[Trade] Oilers trade Smid and Olivier Roy to Flames for Horak and Brossoit

[Sylvanfan]

I have put a bit of thought into this deal, and it's really going to depend on what the Flames get back with Smid. If he is in fact a legitimate top 4 defenseman than it's a fantastic deal.

But I do sort of wonder if Smid maybe is a bit more Jim Vandermeer as opposed to a real top 4 guy. In that case the Flames just took on an expensive 5-6 guy with a lot of term left on his contract. Smid did seem to play okay to me the past 3 seasons for the Oilers, but I don't watch them that intently. On first glance it would appear that he wasn't really working out so well with Eakins this year.

The guy has known nothing but losing since coming to the NHL, and I do remember when he was sent down at the start of the 07-08 season how much of a laugh that gave most of the posters on this site. So he likely does need the change of scenery, but is coming to a team like Calgary who look to be a loser for the next 2 plus seasons what he needs? He does seem to fill a need with the team in terms of a bigger stay at home type defenceman with a history of playing some minutes. Than again, is he able to play that role effectively?

In terms of what went out, I think at this point the likes of Horak and Brossoit have less value to the Flames today than they would have 12 months ago. So if the Flames hold these players for another season, perhaps their value continues to decrease to the organization as other pieces start challenging them and as other teams realize this they don't offer anything but lower round picks for them. As a team starts to build better system depth, sometimes it is wise to move out players while they still have decent value. There have been a few teams cast guys off for nothing who didn't fit in their organization only to go on and excel at the next destination. At least the Flames did get something out of these two.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Horak has a goal for OKC already:

Good for him, hope he has a career year and the greasers finish in 10th.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I have put a bit of thought into this deal, and it's really going to depend on what the Flames get back with Smid. If he is in fact a legitimate top 4 defenseman than it's a fantastic deal.

But I do sort of wonder if Smid maybe is a bit more Jim Vandermeer as opposed to a real top 4 guy. In that case the Flames just took on an expensive 5-6 guy with a lot of term left on his contract. Smid did seem to play okay to me the past 3 seasons for the Oilers, but I don't watch them that intently. On first glance it would appear that he wasn't really working out so well with Eakins this year.

The guy has known nothing but losing since coming to the NHL, and I do remember when he was sent down at the start of the 07-08 season how much of a laugh that gave most of the posters on this site. So he likely does need the change of scenery, but is coming to a team like Calgary who look to be a loser for the next 2 plus seasons what he needs? He does seem to fill a need with the team in terms of a bigger stay at home type defenceman with a history of playing some minutes. Than again, is he able to play that role effectively?

In terms of what went out, I think at this point the likes of Horak and Brossoit have less value to the Flames today than they would have 12 months ago. So if the Flames hold these players for another season, perhaps their value continues to decrease to the organization as other pieces start challenging them and as other teams realize this they don't offer anything but lower round picks for them. As a team starts to build better system depth, sometimes it is wise to move out players while they still have decent value. There have been a few teams cast guys off for nothing who didn't fit in their organization only to go on and excel at the next destination. At least the Flames did get something out of these two.

Big difference between a loser franchise and a team that has more losses than wins.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The Edmonton Management Group fixing the Oilers is like watching my dad fix a network server with Windows NT. My dad would hammer on the keyboard while yelling, I'm helping I'm helping. But you know that its not going to get fixed.

Mac-T and Kevin Lowe and Dallas Eakins are literally hammering on the Oilers while drunkenly slurring "We're doing something see, we're helping, so love us".

It will be a dark day for Flames fans if the Oilers ever gas the old boys club and bring in someone with half a clue. The Oilers are making the Flames rebuild bearable.

Actually, I genuinely enjoy watching two competitive Alberta teams play one another in important games. Rivalries aren't fun if one of the teams is absolutely useless. And the Canucks, Sharks, etc. just don't cut it as rivals in my books.

If/when the Flames and Oilers both manage to ice top-notch teams, we'll essentially get five playoff-intensity games sprinkled through the regular season.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I have put a bit of thought into this deal, and it's really going to depend on what the Flames get back with Smid. If he is in fact a legitimate top 4 defenseman than it's a fantastic deal.

But I do sort of wonder if Smid maybe is a bit more Jim Vandermeer as opposed to a real top 4 guy. In that case the Flames just took on an expensive 5-6 guy with a lot of term left on his contract. Smid did seem to play okay to me the past 3 seasons for the Oilers, but I don't watch them that intently. On first glance it would appear that he wasn't really working out so well with Eakins this year.

The guy has known nothing but losing since coming to the NHL, and I do remember when he was sent down at the start of the 07-08 season how much of a laugh that gave most of the posters on this site. So he likely does need the change of scenery, but is coming to a team like Calgary who look to be a loser for the next 2 plus seasons what he needs? He does seem to fill a need with the team in terms of a bigger stay at home type defenceman with a history of playing some minutes. Than again, is he able to play that role effectively?

In terms of what went out, I think at this point the likes of Horak and Brossoit have less value to the Flames today than they would have 12 months ago. So if the Flames hold these players for another season, perhaps their value continues to decrease to the organization as other pieces start challenging them and as other teams realize this they don't offer anything but lower round picks for them. As a team starts to build better system depth, sometimes it is wise to move out players while they still have decent value. There have been a few teams cast guys off for nothing who didn't fit in their organization only to go on and excel at the next destination. At least the Flames did get something out of these two.

I understand that the hits and to a lesser extent blocked shots are somewhat subjective statistics (as are a lot of Face offs and 2nd assists) but Smid was so far ahead of the rest of the Oilers in Hits that it indicates a certain talent and quality that separates him from Van Boxmeer and basically any other d-man the flames have had since Phanuef was traded..... (including Regehr).



If hitting was so easy and just based on determination then players like Nystrom, Bouma, Comeau would definitely try to become Clutterbucks.

As for blocked shots Smid, over the last 3 seasons, has blocked more shots than the Flames shot blocking machine Giordano - 421 to 413.


Smid is a realistic replacement for Regehr.... The Flames have a hole in their line up that they had tried to patch with Hannan and this year with O'Brien.

Maybe Smid has been wrecked from playing with the Oilers but he is exactly fits the D-man the Flames have been missing.

I see Smid (paired with Gio or Wideman) being the default d-man on the ice with a one goal lead with 10 minutes left in the game. One heck of an upgrade on Butler.

Have to give Smid extra credit for playing his game with very little back side protection from the smurfs in Edmonton.


I could see Gio's physical game drop off last year when he was the only Flame D-man that actually would hit and drop the gloves if necessary. A lot easier playing tough as part of a gang.

[Willi Plett]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's times like these that I just love the fact we do prospect rankings. So easy to discredit two players traded to the Oilers, but when you can look back to July and August and see they were ranked 11th and 17th on the prospect list it isn't a stretch to say the Flames dealt two second tier prospects for a top four dman.

I've been away all weekend so I'm sure this has been said ... but I can't for the life of me understand this from an Oilers perspective. They must really really like one of the two Calgary players because their D is thin and Smid was one of the only sure thing defenders they had.

Tanking?

But on the same day they go out and add to goaltending?

So strange.

Paging Sidney Crosby's Hat for comment please.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I have put a bit of thought into this deal, and it's really going to depend on what the Flames get back with Smid. If he is in fact a legitimate top 4 defenseman than it's a fantastic deal.

But I do sort of wonder if Smid maybe is a bit more Jim Vandermeer as opposed to a real top 4 guy. In that case the Flames just took on an expensive 5-6 guy with a lot of term left on his contract. Smid did seem to play okay to me the past 3 seasons for the Oilers, but I don't watch them that intently. On first glance it would appear that he wasn't really working out so well with Eakins this year.

The guy has known nothing but losing since coming to the NHL, and I do remember when he was sent down at the start of the 07-08 season how much of a laugh that gave most of the posters on this site. So he likely does need the change of scenery, but is coming to a team like Calgary who look to be a loser for the next 2 plus seasons what he needs? He does seem to fill a need with the team in terms of a bigger stay at home type defenceman with a history of playing some minutes. Than again, is he able to play that role effectively?

In terms of what went out, I think at this point the likes of Horak and Brossoit have less value to the Flames today than they would have 12 months ago. So if the Flames hold these players for another season, perhaps their value continues to decrease to the organization as other pieces start challenging them and as other teams realize this they don't offer anything but lower round picks for them. As a team starts to build better system depth, sometimes it is wise to move out players while they still have decent value. There have been a few teams cast guys off for nothing who didn't fit in their organization only to go on and excel at the next destination. At least the Flames did get something out of these two.

Jim Vandermeer? Are you freaking kidding me? Not at all comparable players. Vandermeer was a #6-#8 guy for most of his career. Smid has been more like a #3-5 guy for most of his career with the Oil. Completely different magnitude of player.

I'm far from convinced that Horak and Brossoit were any more valuable a year ago either.

Usually I quite like your posts but this one is a real headscratcher.

[Erick Estrada]

Edmonton Journal when Smid was re-signed;

Make no mistake: this is a huge coup for the #Oilers. Smid was the only proven top-4 'D' under the age of 32 on the UFA market this summer.

I have actual Oiler fan buddies that were calling the Smid re-signing as a major bargain at the time as "he's a top 4 defenseman" this weekend all doing a complete 180 all saying the same thing that he's a 5th defender that was making too much money. LOL I love Oilers fans. Oilers fans and Rod Peterson never cease to provide me laughs.

Even Mark Spector chose to leave his spine at the door and say on the Fan today that Smid was a 5th defenseman getting overpaid today. There has to be money under the table going to Oilers media as the Flames would have got roasted by local media if the tables were turned.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Jim Vandermeer? Are you freaking kidding me? Not at all comparable players. Vandermeer was a #6-#8 guy for most of his career. Smid has been more like a #3-5 guy for most of his career with the Oil. Completely different magnitude of player.

I'm far from convinced that Horak and Brossoit were any more valuable a year ago either.

Usually I quite like your posts but this one is a real headscratcher.

Not to mention that Smid is only 27, which is like a coming of age for many defensive defensemen. He may have been a 3-5 for most of his career, but I can see him flirting on the top pairing on this team.

[Locke]

I'm going to quote myself from another thread.....

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Edmonton Journal when Smid was re-signed;

I have actual Oiler fan buddies that were calling the Smid re-signing as a major bargain at the time as "he's a top 4 defenseman" this weekend all doing a complete 180 all saying the same thing that he's a 5th defender that was making too much money. LOL I love Oilers fans. Oilers fans and Rod Peterson never cease to provide me laughs.

Even Mark Spector chose to leave his spine at the door and say on the Fan today that Smid was a 5th defenseman getting overpaid today. There has to be money under the table going to Oilers media as the Flames would have got roasted by local media if the tables were turned.

Originally Posted by Locke

I have a hard time believing that. Smid is no Pronger or anything, but hes a serviceable Top 4 defenceman.

Andrew Ference
Nick Schultz
Justin Schultz
Jeff Petry
Philip Larsen
Anton Belov
Taylor Fedun

Smid is paid more than all of them, the same as Nick Schultz, shudder at that concept. I cant pick 4 guys on that list I'd take over Smid. I might be able to pick one. And then I remember that Andy Ference is 34 and I'm back to zero.

Yeah....5th defenceman on that roster.....

[CaptainCrunch]

Nope they're right Smid is a fifth defensemean. Of course Petry and Belov are 6th, Ference is a 7th Justin Schultz isn't even a defenseman, and Nick Schultz is the teams hairdresser, and Philip Larson will be enjoying his first year of matriculation at the Cincinnati on line technical institute by next season.

.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Horak has a goal for OKC already:

OKC Barons Gameday‏@BaronsGameDay4m
OKLAHOMA CITY GOAL! Welcome to the #OKCBarons Roman Horak! Nice rebound goal at 1:46 to give the Barons a 2-1 lead.

I keep telling Oilers fans not to be surprised if Horak turns out to be the best player they received in the deal but they all think he was a throw in and will never play in the NHL for the Oilers. If he wasn't a 1st overall pick they tend to not have great knowledge about prospects.

[stemit14]

It's just a smart trade for the flames in every way. The comment above that defensive defensemen really come into their own at his age is bang on. His cap hit is negligible especially for a team like the flames. He didn't cost much to get considering the flames gave up guys that are a ways down the depth chart at this point with Reinhart, knight, and granlund ahead of Horak... Ortio and gillies are ahead of broissoit.

The flames address a need that everyone recognized and he's just getting into his prime. Plus he fits the identity that this team has adopted as a hard-working, shot-blocking, team-based defense.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by fotze

Actually looking at the stats he has being playing 6th D minutes this year. TOI/G might explain why they can't win.

Jeff Petry - 22:10
Justin Schultz - 22:01
Philip Larsen - 21:28
Andrew Ference - 20:32
Anton Belov - 19:22
Ladislav Smid - 17:53
Nick Schultz - 16:27
Taylor Fedun - 12:12
Denis Grebeshkov - 11:36

well you can probably take out Larsen ... only played 5 games as replacement for the injured Schultz, including the 2 games after the Smid trade. But anyway, pretty interesting that Smid isn't further up on that list. Lol at Belov playing close to 20 minutes.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by devo22

well you can probably take out Larsen ... only played 5 games as replacement for the injured Schultz, including the 2 games after the Smid trade. But anyway, pretty interesting that Smid isn't further up on that list. Lol at Belov playing close to 20 minutes.

Yet he was #2 for PK time among defensemen.

So obviously they thought fairly highly of him in that regard.

[Enoch Root]

Last year he was 3rd in ice-time and the prior year he was 4th.

In both cases, he averaged over 20 minutes per game.

What has been going on this year is an absolute mystery - Eakins is completely out of control and over his head.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Edmonton Journal when Smid was re-signed;



I have actual Oiler fan buddies that were calling the Smid re-signing as a major bargain at the time as "he's a top 4 defenseman" this weekend all doing a complete 180 all saying the same thing that he's a 5th defender that was making too much money. LOL I love Oilers fans. Oilers fans and Rod Peterson never cease to provide me laughs.

Even Mark Spector chose to leave his spine at the door and say on the Fan today that Smid was a 5th defenseman getting overpaid today. There has to be money under the table going to Oilers media as the Flames would have got roasted by local media if the tables were turned.

Similar to this, every Oiler fan I have had discussions with in the last 3 years has described Smid as equivalent to Giordano and a top 4 D on any team in the league.

While I don't agree with that, I do think he is maybe one step down from Giordano and I do think he is a top 4.

Suddenly now they are all back-peddling and saying he isn't playing well.

New system and a new coach that doesn't like him and what do the Oilers do? Run him out of town, bad-mouth him, and sell low.

They just keep doing this to players over and over.

[Stay Golden]

What number is Smid going to wear with the Flames?

[Burner]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

What number is Smid going to wear with the Flames?

three

[EYE_Overstand]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

What number is Smid going to wear with the Flames?

i believe 3