Our 6th Overall Pick: Elias Lindholm or Sean Monahan?

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by cowtown75

Logan Couture had 2 penalties in 48 games this year- is he soft ?

Running it through the algorithm now...

And the answer is: Yes!



Just kidding.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Canes GM said they are taking a forward this year:

http://www.canescountry.com/2013/5/2...ick-highlights

The team has no intention of trading up at the draft. After the top defenseman who will probably go at number one, they have the top five offensive players in the draft rated very closely and will be happy with whomever is available to them. "Number five could end up as being as good or better than number two

Judging by these comments i can see them taking Nichushkin.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Canes GM said they are taking a forward this year:

http://www.canescountry.com/2013/5/2...ick-highlights



Judging by these comments i can see them taking Nichushkin.

If Nichushkin is in the mix then there are 6 top forwards. In that case I wonder who they consider to not be a top 5 offensive talent? Presumably Monahan?

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by edslunch

If Nichushkin is in the mix then there are 6 top forwards. In that case I wonder who they consider to not be a top 5 offensive talent? Presumably Monahan?

That makes me think they're writing off Nichushkin due to the Russian factor. From everything that I've seen, most people seem to agree that Nichushkin is one of the four most offensively talented players in this draft, so I would think they'd either say there are 4 or 6 top forwards if they were counting him.

[nik-]

I still think it goes

Jones
MacKinnon
Drouin
Barkov
Lindholm

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by cowtown75

Logan Couture had 2 penalties in 48 games this year- is he soft ?

Yes.... He is a soft very talented scorer.


Are you saying that he is something other than a soft talented forward? How would you claim this?

Nothing wrong with being a soft talented scorer. Every team needs 2 or 3. But successful teams have a hard max of 3 of these players.

Williams on LA is also a soft talented scorer.... with a Stanley cup ring. Williams plays on on line with Dustin Brown and the kings have basically 11 other hard forwards

Williams will continue to play well no matter who the Kings play because there are enough hard forwards to allow him to do what he does best.

When the Sharks get to play a team a bit tougher than the Canucks they will have to depend on Torres and Wingels to carry the team..... ( hint they won't)


The Flames have emptied the cupboard of tough forwards. They have loaded up on soft talented guys..... Even if Lindholm is extremely talented he will not be successful on a small soft team ..... (Edmonton, Calgary).

To argue that a guy who is so disengaged physically that he only takes 1 minor penalty in 50 games is not soft is incredulous.

Even a guy like Conroy who was a soft forward was involved in the play enough to take some penalities... If a player does not take at least a few penalties I don't see how he can be involved and competing at a level that helps his team win.



If the Flames do draft Lindholm and he is NHL ready in 2014-15 who will be his linemates? What will it cost the Flames to pick up Dustin Brown? Keep in mind that Baertschi has to be protected as well.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Yes.... He is a soft very talented scorer.


Are you saying that he is something other than a soft talented forward? How would you claim this?

Nothing wrong with being a soft talented scorer. Every team needs 2 or 3. But successful teams have a hard max of 3 of these players.

Williams on LA is also a soft talented scorer.... with a Stanley cup ring. Williams plays on on line with Dustin Brown and the kings have basically 11 other hard forwards

Williams will continue to play well no matter who the Kings play because there are enough hard forwards to allow him to do what he does best.

When the Sharks get to play a team a bit tougher than the Canucks they will have to depend on Torres and Wingels to carry the team..... ( hint they won't)


The Flames have emptied the cupboard of tough forwards. They have loaded up on soft talented guys..... Even if Lindholm is extremely talented he will not be successful on a small soft team ..... (Edmonton, Calgary).

To argue that a guy who is so disengaged physically that he only takes 1 minor penalty in 50 games is not soft is incredulous.

Even a guy like Conroy who was a soft forward was involved in the play enough to take some penalities... If a player does not take at least a few penalties I don't see how he can be involved and competing at a level that helps his team win.



If the Flames do draft Lindholm and he is NHL ready in 2014-15 who will be his linemates? What will it cost the Flames to pick up Dustin Brown? Keep in mind that Baertschi has to be protected as well.

[Phaneufenstein]

Ricardo's obsession with "hard" hockey players is a little disturbing

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If the Flames do draft Lindholm and he is NHL ready in 2014-15 who will be his linemates? What will it cost the Flames to pick up Dustin Brown? Keep in mind that Baertschi has to be protected as well.

Instead of going out and getting a Vet such as Brown, I would rather draft someone to fill the need. I've already said "Mantha" a number of times but a big 6'4" Winger, drafted in the same year, would hopefully make the team with Lindholm in 2014 and, assuming they complement each other, give us our future top line.

I would also target Morin with this specific thinking of needing size+skill in our prospect pool.

I know it sounds very Sutter-ish to want to target these guys but it sounds like they are big body players who have legit skill to become NHLers. I would rather get a big skilled guy like Mantha than a small skilled guy like Petan.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Loyal and True

I am hoping Cgy has #6, #21 and #30. Then I could see a few options to trade up, but I am not sure if it is worth it.

TB could trade #3 and #33 for three first rounders #6, #21 and #30.

I have no doubt that Carolina would trade #5 and #35 for three first rounders #6, #21 and #30. That's not worth it in my opinion.

Nsh would likely trade #4 (they have no other picks in first 2 rounds) for three first rounders #6, #21 and #30

To be honest, I might prefer to keep 3 picks and hope that #6 (in particular) ends up being a very good player. Then see how the other 2 first rounders develop.

I'm on the keep all 3 picks boat as well. All one has to do is look at previous draft lists and see that there were many great players picked in the later parts of round 1. Just because we trade up to the top 5 doesn't guarantee anything. All that guarantees us is a great player picked top 5...and that's it.

#6 pick, 1st rounder, 1st rounder > top 5 pick, no other 1st round picks

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

Back at you

I am beginning to understand that some Flames fans want to follow the Oiler's plan for success.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Back at you

I am beginning to understand that some Flames fans want to follow the Oiler's plan for success.

Please, you are far and away the most one dimensional thinking individual on these forums.

The PIM = grit train of thought alone is enough, but it spills over to just about every other thing you think you think.

Do you even read what you write?

[Max Cow Disease]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Instead of going out and getting a Vet such as Brown, I would rather draft someone to fill the need. I've already said "Mantha" a number of times but a big 6'4" Winger, drafted in the same year, would hopefully make the team with Lindholm in 2014 and, assuming they complement each other, give us our future top line.

I would also target Morin with this specific thinking of needing size+skill in our prospect pool.

I know it sounds very Sutter-ish to want to target these guys but it sounds like they are big body players who have legit skill to become NHLers. I would rather get a big skilled guy like Mantha than a small skilled guy like Petan.

Based upon my time in the Back-Burner forum, Mantha sounds like one of the "smallest" big men available in the draft. Doesn't play anywhere near his size, and it sounds like his compete has been questioned.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Yes.... He is a soft very talented scorer.


Are you saying that he is something other than a soft talented forward? How would you claim this?

.

Couture is a very high character and highly competitive leader with a great skillset; as far from soft as they come. He pays the price... to score , defend, make a play... will block shots and anything else that it takes to win.

What an utterly ridiculous statement....to say that he is soft.

I am claiming this because of watching him extensively since he became an NHL player.

[mikeecho]

There's plenty of soft players that take lots of (usually cheap, lazy) penalties. Does that make them hard? I guess if PIM is the standard.

[ricardodw]

I will try a different approach.


Would the Oiler's adding Lindholm considerably improve their talent pool , chances of making the playoffs and winning the SC???


How much harder are the Flames to play against than the Oilers? (answer: not any harder than playing against the Oilers)


Put yourself in the Oiler's position..... If the draft goesJones, Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov as expected

That leaves Lindholm, Nurse, Nichushkin and Monahan available...


IF Nurse and Monahan were gone would they bother picking Linholm or Nichushkin???

Where would they fit in with the Oilers... Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakapov, Gagner,..... so they would be back up if 2 of the Oilers 5 superstars got injured????

The oilers adding yet another soft talented forward does not improve them at all.


If it doesn't help the oilers why will it help the Flames???


If Nurse and Monahan are gone when the Oiler's pick.... and they hang onto their pick they would be far better off taking Mantha ....

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

There's plenty of soft players that take lots of (usually cheap, lazy) penalties. Does that make them hard? I guess if PIM is the standard.

No it does not make them hard......


But a player who does not take any penalties is not competing hard enough.

Try to imagine that a player does not get involved enough not to trade slashing penalties a few times a year.

[dammage79]

Mantha is projecting to be the softest forward in the draft but you insist on calling him tougher than Lindholm because of PIM? So its only soft players who win the Byng? Francis, Sakic and Datsyuk say hello. And if that is the kind of "soft" player the Flames will get then I am all for taking such a soft player. Same goes for Logan Couture, If our draft picks ends up as soft as him, then good.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Canes GM said they are taking a forward this year:

http://www.canescountry.com/2013/5/2...ick-highlights



Judging by these comments i can see them taking Nichushkin.

after hearing the whole interview, it sounds like they are going after a center so they don't need to move Skinner to the middle

[timbit]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

No it does not make them hard......


But a player who does not take any penalties is not competing hard enough.

Try to imagine that a player does not get involved enough not to trade slashing penalties a few times a year.

You need to re-evaluate your thinking on "hard" and "tough" and "compete".

You probably think McGrattan is harder and tougher to play against than Couture.

Sad.