% of people perfer a free refill to be brought to there table without them asking. .

It doesn't matter what 99.9% of people want when you serve. You are serving each *INDIVIDUAL* person at the table. Some people in the party may want refills without asking, some may not. You have *ASK* at the greeting to get it 100% right all the time. This way, you satisfy everyone. If they don't want to be asked that question, then I suggest to those customers bring you a list and give to your server if you don't want to be asked questions, because NOBODY CAN READ MINDS.

It doesn't matter what "most" people do or don't do. WHY would that play into an *INDIVIDUALIZED TIP* you are getting, huh? That makes NO SENSE. If you the entire restaurant had ONE person paying the tip, then only that ONE person's opinion would matter, but you are having many people in a party's opinion on the service, therefore, it matters what *******EACH PERSON IN EACH PARTY WANTS.

It's *****THEM DRINKING IT******, NOT THE SERVER, THEREFORE, WHY SHOULD IT MATTER HOW *******YOU****** WANT TO SERVE, HUH?

IT'S NOT MY SERVER'S TIP PAYING FOR MY SERVICE, SO THEY DON'T GET ONE IOTA OF SAY SO IN IT!

Why do we get a menu and why do we get asked what we want if it's OK for the server to order for us without our consent or permission, huh?

Why are *WE* paying the tip if it's up to JUST US, huh? Why are we getting asked what we want to drink to begin with if it's only up to our server according to you?

[Dion]

Is this Springs1?



Outed L.A. Times restaurant critic won’t stop writing reviews

For anyone who hasn't been following along, here is the story of S. Irene Virbila, the veteran Los Angeles Times restaurant critic, and Noah Ellis, the Beverly Hills restaurateur who outed her.

It began Tuesday night. Virbila and several friends had been waiting 45 minutes for a table at Red Medicine, a new Vietnamese food joint where Ellis is a managing partner. Upon learning that Virbila, who had logged her reservation under another name, was indeed Virbila, he marched up to her, snapped a photograph, and asked her entire party to leave. She was banned.

Ellis elaborated in a post on Red Medicine's Tumblr page: "We find that some of her reviews can be unnecessarily cruel and irrational, and that they have caused hard-working people in this industry to lose their jobs — we don't feel that they should be blind-sided by someone with no understanding of what it takes to run or work in a restaurant."

http://tipthepizzaguy.com/discussion...=13128&page=18

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by pylon

I would also like to ad, you label everyone as 'lazy and uncaring'. It seems to be your favourite term. However, the fact that you dine out with such incredible frequency shows that you, yourself are incredibly 'lazy' in the fact that you won't take the time to prepare your own meals. Anything made at any of the restaurants you frequent is a downgrade to what even the most average person can prepare in their own kitchen. You can buy half your diet pre-made at a grocery store's prepared meals section at half the price and twice the quality for gods sake. Go to an organic market, and it may actually be good for you. You are exactly what you despise. A lazy and uncaring individual.

So what you are saying is you sew your own clothes, you grow your own garden of fruits and vegetables, you wash your own car all the time, you change your own car's oil all the time rather than having someone else do it, etc.

Get my drift? If you can't say you do all of those things, then how can you call me lazy for not cooking? Some people sew and grow their own garden for example.

You are lazy in OTHER WAYS. Most people are. I am lazy with that stuff. I don't do all of those things either. I do wash my own car, that's about it out of that list I provided. I do clean my own house. Some people pay housekeepers to do it. That's lazy right there. Understand what I am saying that we are all lazy in some ways. The thing is, I am saying on the jobs I have had, I am not lazy. That's my point. When I am on the job, I do the BEST I can. I would do as I preach like write every single thing down, check over the things I would give my customers, etc. Understand my point?

[pylon]

Springs1 why do you never respond to any posts that address your mental health? Is there something you are hiding from us? Please answer this question truthfully. Have you ever been diagnosed with a mental illness/disorder? And what are they? Also are you on any medications for them?

If you are a religious woman, please answer the question with god as your witness. Also if you do not answer this question, I will assume the answer is yes to both questions.

[Dion]

board master writes:

<< Her IP address is 68.209.147.214. Springs1 is a lunatic, but to me she‘s an insignificant speck of dust. She amounts to as little as the so-called "theft" of coins she claims to value so highly. If someone "stole" a whole dollar she might have an aneurysm. LOL. I suggest you leave Springs1 alone in her padded cell. We know it‘s not stealing if the item‘s value is so tiny that it won‘t normally matter if it was gone, but Springs1 suffers from obsessive-compulsive disorder and can‘t reason this fact out in her mind. To her, missing a penny is as bad as losing a thousand dollars. She thinks the entire service can be evaluated on the basis of forgetting or omitting the stupid coins. If she had a snow storm delivery of $31.97 on-time with friendly greeting, and the driver gave back $8 but forgot to retrieve 3 cents while in sub-zero windchill, Springs1 would go berserk despite "intending" to tip $6. Her condition is very sad, indeed. She needs professional psychological help.

You might notice, in the 2005 topic, Lords used all-caps a lot. That‘s another reason I know she‘s the same troll. Let‘s ignore her lunacy. Laugh at it if you can, but I‘d rather cry for her. >>

http://tipthepizzaguy.com/discussion...um=13128&i=&ip=

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Springs1

So what you are saying is you sew your own clothes, you grow your own garden of fruits and vegetables, you wash your own car all the time, you change your own car's oil all the time rather than having someone else do it, etc.

Get my drift? If you can't say you do all of those things, then how can you call me lazy for not cooking? Some people sew and grow their own garden for example.

You are lazy in OTHER WAYS. Most people are. I am lazy with that stuff. I don't do all of those things either. I do wash my own car, that's about it out of that list I provided. I do clean my own house. Some people pay housekeepers to do it. That's lazy right there. Understand what I am saying that we are all lazy in some ways. The thing is, I am saying on the jobs I have had, I am not lazy. That's my point. When I am on the job, I do the BEST I can. I would do as I preach like write every single thing down, check over the things I would give my customers, etc. Understand my point?

It takes a day to sew a set of clothes. It takes 5 minutes to make a salad, 20 minutes with a healthy entre. It is actually less time than the driving time to go to the restaurant. So you are contradicting yourself. It is actually more work and time consuming to go out. And the garbage restaurants (if they can be called that) you frequent, are barely above fast food joints. If you expect incredible service, it won't be found at a place that hands out plastic cups of ranch, and bottomless soft drinks. Figuratively, you are going into a Hyundai dealership, and expecting to drive out with a Bentley for the same price. Mediocre service at sub standard garbage restaurants where everything comes out of a deep fryer is par for the course, and to be expected. There is a reason most people have to work in them, and it is rarely because they choose to. They are one of two things. A starving student more educated than you that despises what they are doing, and do it out of necessity until they finish school to be your boss one day. Or an uneducated adult that can't find a real job that pays well. Nobody wakes up one day and says "I want to work at Appleby's for a living!" Nobody.

On the other hand, go to a fine dining establishment and be served by a true professional server, and you will have an entirely different experience. However, your personal expectations and lack of class, do not fall in line with International/Gourmet restaurant etiquette. You would likely be asked to leave, if you put on your little act. There is a way you will be served in those establishments that 99% of the world accepts as the norm. What you believe to be proper server etiquette is outside of it, and they will not change for one lunatic demanding sleeves of ranch dressing and bread to take home.

[pylon]

The saddest part of this, is she lives in New Orleans according to her IP address, home to some of the most amazing restaurants in the world. Yet she goes out for deep fried cheese sticks at Chili's.

What a waste too. As some of the smaller independent restaurants there would be just as cheap as TGI Friday's, yet 5X better.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

A few observations:

1) Springs1 will never come to Canada as her husband is against places that are anti-gun.

2) Springs1 I think part of the issue here is (a) I didn't know where you were from so worked on the assumption that you were Canadian, (b) now that I know that you're from New Orlenes the cuture around restaurants is (probably) different. Therefore it could be you order the glass there, whereas here you order the contents. This also explains why you think everyone here is wrong about how restaurants are staffed and tips distributed. (It's even different from Calgary to where I live, where I live servers keep 100% of the tip, no sharing at all).

3) If you ramble and change your argument enough you'll eventually get people who are to parts of what you're saying. I wonder if the posters above agree with everything or just small parts of what Springs1 said.

The other thing is the internet has what a billion people on it? Eventually you'll find people who agree. What's dangerous is taking a less than one percent of interactions as validation. Even the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church have peoe that agree with them. Doesn't mean that they are right.

4) Springs1, why do you go onto message boards of other places and cultures and tell them how servers should act?


I read this article this morning and thought it was interesting: http://www.slate.com/articles/health...ychopathy.html

[strombad]

She's still just a bad person.

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Can you please post a statistical analysis or scholar writing to back up this statement.

I don't think "a lot" of servers do have that mentality. The board here agrees with me. Therefore we as a collective will need some sort of evidence to back up this claim.

I have had servers that said "Your server will get that for you" when they brought our food to us. That's not teamwork as what a restaurant is. You aren't supposed to tell a customer in another way of saying "So what you want a refill" kind of thing and then they didn't even tell our server about it even.

I had one server that ran the food to us that wasn't our server tell me "You would have had to order them with your food" when I had told him I ordered 3 tartar sauces. That's mean and it's LAZY. I mean really, first off I DID order it with my food. Secondly, even if someone doesn't, they are allowed to order from this other server since that person is part of their service. That means I didn't have to order it with my meal to get it. That's ######ed for that waiter to have said that to me.

So you're tipping one person on a team effort. If the people that bring you your food do a good job, the server's tip increases.

It also decreases if they do a bad job or rude such as that waiter that told me "You'd have to order them with your food." It goes both ways. We have increased the tip based on a server I remember the rare times, which I remember one instance where this other server that wasn't our server when they brought us our food out OFFERED us some refills and got us some. That server's tip increased because of this other person's actions that wasn't seeing the tip. So it goes BOTH WAYS.

In a situation where tips are pooled, I'd agree. However that wasn't the scenario. The scenario was only the server gets the tip. Let's stay on topic.

Doesn't matter. If the server only wants to get based on their actions, then they will have to let our food sit in the kitchen under a heat lamp then. That's the option if they are too busy to come to bring us food such as let's say they are in the middle of taking another table's order when our food is ready. Since the manager probably wouldn't let that happen, the tip is based on the SERVICE. Why should I pay a good tip for example with that waiter that said that to me to get treated like that? Also, something like tartar sauces are our waiter's fault anyways, because that's something that can be brought out ahead of time that our waiter could have controlled. Let's say if it wasn't condiments and it was a side dish, do you think someone should tip well based on someone in the service being rude? I mean how is that *FAIR* to US? To OUR HAPPINESS? Honestly, if the other server got some of the tip from our server, they probably would have read the ticket and compared it to the food to have caught the error(3 tartar sauces you just don't miss so either our waiter didn't put it into the computer(that situation I believe he probably didn't since he wasn't writing down the condiment parts I ordered just the main dishes). Even though, you don't just miss 3 sides of tartar sauce if you really checked the food for only a party of 2. I mean I can see maybe missing that if we were in a large party, but not for my husband's order that he ordered as it came and my modified order, meaning only ONE modified order, that's BS that you'd really just miss that if you really check the food over. One condiment I can see missing, but THREE, NO WAY. Not for just 2 people in a party.

It is completely unreasonable and unacceptable to have a server managing peers. That is the manager's job.

No, that's just helping the business out and the customer's happiness. That's not unreasonable.

In order to have this scenario work, the tip should go to the manager.

No, the manager didn't do the work, so that's very UNFAIR and you know it.

It's not in a server's job description or authority to control the actions of other servers.

They can't control them, but they can report them to a manager.

Because you're not solving any problem or really raising awareness. If I have a problem with a flight attendant on United Airlines, I'm not going to blast against the airline industry as a whole on every forum I can find.

I am. I am passing along the TRUTH. Some people agree with me. Heck, you even saw that someone THANKED me for helping them become a better server on my blog.

Your argument is that service is rarely acceptable.

No, I didn't say that. I NEVER ONCE said that.

I'm saying this to help your argument.

Like most reasonable people, if you give me the evidence you will persuade me.

I would have to post examples of my dining experiences. I can do that, but they are long. I will wait to do that since they are really long stories. Read this post first.

Time and time again? As stated above, I need this to be demonstrated as in my experience, and the experience of the others here this is simply not true.

I will in another post, because the stories are long.

You can decide what you want. No one is denying you this.

You are. You are telling me that my server needs to bring me something without my permission when *I* am ****PAYING THEM A TIP******* for them NOT to make decisions for me.

You don't seem to understand the difference between elapsed time and wasted time.

You don't. Wasting time is me **WAITING LONGER THAN I HAVE TO FOR MY ITEM I DO WANT*.

If you get your order at the same time, the process of how that happened doesn't effect you

But I am not getting it at the same time. It's delayed by the person going to a soda station or the kitchen, grabbing a glass, filling it with ice and drink. Then coming back to my table when they were close to my table before. All of that takes time. Then also if the syrup is out for that soft drink, yes, that takes time as well.

In the scenario presented, your drink arrived at the same time. Even if it takes an extra 6 seconds, that is based on a subjective time when seeing when your drink started to get low (not empty).

No, it doesn't. If you go from the living room sofa to the kitchen to grab a glass fill it with water and ice and come back to the sofa which the person says they don't want it, they want coke instead. You have wasted time and that's just at your own house. You have no clue of what you are talking about. Anything you do for nothing is wasting time. That's why the Red Lobster waiter looked pissed when I asked "Could I get a coke instead" as he had in his hand a dr. pepper. You know why, he didn't want to do the same job over again, that's why. It's wasting time for him, for other customers, and for me.

Also most customers have a refill of the same drink. So asking if you want a refill is taking up more time.

It may take more time for the people that do want refills without asking, but that's their fault if they didn't *ORDER* that way, blame THEM, NOT me. If you want your service that way you need to ORDER that way. It's common sense I don't have to tell my server "Please don't order for me", because that's common sense strangers aren't supposed to order for someone else, like DUH. That's why we get a menu, that's why they come to ask us in the first place what we want to drink. That's why *WE* pay the tip.

So the situation is A) bring a refill and the customer is happy; B) bring a refill the customer requests a different drink (which again is debatable if allowable) and the server gets it. Realistically the time to put the drink down and fill a new one is literally zero, as they can dump the unneeded drink after. You're stretching saying that every second is crucial in an environment that isn't an exact science.

No, it's not. The servers look pissed when I send them back. WHY? It's MORE WORK to go back to do it which takes ***********TIME************.

If you're complaining about service you're also complaining about a negative atmosphere. Do you see how the two are connected?

No, because I am not complaining about things the server can't control. I am complaining about things they *CAN* control.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Even if it takes an extra 6 seconds you drink still isn't consumed.

A sip of it could have been that much sooner and it takes WAYYY MORE THAN 6 seconds. I want you to time it in your own house and think about that you also have other servers to maybe even wait on the soda station after as well that want that exact drink.

Or do you stop drinking the Coke at a random time and sit waiting absolutely parched waiting for your Iced Tea?

No.

I'm sorry, can you give me the layout of the specific restaurant you're referring to?

Chili's is an example.

Also it is unreasonable to expect the check the moment you want it. Servers have to balance several tables. Yours isn't the only table. Part of the trade off of not having to do dishes, cook the food, is that you have a shared server. Things don't happen the moment they are desired.

I agree if it's something the server can't control, but this IS to get a refill or not without permission. It's not their right to do that. Legally it's not their tip money to be able to do this.

Time lost doesn't equate to a negative experience.

That's your opinion. Why in traffic people get frustrated even saw people honk on someone at a green light like once someone in the back of the line I heard honked before I even got a chance to? Time lost does equate to that when people are thirsty and I don't know of ANYONE that LOVES waiting. If I could be first in all the lines everywhere I sure would and most people would.

If you wanted a robotic service then get drive-thru.

No, if I am tipping I can get the service I want.

If you don't want drive-thru realize that you aren't being served by robots.

Then why act like one that just goes to get refills automatically? That's what a robot would do rather than acting like we are HUMAN BEINGS that CONVERSE. A robot would not have human interaction, so honestly you are contradicting your logic here.

Asking if every single customer wants a refill that is included in the price takes time.

That time could save you time if the customer doesn't want it and even if let's say 99.9% of people always say yes, you will know 100% for SURE you are making your customer happy. You won't EVER be sure without asking. It's not your choice is my point. It's ONLY THE CUSTOMER'S CHOICE!

If 90% of the customers want the same refill, then asking them is a waste of time to accommodate the 10% that want something different.

So 6 seconds is not OK to do this, but it's ok to waste my 6 seconds(which it IS a lot more), WTH??? It doesn't take much time to ask them. You are taking MUCH LESS TIME to ask than to fix a drink for nothing and to go the kitchen and back to the customer's table for nothing.

Also, asking is because it's not your choice. You still don't seem to understand that you are wanting CONTROL. If you want that control, *YOU* should TIP US. That's right, when you serve us, *YOU* PAY US A TIP if you want that control. Otherwise, since we are paying you, WE get that control to control YOUR actions, NOT the other way around. That's why we tip for OUR service, NOT so YOU can satisfy yourself. Even if you are satisfying most people doing in your way, you don't know until you ask and it's NOT YOUR CHOICE. You aren't drinking it. You aren't paying for the service, therefore, that's not your legal right to order for someone whether it's faster or not, doesn't make a difference. You are acting like one question is so horrible. If you want to shorten things don't ask us how we are doing just say your name since it's required and ask us what we want to drink, skip the small talk.

It makes more sense to accommodate the 90%.

No, it makes more sense to satisfy 100% and not control anyone else's tip money. It makes more sense to make EVERYONE HAPPY rather than just 90%. It makes more sense to prevent getting refills for nothing. It wastes products of the company, money of the company, and other customer's service you could be getting something that is wanted instead.

You still don't get it's NOT YOUR CHOICE!

Where I live free refills aren't necessarily the norm. And a soft drink is not a soft drink. A smoothie is by definition a soft drink (as it doesn't have alcohol).

I don't live where you live.

You state it's not fair to order Coke and only get Coke.

No, I NEVER said that.

I'd also argue it's not fair to order Coke and expect something else.

No, because if it's a soft drink or iced tea which is the SAME PRICE and FREE REFILLS, they are interchangeable any one of those items. I can get a coke, dr. pepper, and then an iced tea only get charged for my coke since it's free refills on all fountain drinks and iced tea. It's not a different price for any of them. Do you see on the menu where coke has a specific price, then Dr. Pepper, etc. No. It's a CATEGORY. I am ordering within a category. I don't have to stick with the same drink. The menu doesn't say that.

You didn't read the definition of a refill, did you?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/refillrefill "1. to fill again.

noun 2. a material, supply, or the like, to replace something that has been used up: a refill for a prescription."

Especially if you order "Coke" and not order the "glass of soda pop" and request the first time to be Coke. Then you've ordered the glass and not the contents.

No, I have ordered a coke. You can refill the glass with water. You can still have a refill of milk, but THAT WOULD NOT BE FREE since milk is NOT one of the free refillable drinks. Understand?

Some places have unlimited fries (Swiss Chalet has this promotion from time to time). It's unreasonable to order your quarter chicken with fries but then ask for salad as your next side. Salad is the same price but it's not fries, which you ordered.

That's because the salad doesn't have refills, so OF COURSE YOU ARE RIGHT WITH THAT. DUH, I am not talking about comparing 1 thing that has a free refill and the other that doesn't. I am talking about a CATEGORY of items that have free refills. You are comparing oranges to apples here.

If the salad and the fries had unlimited refills being the same price, then I could get them interchangeable with no extra charge. Understand?

But that doesn't mean it's universal.

It is, because if it's free refills for a coke, just because I switch to sprite isn't fair I should have to pay a refill for the same thing(a soft drink) that is the same price and both have free refills. Remember, the definition of a refill is not that it has to be the same exact item. Read the definition, because you don't know what a refill is. A refill is just FILLING AGAIN a container, nothing more.

Not if it's in the menu. You have to request something different from the menu.

No, on the menu it states the following:

http://www.redlobster.com/menus/beve...lic_drinks.asp

"Complimentary refills on Fountain Beverages, Coffee and Tea"

That tells you all of them are interchangeable of these items. That means if coffee happens to be a lesser price, let's say I start out with a coke, then order a coffee, I would get charged on for the coke, because the coffee was a cheaper price since it has free refills. The thing is, with that situation is a bit different because those 2 items have different prices unlike a coke or a dr. pepper for example.

In my experience, and most here, if you have water and it gets low the server refills it for you. It's odd to have to request it.

You don't have that right to decide what I want for *MY TIP MONEY IN *MY* SERVICE *I* AM PAYING FOR. It doesn't matter that water is free. The *SERVICE* ISN'T FREE. I am paying you to let *ME* decide if I want water or not. When you pay my tip, THEN you can decide what you want.

It's not the server commanding you, it's the server giving you maximum value for dollar for your order.

No, the value for my dollar is zero to the restaurant since it's a free refill and maximum dollar is the TIP I am paying for which they aren't giving me the maximum dollar to take up more time of mine which if you ever heard the saying time is money for both the server and the customer.

Servers base their actions of overall efficiency, which doesn't necessarily mean the most efficient thing if serving only one individual table.

But it's not about what you want. Again, STOP CONTROLLING OTHER PEOPLE'S TIP MONEY.

They are also in the service of the restaurant, and other customers. It's a balancing act, not just you specifically.

They are if they want my money they should do things how *I* want it for *MY TIP* that I don't have to pay them.

Generally it does. If I order a coffee, I can't switch to tea. If I order Coke I can't switch to beer.

You are comparing something that cost more to something that doesn't get free refills. WHY is that? You aren't getting this, are you? I can't get a coke and get the beer for free, because the beer doesn't have free refills, DUHH, so I can't get both without being charged for both. Coffee as I said, whichever one is more expensive, that's the one that the server charges you for since coffee and tea get free refills.

If you do want to switch, especially where it's an unusual request, then it falls on the customer to ask for the switch.

I ask for the switch. If you mean tell them I will be switching beforehand that's wasting MY TIP MONEY. I am not going to ONE-UP them per say that they MIGHT ASSUME. Not all servers give refills without asking. It's a test to see if they are going to be a good server or not. That's why other customers do test their server not to ASK for what they want. So we are doing the same thing essentially honestly considering a lot of servers don't give refills without asking.

You ordered a Dr. Pepper, not a Coke, or Iced Tea.

But if all of those items are the free refills and cost the same, then they are interchangeable.

I'm not contradicting myself as if I order a coffee I can't switch to tea, or beer.

Again, you are mentioning beer that cost more money and has no refills. WHY? you can switch from coffee to tea. Once my husband at a restaurant had a cup of coffee then switched to diet coke. He got charged just for the coffee(should have been charged for the diet coke and not the coffee since it was higher the diet coke). It's all because they got free refills is why.

If I go to East Side Marios and order an unlimited pasta bowl, I don't get to switch what the pasta is, and then at the end of the meal I don't get to take another type home. That's not realistic. You get refills of your order.

You sure do at OLIVE GARDEN. YOU ARE VERYYYYYYYY WRONG THERE. I have gotten different pastas at Olive Garden. They do it. I promise you that. Now can I get a more expensive one? Of course not, it's certain ones they let you choose from.

If they allow you to switch the drink, great, but by no means is it expected.

It sure is, because it's illegal to overcharge me.

Again you ordered Coke, not the glass. You're ordering the consumable not the serving device.

My point was I am ordering ONE thing, NOT more than that. I am not ordering 5 glasses at once.

But it is in the menu. If you read the menu that says free refills, then it is expected that you refill what you ordered.

No, the menu doesn't state "refills only on the 1st drink you choose", does it? If anything, that menu above PROVES it's a CATEGORY I can choose from.

If you ask for a Coke, you ordered Coke. If you ask for a steak you ordered a steak not a plate.

Again, talking about more expensive non-free refillable items.

Read the menu and see what it says.

I did and proved to you that you are wrong. Nowhere does the menu state you have to stick with the same drink to get the refill. Remember the definition of a refill is just refilling a glass that's it. It's not sticking with the same exact contents.

In this scenario clearly it's busy, and you have to account for that.

Thank you.

Treating you like a human being is polite.

No, you are treating me like I am robot not asking me things.

While I agree it should be written down, docking someone for not taking your order how you like it, but getting it right isn't fair or reasonable either.

I NEVER ONCE said I docked anyone for it. It just makes me on edge worrying the whole time it won't come out right.

The manager gave you a choice? Isn't that what you're arguing the whole time? Choice?

No, the manager didn't give me a choice, my waiter did.

So bringing you a refill is mind reading, but taking money off the bill rather than an extra isn't mind reading.

Of course not, the server *********ASKED PERMISSION BEFORE DOING SOMETHING*****. That's sure not mind reading.

You can't have it both ways.

What both ways? One is asking, the other isn't. You can't understand that.

I'd be happy with a free dessert.

That's you. You do know it's cheaper for the restaurant to do that than to take money off your bill that it's a better deal to get money off your bill. The dessert doesn't actually cost the restaurant $7 or whatever it is on the menu.

Personally I'd rather order a dessert if I was still hungry for it and pay for it, then get the $5 off my bill. It's a better deal that way, it really honestly is.

Hungry yes, but not starvation.

Sorry, I don't agree.

I understand time, but effect of that time is what you seem to be missing.

No, you don't seem to get it's not your choice and it takes a lot more time than just 6 seconds.

That means servers not rushing, running, and shoving to get you your coffee 2 seconds earlier.

So people like waiting? I don't know a single customer that wants to wait longer for what they ordered. I am not sure where you get that from? I mean as long as the courses don't run into each other, there shouldn't be any problem.

Servers are to be relaxing and friendly,

"friendly" when they are acting like they can't ask us if we want more drink. That's not friendly and you know it. That is the 100% COMPLETE OPPOSITE.

If you're worried about getting your drink 2 seconds sooner, then you belong in the drive-thru.

No, because I am PAYING for service and it's A LOT MORE than 2 seconds.

It's more realistically like a minute or so and if there's more than one refill done for nothing even more time.

I've been polite and explained my point of view, and countered your arguments. I have done it very politely.

At no point did I call you dumb (which you said to me multiple times while not critically reading my post).

I'm sorry. I was just irritated that you can't see my point of what I am trying to say.

[strombad]

Doesn't matter what your point is, you're a cruel, controlling glutton who is just trying to hold power over servers. It's terrible of you.

[pylon]

Good lord.

/MMF

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Springs1

No, here's why you are wrong:

1. The server is asking the customer what they want.
2. We get a menu for a *REAL* REASON, so *WE* can decide, not our servers, not the managers.
3. We are paying a *TIP* so we can get our time not wasted on things we don't want.
4. No server is a mind reader.
5. Not everyone wants refills without asking, therefore, you can't do that 100% of the time getting things 100% correctly all the time.
6. The person that wants it that way is supposed to *ORDER* that way. As I said in #4, no servers are mind readers.
7. Doesn't matter if it saves time, because the server isn't supposed to place an order for their customers without their consent. Where are you getting that it matters? If you don't want your time wasted, *YOU* request it that way.

But it's *MY SERVICE*, so NO, I won't "thank" someone for wasting my time and my TIP MONEY. HELL THE F' NO! NO WAY JOSE!!

They should be **************APOLOGIZING*************** FOR MY LOST TIME THEY CREATED. They wasted my time. The apology should also be for trying to control my dining experience with what they want instead of what *I* want. They shouldn't be doing that. It's not them tipping us, it's us tipping them, so they have to do what *WE* want ONLY. That's why customers tip and not the servers tipping us.

It doesn't matter what 99.9% of people want when you serve. You are serving each *INDIVIDUAL* person at the table. Some people in the party may want refills without asking, some may not. You have *ASK* at the greeting to get it 100% right all the time. This way, you satisfy everyone. If they don't want to be asked that question, then I suggest to those customers bring you a list and give to your server if you don't want to be asked questions, because NOBODY CAN READ MINDS.

It doesn't matter what "most" people do or don't do. WHY would that play into an *INDIVIDUALIZED TIP* you are getting, huh? That makes NO SENSE. If you the entire restaurant had ONE person paying the tip, then only that ONE person's opinion would matter, but you are having many people in a party's opinion on the service, therefore, it matters what *******EACH PERSON IN EACH PARTY WANTS.

The point you miss is that you are not served in a vaccum. A servers incentive is to maximize tips from all tables not from your table. This is not done by providing good service. It is done by serving a maximum number of tables.

Also if a restaurant makes 0 mistakes they will be bankrupt shortly. The level of quality control required to make 0 mistakes is to high to be profitable. Perhaps 1 in 50 or 1 in 100 items going out of the kitchen should have errors. If I get a good meal 49 out of 50 times I eat somewhere I am coming back. So never say a server should be 100% correct, that is not their job. 98% or 99% allows restaurants to be cost effective.

I want to revisit the concept of Control. This seems to be at the heart of all your complaints. When you go to a restaurant you arent buying a prostitute. You arent buying a slave. You are purchasing an experience. By its nature this arrangement involves giving up control. In fact what you are paying for is for someone elses interpretation of food.

The best restaurants only have a few items on their menu because the chef wants to provide an experience to you. The loss of control is part of the experience.

Finally I expect professional service not a slave, a professional in any occupation is able to anticipate the needs of the customer and meet them without needing specific direction. If I have to explain every detail of from how I want my forks arranged to how I want my drink refilled I might as do it myself. We pay these professionals to take care of our needs.

[pylon]

I am going to post this again:

Springs1 why do you never respond to any posts that address your mental health? Is there something you are hiding from us? Please answer this question truthfully. Have you ever been diagnosed with a mental illness/disorder? And what are they? Also are you on any medications for them?

If you are a religious woman, please answer the question with god as your witness. Also if you do not answer this question, I will assume the answer is yes to both questions.

Please answer the question. You are completely anonymous here, and it may shed some light on why you do this.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Springs1

I have had servers that said......blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

**SNIP**

I'm sorry. I was just irritated that you can't see my point of what I am trying to say.

I could feed my dog alphabet soup and he could crap out a more cogent and succinct response from his arsehole, than anything you will ever come out with. And you'd tip him nicely for it.

Also? You have no point. Go away now, and seek some mental health help, and urgently.

[strombad]

I also wonder this:
If a server is not a mind reader, then how is the server supposed to know ahead of time all the outlandish demands Springs makes?

Springs, why don't you just sit down with a list of instructions for your server at the get-go? That way you would always have an optimal dining experience, instead of dangling a tip as a way of controlling these people? You're abusive. Be a kind, respectful person and *****TELL YOUR SERVER WHAT YOU WANT****** because that would fix all your problems. Smart up, just tell them what you want and don't want at the start, problem solved.

That way you can stop rambling like the OCD tyrant that you are. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who has ever had to wait on you, you sound like one of the worst.

[normtwofinger]

My sister in law (Canadian) was in New Orleans for 6 months for work. She said she either you get incredible service or really unprofessional and rude service. There was no middle ground. And many restaurants had high turnover. We also experienced this when we visited.

So if Springs1 is mostly dining in New Orleans, I could believe she experiences more than usual bad service.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by normtwofinger

My sister in law (Canadian) was in New Orleans for 6 months for work. She said she either you get incredible service or really unprofessional and rude service. There was no middle ground. And many restaurants had high turnover. We also experienced this when we visited.

So if Springs1 is mostly dining in New Orleans, I could believe she experiences more than usual bad service.

This still doesn't justify spending over a decade of her life ranting the exact same futile rant. This woman's dying words will be "more..... ranch." She is mentally fixated on this thing. If you have been getting such bad service for so long. Stop going to restaurants, or better yet, open your own that fixes all these so-called miscarriages of culinary justice. Problem solved.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by normtwofinger

My sister in law (Canadian) was in New Orleans for 6 months for work. She said she either you get incredible service or really unprofessional and rude service. There was no middle ground. And many restaurants had high turnover. We also experienced this when we visited.



So if Springs1 is mostly dining in New Orleans, I could believe she experiences more than usual bad service.

Sure, that could be true.

But one of her main problems is with free refills, so let's not go giving benefit of the doubt.

[malcolmk14]

I serve through the winter as a means of getting myself through school. I try to treat every table I approach with respect, because I hope that they will respect me back enough to not make my 60-90 minutes I'm about to spend with them total hell.

Most people are respectful and a real pleasure to get to know, I've actually met quite a few people at my tables that I've kept in contact with for professional reasons. But every once in a while there are people who treat me like I'm dirt. It doesn't happen often, two or three times this winter that come to mind, but when it does happen I just can't believe that someone could speak to another human being in that way without provocation.

Springs1, just please try to remember, the people serving you are humans. They are doing their best to make your experience enjoyable. Sometimes they make mistakes and they deserve to be spoken to as equals. I always choose my words very carefully when interacting with service staff because I think the guest has some responsibility to contribute to the dining experience and help create an atmosphere where the server wants to come back to the table.