[Trade] Oilers trade Smid and Olivier Roy to Flames for Horak and Brossoit

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Dagger

If you want to use the home analogy, I'd say it's equally as rude to treat a new person with as little respect as this guy is getting. He's really been unfairly jumped. This isn't directed at you Jiri, but the community that has "welcomed" him.

An oiler fan comes to the board to criticize a Flame using advanced stats. The reaction I would say is entirely expected.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by greentree

Oilers have called up Horak.

Funny enough, that's what caused the last 2 pages of this mess.

Looks like the Oilers air has already infected him. Poor, poor Roman.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

An oiler fan comes to the board to criticize a Flame using advanced stats. The reaction I would say is entirely expected.

An Oilers fan? That's a load.

Thanks for the warm welcome chief. I appreciate how only one person on this thread that has criticized my viewpoint has even attempted to address the evidence I have offered.

Is Smid really that freaking good that simply referring to him as an "average third paring defensemen" automatically makes me an Oilers fan? That is pure garbage.

If Smid is soooo much more than that, how come not one team was willing to give up a legit NHL player, or a strong prospect to acquire him? Were the Flames the only team in the world that have scouted Smid correctly? Are the Flames the only team in the NHL that needed another NHL calibre defensemen?

Of course not. I think they got him because Burke felt they were a little soft on the backend and could use a guy to throw some weight around and kill some penalties. I happen to agree with that, and I will reiterate, I thought it was a fine move.

But I guess I'm an Oilers fan. Whatever.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by moon

Smid is not a shutdown guy at all. Just because defense is the best part of his game does not make him a shutdown guy. His foot speed is much too slow and he has a bad sense of positioning.

He does block shots, hits and is a fake tough guy but is not a shutdown guy at all unless you want a bottom 5 defense in the league.

Smid is a shutdown guy. Just because he's not elite at it doesn't mean that isn't his job. He isn't in the NHL because of his amazing foot speed and 100mph shot. So what would you call him then?

You hated him before he even set foot in Calgary and I think if he played like Lidstrom you'd still find a way to hate him.

And a fake tough guy? He isn't trying to be tough he is just trying to stick up for teammates even if it means he gets his ass kicked. He has more heart than any Flames defensemen not named Gio and is the only one to do something when our goalie gets touched.

He is -2 in 19 games as a Flame on one of the worst defences in the NHL. He is playing just the way we expected him to play and some. Smid is all heart and a good shutdown defenseman.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

An Oilers fan? That's a load.

Thanks for the warm welcome chief. I appreciate how only one person on this thread that has criticized my viewpoint has even attempted to address the evidence I have offered.

Is Smid really that freaking good that simply referring to him as an "average third paring defensemen" automatically makes me an Oilers fan? That is pure garbage.

If Smid is soooo much more than that, how come not one team was willing to give up a legit NHL player, or a strong prospect to acquire him? Were the Flames the only team in the world that have scouted Smid correctly? Are the Flames the only team in the NHL that needed another NHL calibre defensemen?

Of course not. I think they got him because Burke felt they were a little soft on the backend and could use a guy to throw some weight around and kill some penalties. I happen to agree with that, and I will reiterate, I thought it was a fine move.

But I guess I'm an Oilers fan. Whatever.

Do you have the memory of a goldfish?

Get lost troll

What did you mean by "WE" when referring to Smid and the Flames-Oilers trade?

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Great might be a bit of a strong word.

Smid is a medicore bottom pairing guy getting paid at market rates. I think it was a fine addition for a defensive starving team, and we didn't lose anything we are likely to regret long term. It was a minor transaction that fit the need of both teams, the way trade are supposed to work.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Do you have the memory of a goldfish?

Get lost troll

What did you mean by "WE" when referring to Smid and the Flames-Oilers trade?

I meant the Flames. Sorry, don't consider Horak, and our 4th best goalie prospect (at best) much long term.

Hence why I thought it was an adequate trade for "our" Flames.

Again, just don't see all the hatred towards me here. I was fine with the trade and think Smid is an adequate NHL defensemen. Just don't see him as a core block. Sorry if that offends you.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

I meant the Flames. Sorry, don't consider Horak, and our 4th best goalie prospect (at best) much long term.

Hence why I thought it was an adequate trade for "our" Flames.

Again, just don't see all the hatred towards me here. I was fine with the trade and think Smid is an adequate NHL defensemen. Just don't see him as a core block. Sorry if that offends you.

It doesn't offend me. You're a liar and a butthurt Oiler fan. But don't worry Mac-T has something special in store for you and the rest of your sheep friends. Baaaaahhhhhhhhh They're building something special, just wait!

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Again, just don't see all the hatred towards me here.

Even if you're not an Oilers fan, you sure as hell bark like one.

[JiriHrdina]

Cap space. That's what the Flames had that most other teams did not

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Even if you're not an Oilers fan, you sure as hell bark like one.

And his last name really is "BAIT-MAN".

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Cap space. That's what the Flames had that most other teams did not

Smid makes about $3M. Assuming a new team would have to remove roughly a 1M player from their roster to acquire Smid, based on cap geek there are literally 6 teams who did not have the space to add Smid.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

And his last name really is "BAIT-MAN".

Obvious troll is obvious.

Seen American Psycho before? Very popular movie.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

I do when they punch me in the face halfway through the doorstep.

Watch out, the "blame the victim" crowd will be all over this

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

My friend said that, not me!



How about everyone knocking the new guy for simply having a contradictory opinion (and stated in a respectful manner with relevent evidence)?



Is that considered cool here? If so, I will be glad to end my participation. It seemed from reading this board there were a lot of passionate fans that wanted to learn each other's opinions and discuss Flames hockey in a respectful way.



I'm reconsidering that opinion after the rude welcome I have been given.

Oh brother, get over yourself. You come in, state an opinion that is obviously going to inspire reaction one way or another with the direct intent of doing so, use advanced stats to make your point (which pretty much every respectable hockey mind takes note of as 'part of the puzzle' but certainly not something that you link to if you're trying to prove a point) and then get upset when people adamantly disagree and tell them they should "educated themselves".

Your manner was not respectful, nor was your evidence relevant. You told people they should educate themselves before responding to you (which comes off as arrogant and condescending) and you used advanced stats, which are hardly relevant.

Show respect, and you'll get respect. Complaining that people aren't responding the way you want and being overly dramatic isn't showing respect to the community, nor is quoting your "friend" who happened to say something negative about the community.

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

It was a hyperbole. Relax.



But it was more in reference to the 10 people who made zero attempt to properly characterize my opinion, and instead have tried to belittle me and put words on my mouth.



I find that odd for a message board where the intent is to learn other's opinions and thoughts. I get the feeling that nobody has any intent to listen to a perhaps valid criticism of Smid.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

It doesn't offend me. You're a liar and a butthurt Oiler fan. But don't worry Mac-T has something special in store for you and the rest of your sheep friends. Baaaaahhhhhhhhh They're building something special, just wait!

I find the Oilers as amusing as anyone.

If anything my second team are the Blackhawks (sue me, I grew up in Chicago but moved to Calgary in my early teens). If I was a fair weather fan or troll I would just jump that bandwagon. Trust me, the Oilers aren't on my radar. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have been making fun of their best d-man (Petry - who is awful). Watching the Oilers is just hilarious.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

If Smid is soooo much more than that, how come not one team was willing to give up a legit NHL player, or a strong prospect to acquire him? Were the Flames the only team in the world that have scouted Smid correctly? Are the Flames the only team in the NHL that needed another NHL calibre defensemen?

Of course not. I think they got him because Burke felt they were a little soft on the backend and could use a guy to throw some weight around and kill some penalties. I happen to agree with that, and I will reiterate, I thought it was a fine move.
.

You are forgetting at the time of the trade that two thirds of the league had less than a million in cap space or less than a million in LTIR. Most of the other teams would have to had salary going back to Edmonton.

Edmonton was pretty much at the cap and it has been explained many times in this thread that they were over the bonus cushion and why they had to dump Smid to sign Bryzgalov.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

An Oilers fan? That's a load.

Thanks for the warm welcome chief. I appreciate how only one person on this thread that has criticized my viewpoint has even attempted to address the evidence I have offered.

Is Smid really that freaking good that simply referring to him as an "average third paring defensemen" automatically makes me an Oilers fan? That is pure garbage.

If Smid is soooo much more than that, how come not one team was willing to give up a legit NHL player, or a strong prospect to acquire him? Were the Flames the only team in the world that have scouted Smid correctly? Are the Flames the only team in the NHL that needed another NHL calibre defensemen?

Of course not. I think they got him because Burke felt they were a little soft on the backend and could use a guy to throw some weight around and kill some penalties. I happen to agree with that, and I will reiterate, I thought it was a fine move.

But I guess I'm an Oilers fan. Whatever.

I remember you offering up the existence of evidence, but being too lazy to provide it. If you expect others to do your Googling, then perhaps it is you who is not cut out for this "internet" thing.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Smid makes about $3M. Assuming a new team would have to remove roughly a 1M player from their roster to acquire Smid, based on cap geek there are literally 6 teams who did not have the space to add Smid.

3.5 cap hit. Oilers didn't want any cap back
It was a salary dump the Flames were in position to take advantage of. This is all well known

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by strombad

Oh brother, get over yourself. You come in, state an opinion that is obviously going to inspire reaction one way or another with the direct intent of doing so, use advanced stats to make your point (which pretty much every respectable hockey mind takes note of as 'part of the puzzle' but certainly not something that you link to if you're trying to prove a point) and then get upset when people adamantly disagree and tell them they should "educated themselves".

Your manner was not respectful, nor was your evidence relevant. You told people they should educate themselves before responding to you (which comes off as arrogant and condescending) and you used advanced stats, which are hardly relevant.

Show respect, and you'll get respect. Complaining that people aren't responding the way you want and being overly dramatic isn't showing respect to the community, nor is quoting your "friend" who happened to say something negative about the community.

I told them to educate themselves on my opinion. As in to simply try to understand my opinion before slamming me. That's all I meant.

Advanced stats not relevant? They certainly are discussion worthy. I didn't see say it was the be all end all. I simply used it to reinforce an opinion. Doesn't mean I'm right, just saying that opinion has some validity and it is worthy of consideration. Most refused to do that. If the evidence was so irrelevant than it should be quite easy to refute them. Only one guy even tried and everyone else simply decided to call me a troll. The one guy who tried "thanked" my post, he obviously didn't think I was being over the top in the discussion.

[Red John]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Smid makes about $3M. Assuming a new team would have to remove roughly a 1M player from their roster to acquire Smid, based on cap geek there are literally 6 teams who did not have the space to add Smid.

Perhaps the reason most think you are an Oilers fan is because you are so adept at spinning numbers. Smid makes ABOUT $3 million? Actually his cap hit is $3.5M. You're changing numbers now…sort of like Oilers fans who change the start date on their rebuild every year.

And forget about the part where teams would have to include $1million of cap going the other way, just to fit your argument. The Oilers didn't want to take salary back because they are a cap team. The Flames were one of the only teams in the NHL that were able to take Smid without sending back coin. Horak's AHL salary notwithstanding.

In the spirit of this thread, someone else can do the research for me, but wasn't there a poster a while back who claimed to be a Hawks fan but showed up to defend the Oilers and then was banned?

Looks like your entire "I'm new here and nobody likes me" shtick is BS too.