There's a difference between offending someone and triggering someone. 1 in 3 women in Canada are victims of sexual assault. That means that there are women in everyone's life that this actually seriously affects. Being raped is highly traumatizing to the point that it can cause PTSD. A joke making fun of someone's accent is probably going to offend a lot of people, but it's much less likely than a rape joke to actually emotionally harm them.
Don't go to a comedy show. Nothing is off limits there. If youve experienced the sort of trauma that causes you to flash to something horrible when the subject is brought up, then this form of live entertainment is not for you.
I would also wonder why a show like SVU isn't tarred with this brush, since it's been doing commercially exploiting the drama of rape for nearly two decades. (I realise that's an over simplification)
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Rape affects a significant portion of the population.
I wonder if you'd still feel rape jokes are so funny if your wife, mother, sister, daughter were raped.
Don't think of it in the abstract. Think of how it impacts very real people.
So do jokes about cancer, abortion, and a long long list of things that could possibly trigger painful memories/experiences.
My point is not to go out looking to make rape jokes to random people, but when you go to a comedy show you should expect there is a good chance something joked about might be offensive, even emotionally hard to deal with.
I know people who have been raped, who doesn't. Its horrible, but comedy and humor is complex and something very personal to each individual. What is a trigger for one person is another person's favorite joke. So what I keep asking is what do you suggest, we ban a line of jokes, do we forbid this?
Comedy has ALWAYS pushed these lines and comedians take great risks for a laugh. I personally find that I deal with horrible situations often through comedy, others want to deal with it their own personal way, fine but what it always comes down to is what do you want, to pass laws against this? Shame comedians who dare touch sensitive subjects?
Who decides what is and is not offensive?
Its just not going to happen, and you can call me insensitive and misogynist and whatever else people will decide to judge me for, but I am not any of those things, I just love humor that shocks and challenges society in terms of what is ok to talk about and what is ok to mock.
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Anyhow everyone should see the Aristocrats documentary about the most offensive joke ever told, because its great and people like you need to chill the F out about comedy.
And that's just in bad taste. And besides the obvious, by "that" I'm also referring to Gilbert Gottfried being associated with fataing in any way, shape or form.
Jim Norton also always points out that for some reason it is okay in the movie industry for actors to portray rapists and you rarely (never?) hear of advertisers pulling out of movie deals because of such subjects. One would think that dramatizations of rape would have a much greater effect then a comic making a joke and referring to rape.
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Jim Norton also always points out that for some reason it is okay in the movie industry for actors to portray rapists and you rarely (never?) hear of advertisers pulling out of movie deals because of such subjects. One would think that dramatizations of rape would have a much greater effect then a comic making a joke and referring to rape.
The difference to me is that a rapist and/or rape in a movie is generally portrayed in a negative light. I don't think I've ever seen a movie where the rapist is a hero. Whereas in a rape joke it's "ha! Isn't rape/aren't rapists funny?" and so it's trivializing something serious that many women (and men) are effected by.
The difference to me is that a rapist and/or rape in a movie is generally portrayed in a negative light. I don't think I've ever seen a movie where the rapist is a hero. Whereas in a rape joke it's "ha! Isn't rape/aren't rapists funny?" and so it's trivializing something serious that many women (and men) are effected by.
I'm wondering though, is the question whether it's funny (entirely subjective), or whether it's tasteful?
Because I certainly don't think anyone is arguing that it's tasteful.
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The difference to me is that a rapist and/or rape in a movie is generally portrayed in a negative light. I don't think I've ever seen a movie where the rapist is a hero. Whereas in a rape joke it's "ha! Isn't rape/aren't rapists funny?" and so it's trivializing something serious that many women (and men) are effected by.
Jim Norton's point is that neither the victim, the Perp, nor the act itself are the punch line but a joke, with a reference to rape can still be a joke. More of like making a joke referring to rape as opposed to a rape joke, if that makes any sense. Still obviously offensive but that is Norton's thing.
I really have no view either way, but in the video, Jim Norton destroys that blogger, it doesn't matter which side of the debate you are on, you have to agree that he clearly won the debate portion, as for his side of it, the majority will never agree with. And he didn't have time to touch n two other topics she likely inadvertently brought up. One being he saying "dumb WHITE comedian" and the other was he use of the term D***.
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The difference to me is that a rapist and/or rape in a movie is generally portrayed in a negative light. I don't think I've ever seen a movie where the rapist is a hero. Whereas in a rape joke it's "ha! Isn't rape/aren't rapists funny?" and so it's trivializing something serious that many women (and men) are effected by.
No offense, but you are talking out of your ass. You said that the problem with rape jokes is that they could trigger a strong emotional response from someone that has been raped. See below:
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Originally Posted by bcsoda
Being raped is highly traumatizing to the point that it can cause PTSD. A joke making fun of someone's accent is probably going to offend a lot of people, but it's much less likely than a rape joke to actually emotionally harm them.
...and fair enough, this could very well be the case. But if someone is in such an emotional fragile state that a rape joke cause them harm, then a drama that graphically depicts the act of rape certainly isn't going to be okay simply because the rapist was depicted "in a negative light". Doesn't make any sense, so if you think rape should be off limits for comedians because of emotional damage it could cause to victims, then it should be off limits for everyone.
So do jokes about cancer, abortion, and a long long list of things that could possibly trigger painful memories/experiences.
My point is not to go out looking to make rape jokes to random people, but when you go to a comedy show you should expect there is a good chance something joked about might be offensive, even emotionally hard to deal with.
How many aborted fetuses have you seen taking in a comedy show? How many big tobacco executives or people who may become big tobacco executives do you think are in the average comedy club? Rape is different because, in almost every crowd, there will be both rapists (or potential future rapists) and rape victims. Also, rape is different that other common crimes like drunk driving because the victims of drunk drivers haven't been made to feel ashamed of being victims by society.
I'm not saying that rape should never be mentioned in comedy, but comedians should be at least be mindful of the audience in making sure that the rape victim isn't the punchline and that rape isn't trivialized.
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How many aborted fetuses have you seen taking in a comedy show? How many big tobacco executives or people who may become big tobacco executives do you think are in the average comedy club? Rape is different because, in almost every crowd, there will be both rapists (or potential future rapists) and rape victims. Also, rape is different that other common crimes like drunk driving because the victims of drunk drivers haven't been made to feel ashamed of being victims by society.
I'm not saying that rape should never be mentioned in comedy, but comedians should be at least be mindful of the audience in making sure that the rape victim isn't the punchline and that rape isn't trivialized.
But where do you draw the line? Someone is always going to be offended no matter what the joke is about. Like the SP guys said, it's either all okay, or none of it's okay.
If someone is offended by a joke, they can walk out of the club or change the channel. In my humble opinion, people are just looking for excuses to be mad at anything these days. Bunch of attention seeking whiners.
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The difference to me is that a rapist and/or rape in a movie is generally portrayed in a negative light. I don't think I've ever seen a movie where the rapist is a hero. Whereas in a rape joke it's "ha! Isn't rape/aren't rapists funny?" and so it's trivializing something serious that many women (and men) are effected by.
Show me a joke on this topic where the comedian is on the side of the rapist. And Daniel tosh doesn't count; shutting up a heckler with something she said as the basis for your retort is not the same as having a bit about it.
When you've found that joke, the definitively pro rape bit, then tell me the theatres that comic is performing at in the next six months.
I will reiterate that this is not and has never been about rape jokes themselves; it is about telling comedians what they can and cannot say. And if your answer is anything other than 'whatever you want', you wish to live in a different society than I do.
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There's a difference between offending someone and triggering someone. 1 in 3 women in Canada are victims of sexual assault. That means that there are women in everyone's life that this actually seriously affects. Being raped is highly traumatizing to the point that it can cause PTSD. A joke making fun of someone's accent is probably going to offend a lot of people, but it's much less likely than a rape joke to actually emotionally harm them.
I’m sure what happened to her was traumatizing, and I hate to sound callous, but it’s not my problem. If I want to go to a comedy club and pay good money to watch uncensored free speech, then I should be able to without some special interest group sticking their bitchy little noses in.
Show me a joke on this topic where the comedian is on the side of the rapist. And Daniel tosh doesn't count; shutting up a heckler with something she said as the basis for your retort is not the same as having a bit about it.
I think this is something I'd want to highlight.
Most jokes of this nature are written such that they don't point themselves as sympathetic to the rapist or condescending to the victim. Joking at the expense of the victim is a fairly sensitive issue and, as such, will be much more prone to outrage and concern than jokes made of the aggressor. And I think this is what Norton was going down the lines of, but didn't explicitly state: that problems will occur if the issue is trivialized and stated as an acceptable notion.
There are so many horrible things happening in this world and rape doesn't trump them. It stands with them. Humor is a protective shield that helps people heal and move on, and I am never going to pull punches just because someone would get all uppity over a joke.
Of course rape is horrible. Of course... But maybe.
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I think the biggest problem is that everyone thinks they're a comedian. You can get away with saying almost anything if you're funny about it, but Daniel Tosh and Michael Richards found out that you better be damn sure you're funny if you're going to talk about issues as sensitive as rape and lynching. Or at least you better be funny about it if you aren't hiding behind the anonymity of a computer screen, which allows you to be a jackass with no repercussions.
Louis CK manages to talk about rape while being funny, but 99% of the people out there do not. Here's Lindy West reading some of the comments that were directed to her after her fairly thoughtful appearance on Totally Biased. Really disgusting stuff.
Isn't asking Thor to imagine his wife mother sister, daughter getting raped as bad as a rape joke? There is actually more vitriol in that than an abstract rape joke.
I feel like anyone who attempts to rape Thor's wife mom or daughter will be regretting that decision more than any other party...
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