Life after the trade deadline

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by _Q_

It's not about getting better now. It's about getting assets that can make a positive impact in the near future. Look at the line-up I posted. Definitely not better than what we have right now, but it does two things. A) It opens up spots for guys like Baertschi and Horak to show what they're worth, and B) It stocks the shelves for next year and beyond.

Short term pain = long term gain.

I agree with this, however, something that I've wondered reading the forum over the past little while is: why is a good portion of the board on the "trade Bouwmeester" bandwagon?

Players like Bouwmeester seem to play at a high level until their mid-late 30's, so I feel like we could get at least another 6 - 10 years of Bouwmeester playing at a top 4 level, if not top 2. So I fail to see why trading our only legitimate number 1 defenceman is going to help short term or long term, considering that it's going to be a position we'll need to fill if we want to be a contender in 3 - 5 years..

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I agree with this, however, something that I've wondered reading the forum over the past little while is: why is a good portion of the board on the "trade Bouwmeester" bandwagon?

Players like Bouwmeester seem to play at a high level until their mid-late 30's, so I feel like we could get at least another 6 - 10 years of Bouwmeester playing at a top 4 level, if not top 2. So I fail to see why trading our only legitimate number 1 defenceman is going to help short term or long term, considering that it's going to be a position we'll need to fill if we want to be a contender in 3 - 5 years..

It's asset management. Basically trading a player that probably won't be part of the long term solution for a package of picks and prospects. It's something the Flames should have done with Iginla 5 years ago. His value was at its highest back then as it is with Bouwmeester now.

Sure Bouwmeester will be effective in 3-5 years when this team is ready to be a contender, but hopefully in 3-5 years, Brodie, Wotherspoon, Breen and Sieloff will be our top Defencemen for 10 years into the future from that point.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by _Q_

It's asset management. Basically trading a player that probably won't be part of the long term solution for a package of picks and prospects. It's something the Flames should have done with Iginla 5 years ago. His value was at its highest back then as it is with Bouwmeester now.

Sure Bouwmeester will be effective in 3-5 years when this team is ready to be a contender, but hopefully in 3-5 years, Brodie, Wotherspoon, Breen and Sieloff will be our top Defencemen for 10 years into the future from that point.

See, this makes no sense to me. Why would we trade Bouwmeester, who's proven and will be effective for years to come, then hope that the stars align in the future and we get someone who's as good as Bouwmeester already is/will be. That's not asset management.

[Trojan97]

Originally Posted by jar_e

We need an over/under how many times CP will crash if any of those players are traded.

The good old days when Dean McAmmond from Philly for a 4th would crash the site. My those were simpler times...

[l33t_hax0r]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

See, this makes no sense to me. Why would we trade Bouwmeester, who's proven and will be effective for years to come, then hope that the stars align in the future and we get someone who's as good as Bouwmeester already is/will be. That's not asset management.

His value is high now based on his play this season relative to his earlier play in Calgary. If you think this is unsustainable, then it makes sense to sell high. Personally, I don't like his competitiveness - his play has regressed in the past during critical stretches. I hope we see a return to a team identity of being physical and a pain to play against. If that's the case, I don't think he's a good fit.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

See, this makes no sense to me. Why would we trade Bouwmeester, who's proven and will be effective for years to come, then hope that the stars align in the future and we get someone who's as good as Bouwmeester already is/will be. That's not asset management.

Because when Hartley is long fired after 3-4 losing seasons and Ward comes in, he will revert the system back to Sutter style hockey, Bouwmeester's play will decline and we'll all be wanting him traded.

[GGG]

I think Glencross and Iggy go at the deadline. I hope Stephniak does as is value will never be higher. Glencross can play and contibute on the 2nd and 3rd lines and has a cheap contract. He is the kind of player that will improve greatly with a good center around. Gio is also expendable right now if the offer is good.

Jbo we should keep, the goal is to be back in the playoffs 3 years from now. That means we need 4 defensemen 3 years from now. In my opinion they are jbo, brodie, wideman and ???. We really need a number 1 shutdown guy. Getting rid of jbo just means you need a number 1 shutdown guy and a number 2 guy. He also has a year left and is slightly overpaid so he is worth more next year at the deadline if we do want to move him. This is similar to Cammy who is worht more next year.

Generally if you are not part of the plan 3 years from now its time to maximize value.

[Corral]

Iginla will still be here after the deadline because the Flames will ask too much for him. The team really can't win by trading him at the deadline to a contender as a rental for some prospects. Best to put him on the market - ask too much - and tell the fans "we did our best - couldn't find a deal that works for the Flames and whether Iginla stays here is really up to him".

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

See, this makes no sense to me. Why would we trade Bouwmeester, who's proven and will be effective for years to come, then hope that the stars align in the future and we get someone who's as good as Bouwmeester already is/will be. That's not asset management.

How effective can he be on a 14th place team?

This year he has played as best as can be imagined and the the end result is still the same.... He plays well enough to lose.


who is responsible for the Flames being a perennial also ran if not Bouwmeester?

What has changed this year? Is he going to be a positive game changer down the stretch all of the sudden?

If Bouwmeester is going to be your #1 D man there is basically no hope to make the playoffs.

If he accounts for over 10% of your salary cap he basically has to be the best d-man.


Will Bouwmeester step up and lead the Flames to a playoff-spot this year?

Will he dominate down the stretch and then in the playoffs.


He accounts for 10.4% of the Flames cap next year.


PS He will not be traded as he does not fit in with any other teams salary structure either.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

How effective can he be on a 14th place team?

This year he has played as best as can be imagined and the the end result is still the same.... He plays well enough to lose.


who is responsible for the Flames being a perennial also ran if not Bouwmeester?

What has changed this year? Is he going to be a positive game changer down the stretch all of the sudden?

If Bouwmeester is going to be your #1 D man there is basically no hope to make the playoffs.

If he accounts for over 10% of your salary cap he basically has to be the best d-man.


Will Bouwmeester step up and lead the Flames to a playoff-spot this year?

Will he dominate down the stretch and then in the playoffs.


He accounts for 10.4% of the Flames cap next year.


PS He will not be traded as he does not fit in with any other teams salary structure either.

I think he can and will be traded considering the Flames can eat a portion of his salary next year.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I think he can and will be traded considering the Flames can eat a portion of his salary next year.

Yep the flames have tons of cap space so they can use some to help out another team!!???

The Flames are once again in cap prison having 17 M to pay 12 players including an Iginla replacement..

Feaster operates this team as though he gets a bonus for keeping the Flames right under the cap..... Sarich, Babchuck, Hudler and Wideman , Brad Richards, O'Rielly...... Feaster does not consider what the situation will be in the future (any more than 6 months)...... chances are he will be a TSN panellist within a year.

[_Q_]

So with all this trade talk circulating, the Flames could go into the upcoming draft with 4 or 5 first round picks.

Should the Flames trade some of those picks before the draft for a bona fide first line centre? If so, who could be available for a bit of an overpayment and how much would it cost the team?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Yep the flames have tons of cap space so they can use some to help out another team!!???

The Flames are once again in cap prison having 17 M to pay 12 players including an Iginla replacement..

Feaster operates this team as though he gets a bonus for keeping the Flames right under the cap..... Sarich, Babchuck, Hudler and Wideman , Brad Richards, O'Rielly...... Feaster does not consider what the situation will be in the future (any more than 6 months)...... chances are he will be a TSN panellist within a year.

Salary for next year means absolutely nothing. We are looking at 3 years of rebuilding. Jbo's highest value is next year at the trade deadline when he can be given to a cup contending team for only 2 -3 mil of cap hit or if he is in the future plans as our number 2 defensemen can take a paycut to 5 million and resign.

Cap Wise we are in good shape going into next year and dont have too much to add with that 17 million. Other than our perenial need for a number one center (which is not available in free agency) and a number 1 winger (not available in free agency) and Backlund (2 mil tops) we have the rest of the top 9 signed and our top 4 D. Now the fact that these players aren't good enough for what they bring is a separate problem. The real problem is there aren't UFA's for the positions we need so it wouldn't matter how much cap space we had it wouldnt help.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Nasty

Why does everyone think that if we trade Iginla we fix all the teams problems? look at columbus they traded Nash.... they are only one spot ahead of us.

why would you trade your best player in an attempt to get better ? It makes no sense even if you trade for a good player with upside there is no garuntee that they will become the next iginla or even contribute to a cup.

He's going to walk for nothing

[868904]

If they move the vets for young prospects and picks, I will enjoy watching the Flames battle with youthful enthusiasm and endure their young mistakes and hope that they can compete like the Blue Jackets have this year.

I'm sick of the old stale veteran play. The lack of drive and passion. The only players on this team who drive the net are Backlund and Brodie. The vets prefer to gain the zone slowly and set up a boring cycle game despite not having the team size to play this effectively.

My only enjoyment in watching this team comes from the young players. Like Sven's 5 game call up last year, or Byron's debut vs Colorado last year, or Brodie's emergence this year, and Backlund's flashes of briliiance this year.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by 868904

If they move the vets for young prospects and picks, I will enjoy watching the Flames battle with youthful enthusiasm and endure their young mistakes and hope that they can compete like the Blue Jackets have this year.

I'm sick of the old stale veteran play. The lack of drive and passion. The only players on this team who drive the net are Backlund and Brodie. The vets prefer to gain the zone slowly and set up a boring cycle game despite not having the team size to play this effectively.

My only enjoyment in watching this team comes from the young players. Like Sven's 5 game call up last year, or Byron's debut vs Colorado last year, or Brodie's emergence this year, and Backlund's flashes of briliiance this year.

You may not have to watch that either.

If the vets are moved, there's a good chance that the Flames will simply acquire more this off season.

You might think that this is a bad thing, but we'll also have the plethora of prospects from this draft year. The problem with the Flames isn't the Vets, many of whom are quality players. It's that we don't have new quality players feeding into the system. The best teams over the past few years have also featured players in the 20-25 range making strong contributions.

One season of "tanking" could fix a lot of our problems.

[Nasty]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The people that don't understand why the Iginla situation needs to be addressed are any of the following:

a) Bigger Iginla fans than Flames fans
b) Very young
C) Idiots

These are the only conclusions at present I can come up with. The Blue Jackets are better off with Nash gone. They will be in the playoffs before the Flames.

And by addressed for Iggy I mean he either needs to be signed up, or traded.

What makes you the freaking genius to be able to place people in one of your 3 idiotic categories????

I question your own mental capabilities based on the fact that you think Columbus will become more successful than the Flames short term. Just my opinion however

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Nasty

What makes you the freaking genius to be able to place people in one of your 3 idiotic categories????

I question your own mental capabilities based on the fact that you think Columbus will become more successful than the Flames short term. Just my opinion however

See the standings. We are below the jackets, therefore worse than them in the short term.

[Nasty]

Originally Posted by saillias

He's going to walk for nothing

And if he does his respect will insurmountably be diminished by fans and players.

[Nasty]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

See the standings. We are below the jackets, therefore worse than them in the short term.

you are right, but his arguement was that they make the playoffs before we do. I think we have a better team to get into the playoffs than they do for at least 3 years