The Drive for 30th

[kyuss275]

I have to wish the flames win every game they play. I am not sure why?

I do realise that this team needs a top 5 pick bad, so if they lose they lose.

The main reason this team needs a top 5 pick this year is because the ownership refuses to do a rebuild. I think they will try a re-tool, but i don't think they are going to be able to get the type of players back, with what they have to offer, to make the team a Stanley Cup team. A top 5 pick is probably the only small chance they have at getting a franchise player.

I am probably in the minority on this ,but i have more faith in this management team and scouts at drafting than i do with them making trades with our small amount of veteran assets.

[pylon]

Play Patio Lanterns!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by pylon

I never said I don't like the kid. But it was a very risky pick, for a horrible team like the Flames, who need NHL ready players sooner, than later. There is no guarantee he even has to sign with us if he decides to pull the ole College loophole thingy.

Risky? Somewhat. But at least they swung for the fences and took a guy that has #1 centre upside. You know the position we've been trying to fill the entire time I've been a Flames fan, around 18 years.

Not sure why anybody would dislike the Jankowski pick. Big, skilled centreman who can skate. We should've taken more Jankowski types in the past 18 years and maybe we would've turned one of them into a #1 centre.

I'm not even sure Jankowski can pull a Justin Schultz, he's playing college already and Shultz went back for another year in the BCHL after being drafted. They are on different timelines. So worrying about him pulling a Schultz may be just a bit of paranoia. Someone with some CBA expertise should clear it up for us. I guess I can see why some might be skeptical about signing players after the Tom Erixon fiasco but Jankowski doesn't seem like the kind of kid who would pull that crap to get away from a Canadian team. I don't think worrying about signing him is a great reason to dislike the pick.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by pylon

What have those players done in the NHL to make you say that?

Brodie?

Who else?

Brodie was a Sutter pick. Feaster's had two drafts and picked Sven and Jankowski.

Not to mention Granlund, Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Brossoit who are all decent prospects.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by pylon

The point I am making Jiri, is we don't know if they (the current regime) have drafted well or not. There are no stats to back anything up. For all we know, nobody ever plays an NHL game.

And my point is there enough stuff to be upset and negative about without creating new ones.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I am probably in the minority on this ,but i have more faith in this management team and scouts at drafting than i do with them making trades with our small amount of veteran assets.

Count me in with that group as well. I don't have much worries about us drafting well with a top 8 pick this year.

On the other hand I have a lot of worries about how management and ownership will handle this trade deadline.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Ironic though that he hasn't helped the Avs much at all. I tend to think he wouldn't have made much of a difference with the Flames at least this season as the ship has been taking water all season and I don't think ROR was going to be able to come off his couch and plug it. Kind of crazy the Flames were willing to give up their first round pick for one more season of ROR under contract. This 'all-in' mentality of the organization needs to end and it needs to end right now.

I can't speak to the Av's but I think O'Reily would have been a huge addition to this team. He instantly adds so many elements we are sorely lacking. He would have been our best two-way forward as soon as he strapped on the skates.

Maybe not though, but I think he would have. Playoff team, nah probably not but not in where we are now.

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

I bet every team whose every drafted first overall thought that. They all got there by poor records and bad management. No one ever landed in last place and thought what a well managed team they had.

No ####.

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

That's an emotional response.

We don't have Milbury at the helm. I don't think they're going to trade Jokinen and Luongo for Kvasha and Parrish and then draft Dipietro.

When have the Flames screwed up a top 5 draft pick? Never. Because we've never had one. And the years we picked top 6 weren't exactly great years. Last time the Flames had a high pick in a great draft was Phaneuf and it sounds like Sutter insisted we take a defenseman if one of the top 3 was available. Lots of rumours that if they were all gone we would've taken Mike Richards which would've worked out fine. It's not like we took Jessiman top 15. Or traded down and took a bust (Pouliot) while Parise, Getzlaf, Richards, Perry, etc were on the board.

I fully understand all that. All I'm saying is that this franchise has a habit of breaking our hearts. It's not always the organization's fault, it just happens sometimes. I'm fairly confident if the Flames finish bottom 5, they will make a good pick. On the other hand, if they went off the board and took some kid no one has ever heard of, I would be pissed off, but not really surprised. That's my (and I suspect, Pylon's) point.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

This really sucks

So does reality

[pylon]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Brodie was a Sutter pick. Feaster's had two drafts and picked Sven and Jankowski.

Not to mention Granlund, Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Brossoit who are all decent prospects.

He was talking about Button's scouting.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn

I understand where Pylon is coming from. If ever there was a team that could screw up a seemingly sure thing, it's the Flames.

Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn

No ####.

Well if it's no crap, then your first post was just mindless whining.

[AC]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

1998 with the Sedins and then Atlanta and Stefan? I forget how that all shook out. Tampa had first overall and ended up trading out of the first entirely.

Good call. That 1999 draft was a MESS.

1. Vancouver traded Bryan McCabe + a 2000 or 2001 1st rounder to Chicago for the #4 draft pick.
2. Vancouver traded #4 overall + and two 3rd rounders to Tampa for the #1 overall pick.
3. Vancouver then traded the #1 overall pick to Atlanta for #2 and a conditional 3rd rounder.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by pylon

What have those players done in the NHL to make you say that?

Brodie?

Who else?

Brodie looks good. Backlund looks good. Despite the fact he forced a trade out the Erixon pick doesn't look like a total bust.

Too young to tell on the others but in my time of following prospects I think we have some with promise compared to the past. Reinhart, Gaudreau, Wotherspoon, Baertschi, and Jankowski all show a lot of promise IMO. And then we have a lot of decent looking guys in Brossoit, Ortio, Gillies, Ramage, Sieloff, Arnold, Granlund, etc. A few of those should turn out.

The biggest reason why we haven't hit many homeruns is the lack of top 10 picks in good years and a massive deficit in 2nd rounders. The Flames I believe are the team with the least 1st and 2nd rounders in the last 10 years. Button has not had a lot of high picks in the first two rounds to work with.

Maybe its just my optimistic nature but I think the system is as deep as its ever been in my time of following the Flames. The last few drafts don't look anywhere near as bad as a lot of the drafts in the late 90's and early 2000's.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by AC

Good call. That 1999 draft was a MESS.

1. Vancouver traded Bryan McCabe + a 2000 or 2001 1st rounder to Chicago for the #4 draft pick.
2. Vancouver traded #4 overall + and two 3rd rounders to Tampa for the #1 overall pick.
3. Vancouver then traded the #1 overall pick to Atlanta for #2 and a conditional 3rd rounder.

I don't think it would take two 3rds in this draft

the top 4 are all thought of as very good and it was a special case in that it was two twins that everyone knew Burke coveted

I think it's going to come down to personal preference

if someone for example really wants Jones, they would probably be willing to give up more to move to 1st overall to guarantee him ahead of the 3 forwards

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by pylon

He was talking about Button's scouting.

Ya, I realized that after, I kind of fused your general point about our management being crappy and scouting.

To be honest, their draft record isn't bad but I don't like Feaster's ability to manage assets.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Brodie was a Sutter pick. Feaster's had two drafts and picked Sven and Jankowski.

Not to mention Granlund, Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Brossoit who are all decent prospects.

A lot of the scouting staff is the same between the late Sutter regime and the Feaster regime so separating those two by the GM seems an arbitrary distinction. Feaster certainly isn't making the call on the picks. Sutter on the other hand may have meddled with Button's list for a few of the drafts, emphasizing a certain position over others (he seemed dead set on a defenseman in 2003).

[starseed]

I was under the impression that after the first few choices, this was a weak draft class. What is the current consensus?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

A lot of the scouting staff is the same between the late Sutter regime and the Feaster regime so separating those two by the GM seems an arbitrary distinction. Feaster certainly isn't making the call on the picks. Sutter on the other hand may have meddled with Button's list for a few of the drafts, emphasizing a certain position over others (he seemed dead set on a defenseman in 2003).

I don't think separating regimes by the person actually at the helm is arbitrary at all. The scout's may rank the players but it's the GM's vision of the team that will also impact which players are drafted, where the scouts spend most of their time etc...

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by AC

Good call. That 1999 draft was a MESS.

1. Vancouver traded Bryan McCabe + a 2000 or 2001 1st rounder to Chicago for the #4 draft pick.
2. Vancouver traded #4 overall + and two 3rd rounders to Tampa for the #1 overall pick.
3. Vancouver then traded the #1 overall pick to Atlanta for #2 and a conditional 3rd rounder.

'99, right thanks. Yeah it was a bit of a gong show.

[Captain_Obvious]

I really feel positive about the last two drafts:

- Sven, Gaudreau, Janowski, Sieloff, Wotherspoon Granlund, Brossoit...

The notion that we somehow end up drafting top 3-ish this season and somehow miss the potential franchise players universally ranked in that bracket is beyond ridiculous.