Black teen shot and killed by neighborhood watch in Orlando gated community

[Red Potato Standing By]

Now with all this said the law should be changed, it is unfortunate someone or more have to die to get it changed.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

You may be right but unarmed guys story in this thread seems to be based on nothing more then what each individual poster wants it to be to back up there theory of what actually happened: at least with other story there is some sort of basis of what probably happened.

Unarmed guy had no story! He's fricken dead. Do you get that? There is only 1 story, coincidentally from the one guy who killed the other guy.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Well that is unfortunate but that does not automatically makes armed guys story wrong

[Red Potato Standing By]

And besides didn't part of armed guy's story have witnesses?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

Was there not a witness of unarmed teenager on top of Z? I could be wrong I have been drinking so I could have read it wrong and there was no one witnessing the unarmed teenager on top mma style. And if I read it wrong my apologies.. Just seems more stuff backs armed guys story then unarmed guy's story. IMO

You have it correct.

It is a basic story. Guy (Zimmerman) sees someone in neighborhood who he thinks is suspicious (after multiple robberies and a home invasion) and calls the police. Guy follows suspicious guy and the police tell him not to. He complies and walks back towards car.

So called suspicious guy (Martin) is on phone with friend and says someone is following him. I forget the details, but decides to circle back. Martin was actually at a store and bought some candy and was walking to his dad's girlfriend's place.

All that is known next is that the guy is yelling for help while suspicious guy is mounting him and punching him in the face and bashing his head into sidewalk. Guy on the bottom fires one shot and kills him. One witness saw the fight and said the suspicious guy was attacking from on top.

Zimmerman had several police interviews (and later lie detectors) and several officers are satisfied with his version of the events, they are consistent and reasonable. There were a few minor issues, but officers say that is perfectly normal. The case is considered by the police a situation where someone defended them self, and the court case substantiated that. I think the most logical scenario is that Martin did not like the fact he was followed and circled back and confronted Zimmerman and then attacked him (which is what Zimmerman says). Besides the gun shot, there was no other wound on Martin (except for his bruised hands).

The police did a full investigation and decided there was no evidence of murder or homicide, it was cut and dry self defense.

Zimmerman detractors say his story is so good that he must have known how to lie and make up a story that would make him innocent, since he wants to be a cop. They also say Zimmerman killed him because he was black and that the police were racist for not pressing charges. There are assorted other zany stories that have no basis in fact.

None of the allegations against Zimmerman were based on any facts, they were a result of a smear campaign that people are having a hard time dropping.

On the other hand many people have also supported Zimmerman. Other American leaders have stepped up to say the issue is not racism, it is the fact violence is often a reasonable way of handling issues for youth. Calling this an issue of racism is a distraction from the real matter, why did Martin circle back for a confrontation instead of going inside the house he was headed for?

Crappy situation, but this racism thing is crazy and unfortunate. Where has everyone been while dozens are getting shot in Chicago? Just look up the Chicago Tribune, it is absolutely crazy how many shootings there are. The Zimmerman story could have been a good eye opener for the States to deal with the violence, instead this is about racism.

Sorry if I rambled, had a few beers.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

We've been through this. I made 2 distinctly separate points and you got confused.

Wrong, one of your points had nothing to do with me, yet you quoted me. And you never once responded to my point. Which I will remind you:

You said there was no police investigation and they were unprofessional. I provided evidence that suggested an investigation lasted over a month and the police still maintain it was a good investigation. A court case later proved their investigation was good. I also linked an interview which clearly proved the investigation took place. I asked you to show me something that said the interview did not take place, instead you continue writing things that pretty much make no sense.

So why would you lie or continue to deny an investigation took place?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

For the last time, Z was not 'on duty' when this occurred, he was on his way to the store. He saw what he thought was suspicious behavior, called the police and he got attacked. Z did nothing wrong except acted as a responsible home owner and a responsible member of his community.

On top of that, Z can do whatever he wants, he is free to do so, assuming he obeys the laws. Nothing he did warranted getting attacked.

Don't tell me, tell the people in this thread that keep referring to Zimmerman's "appointment" in the Neighbourhood Watch as if it makes him an authority on who should be free from suspicion and who shouldn't be. Zimmerman was free to act like an doosh bag, but he bears some responsibility for the outcome in that case.

So we agree then... my point was that he was not acting within the protocol of the Neighbourhood watch when he stalked and provoked that kid (following someone is a form of provocation).

No race, color, etc lead to TM's demise except for his own desire to get into a fight.

Oh, I didn't realize that you were there..

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Don't tell me, tell the people in this thread that keep referring to Zimmerman's "appointment" in the Neighbourhood Watch as if it makes him an authority on who should be free from suspicion and who shouldn't be. Zimmerman was free to act like an doosh bag, but he bears some responsibility for the outcome in that case.

Oh, I didn't realize that you were there..

In my experience, a lot of people are very quick to label someone suspicious. No one is an 'authority' on it, but people sure seem to think that they know who is and isn't suspicious.

Are you trying to imply that Zimmerman has no responsibility for what's happened? Most everyone I've been seeing agree that a fight was happening, and it takes two to fight. He has been found not criminally responsible, but he's going to be paying for this for the rest of his life.

This thread, and many like it that have sprung up around the 'net, make me feel like I missed a major sporting event to which everyone else had ringside seats. Everyone trying to argue from a position of authority, no one actually knowing anything.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

I find it interesting that Obama would make a comment on how Martin could have been him years ago. Why make a comment on this case? Why not make a comment on the 60 murders so far in Kansas City Missouri? Why not make a comment on the crime in the black community, and how Kansas City for the second year in a row has the worst black on black crime rate in the nation? Or isn't that politically correct? Why was Zimmerman's gun and situation different other than he got caught/turned himself in? POTUS should busy himself with the nation's problems, and avoid knocking on the hornet's nest with the race card. Things are already bad enough. He's playing with fire with his comments.

If you pay attention you'll see Obama bring up these type of stats all the time even using himself and his family living in Chicago as "what ifs". If anything Obama has tried to de-fuse the media driven racial part of this case from the start and hit the core problem. (gun laws)

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by T@T

If you pay attention you'll see Obama bring up these type of stats all the time even using himself and his family living in Chicago as "what ifs". If anything Obama has tried to de-fuse the media driven racial part of this case from the start and hit the core problem. (gun laws)

Maybe- however that's not how people here see it. Yesterday Charles Barkley said he agreed with the Zimmerman verdict and people went crazy, calling him an 'Uncle Tom' and a traitor. Obama shouldn't make comments on his perceived injustices to his own judicial system. Regardless of Obama's intentions (and I DO agree, gun laws ARE the problem in this situation, not racism), he's adding fuel to the racism fire that is burning bright in this divided country.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Wrong, one of your points had nothing to do with me, yet you quoted me. And you never once responded to my point. Which I will remind you:

You said there was no police investigation and they were unprofessional. I provided evidence that suggested an investigation lasted over a month and the police still maintain it was a good investigation. A court case later proved their investigation was good. I also linked an interview which clearly proved the investigation took place. I asked you to show me something that said the interview did not take place, instead you continue writing things that pretty much make no sense.

So why would you lie or continue to deny an investigation took place?

Show me where I said an interview never took place and where I denied an investigation took place

[fatso]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

That's my position. It's also my position that the President is making a bold statement against one of the three 'sacred' levels of our government- the judicial system. Not smart for POTUS in my opinion.

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

Obama should keep his mouth shut and respect the judicial system, and encourage this already divided country to do the same.

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

I find it interesting that Obama would make a comment on how Martin could have been him years ago. Why make a comment on this case? Why not make a comment on the 60 murders so far in Kansas City Missouri? Why not make a comment on the crime in the black community, and how Kansas City for the second year in a row has the worst black on black crime rate in the nation? Or isn't that politically correct? Why was Zimmerman's gun and situation different other than he got caught/turned himself in? POTUS should busy himself with the nation's problems, and avoid knocking on the hornet's nest with the race card. Things are already bad enough. He's playing with fire with his comments.

So you think the Harvard Law graduate, former constitutional law Prof, who has since devoted his like to public service - including serving in the highest office of the land - disrespects the judicial system and is willy-nilly trying to inflame tensions? Oh, and that he's not above pulling the 'race-card'. Is that right? Seriously?

I'm not saying you have to agree with him, but you might want to give the guy a little more credit than that. President Obama doesn't often speak on race (contrary to what some think) and, when he does, he's usually pretty thoughtful. You might want to re-read his comments in the context of him trying to offer healing words to the American community.

But, assuming I understand your interpretation of President's Obama's statement yesterday, why do you think he would have made such comments?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Show me where I said an interview never took place and where I denied an investigation took place

Start with post 1068, you know you are full of it.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Start with post 1068, you know you are full of it.

Just quote it, I'm not looking because I know it doesn't exist

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

In my experience, a lot of people are very quick to label someone suspicious. No one is an 'authority' on it, but people sure seem to think that they know who is and isn't suspicious.

Are you trying to imply that Zimmerman has no responsibility for what's happened? Most everyone I've been seeing agree that a fight was happening, and it takes two to fight. He has been found not criminally responsible, but he's going to be paying for this for the rest of his life.

This thread, and many like it that have sprung up around the 'net, make me feel like I missed a major sporting event to which everyone else had ringside seats. Everyone trying to argue from a position of authority, no one actually knowing anything.

Having to bear repercussions isn't the same as bearing responsibility. Beside, in the long run he stands to gain more than lose. He'll get talk show money, maybe even book money, plus he is already soliciting his "supporters" to send him money to pay for his defense. The short attention span of American society will all but ensure that people forget him sooner rather than later.

It's true that no one knows the whole story, which is one of the things I am taking exception to. The character assassination of Martin by some is way over the top. The kid is dead, and it has not been proven that he started anything, yet there seems to be a lot of people that think he had it coming. We'll never know his story.

Some people seem to think that a not-guilty verdict proves that Zimmerman's account is the true story, but those people need to look up "reasonable doubt" and furrow their brows a little harder. The outcome of this case does not substantiate Zimmerman's account by any means, but a lot of people seem to believe it proves that Martin was original aggressor. It only means that under the law, there was not enough evidence to disprove his defense. For the record, I agree with the verdict.

The other thing I take exception to is when people use his participation in a Neighbourhood Watch as some type of defense, or implies that he has additional qualifications or authority. As has been pointed out, he was acting outside of the Neighbourhood Watch program when he made the choices he did, so maybe it's about time people take that off the table. He was just one citizen spying on/watching/following another.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Having to bear repercussions isn't the same as bearing responsibility. Beside, in the long run he stands to gain more than lose. He'll get talk show money, maybe even book money, plus he is already soliciting his "supporters" to send him money to pay for his defense. The short attention span of American society will all but ensure that people forget him sooner rather than later.

True, and most of the people who I've seen supporting him haven't absolved him of the responsibility part of this tragedy.

It's true that no one knows the whole story, which is one of the things I am taking exception to. The character assassination of Martin by some is way over the top. The kid is dead, and it has not been proven that he started anything, yet there seems to be a lot of people that think he had it coming. We'll never know his story.

I don't know, I think that the character assassination on both sides is ridiculous and over the top.

The other thing I take exception to is when people use his participation in a Neighbourhood Watch as some type of defense, or implies that he has additional qualifications or authority. As has been pointed out, he was acting outside of the Neighbourhood Watch program when he made the choices he did, so maybe it's about time people take that off the table. He was just one citizen spying on/watching/following another.

To me, especially in my profession, Neighbourhood Watch doesn't mean anything. When people see suspicious stuff, they generally will report it, NW or not.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by fatso

So you think the Harvard Law graduate, former constitutional law Prof, who has since devoted his like to public service - including serving in the highest office of the land - disrespects the judicial system and is willy-nilly trying to inflame tensions? Oh, and that he's not above pulling the 'race-card'. Is that right? Seriously?

I'm not saying you have to agree with him, but you might want to give the guy a little more credit than that. President Obama doesn't often speak on race (contrary to what some think) and, when he does, he's usually pretty thoughtful. You might want to re-read his comments in the context of him trying to offer healing words to the American community.

But, assuming I understand your interpretation of President's Obama's statement yesterday, why do you think he would have made such comments?

Do you live in the US?

[RyZ]

As someone who didn't follow this case at all and knows very little about it, I must say that it is hard to take Trayvons side just because of the people who are already on that side. The top 20 most assinine posts in this thread are all emotional Trayvon supporters that aren't even discussing the topic(s) at hand, just ####ting up the thread with the same alleged and hypothetical crap over and over again.

It's like those anti abortion people holding up the grotesque signs on MacLoed Tr. Even if you identify with the cause, you would never want to be seen as being in support of those embarassing people and how they are trying to get the message across.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

I don't know, I think that the character assassination on both sides is ridiculous and over the top.

So you don't believe his family member who said he molested her? If that part is true, whatever anyone else is saying about him is hardly character assassination as child molester is pretty much the lowest point in humanity.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

Do you live in the US?

I do and I agree with him. Not sure what living in the US has anything to do with it.