[Trade] Mitch Wahl traded to Philly for Mike Testwiude

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I don't think Button could do his job with any degree of autonomy while Sutter was here. I remember him saying ultimate call was Darryl's. He's done pretty good in the past two drafts sans Sutter so I'd be willing to stay the course for now, especially since Feaster is putting more resources into scouting which should pay off.

He hasn't done anything in the last 2 years yet.

Nothing.

Remember when Matt Keetley was the best goalie in the WHL? Everyone was riding high then.
Dustin Boyd?
Kris Chucko?
Adam Cracknell?
Greg Moore?

Everything usually looks rosy 2 years out.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I've mentioned it a few times, but right after the WHL season I spoke with Marc Habscheide (his coach) and he had no good things to say about Ryan's work ethic or abilities outside of his shot

Yeah, that jived with what I observed watching him in the WHL after we drafted him... great shot but no other skill that stood out as above WHL average and if you don't look above average while playing against younger boys then you're in tough when you graduate to playing against men. Horak stood out as a better overall player by the eye test even while Howse was scoring all the goals.

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Everything usually looks rosy 2 years out.

Yeah, prospects... they'll break your heart.

[moon]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Nemisz played with Hall (most of the time). Henrique was on the 2nd/shutdown type line.

Henrique was always the better prospect. Nemisz was the big guy who you could dream on which describe a ton of Flames picks in the Sutter era (Chucko, Pelech, etc).

I would have also rather had Wellwood from that team than Neimsz... he likely maxes out as a 3rd/4th line energy guy but Neimsz was never a guy I'd have pegged for an NHL player.

Okay.

I remember hearing from Spits fans that Nemisz played with Wellwood and Timmins/Mitchell and Henrique was playing with Hall/Shugg. Didn't ever see them myself so I was going off their reports.

Seems odd that being always the better prospect Henrique was rated lower and selected in the 3rd round.

[sureLoss]

Yeah pretty sure Nemisz wasn't on a line with Hall for the majority of his time with the Spitfires.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Yeah pretty sure Nemisz wasn't on a line with Hall for the majority of his time with the Spitfires.

He was on the PP Unit with him I know that for sure. I'm pretty (not totally) sure they had at least some amount of Even Strength time together as well but don't quote me on that.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I don't think Button could do his job with any degree of autonomy while Sutter was here. I remember him saying ultimate call was Darryl's.

The ultimate call probably was Darryl, but it was in part provided from the short list that he provided Sutter. We know that Sutter liked a particular type of player and chances are that Button was given the direction to specifically key in on those players.

The year Pelech was drafted, Downie and Neal were drafted very shortly after him - I think we can all agree that these are "Sutter players". Did Button's list include these two? How hard was he pushing for them?

I think those are legitimate questions to be asking.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by moon

Okay.

I remember hearing from Spits fans that Nemisz played with Wellwood and Timmins/Mitchell and Henrique was playing with Hall/Shugg. Didn't ever see them myself so I was going off their reports.

Seems odd that being always the better prospect Henrique was rated lower and selected in the 3rd round.

Big players always get an artificial bump for being big I find, that could be part of it as well. Two players I know fairly well Brayden Point and Luke Philp will probably go later in the draft next year than they should just based on the fact that they are small. That could have been part of it with Nemisz as well.

[cannon7]

Wahl's development was derailed by a concussion early in his pro career. He looked amazing in his first Flames' camp, but just hasn't been the same. Wish him well in Philly's system. Had speed to burn, very much a Matthew Lombardi type. May end up being a late bloomer, who knows.

[Roof-Daddy]

If Wahl goes to the Phantoms and starts producing at the AHL level, and ends up becoming an NHL player I am going to jump on Erick Estrada's bandwagon and hope the Flames immediately jettison Ward.

I doubt that happens but I guess we will just have to wait and see.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If Wahl goes to the Phantoms and starts producing at the AHL level, and ends up becoming an NHL player I am going to jump on Erick Estrada's bandwagon and hope the Flames immediately jettison Ward.

I doubt that happens but I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Hey I'm not saying that Wahl will make the NHL or even a great AHL player. All I'm saying is that I find it troubling that Flames draft picks Wahl, Howse, Ferland, Reinhart, Irving, Nemisz are all failing miserably in Abbotsford. Sure maybe they aren't good enough to make the NHL but for all of them to bust at the AHL kind of stinks as these guys all produced pretty big in junior and one would have to expect at least one or two of them to at least become AHL regulars. Something not right going on down there.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hey I'm not saying that Wahl will make the NHL or even a great AHL player. All I'm saying is that I find it troubling that Flames draft picks Wahl, Howse, Ferland, Reinhart, Irving, Nemisz are all failing miserably in Abbotsford. Sure maybe they aren't good enough to make the NHL but for all of them to bust at the AHL kind of stinks as these guys all produced pretty big in junior and one would have to expect at least one or two of them to at least become AHL regulars. Something not right going on down there.

I don't like it either, and find myself also wondering what the deal is down there.

It's one of three things IMO

1) that group of prospects you listed are really bad
2) they are being stifled out of existence
3) a little of both

Like I said, if Wahl catches fire after a change of scenery, I'm seriously going to start questioning Ward as a developmental coach.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Yeah pretty sure Nemisz wasn't on a line with Hall for the majority of his time with the Spitfires.

Whenever I watched them it was Hall/Neimsz/Loktionov. They may have been split up when Loktionov left which was the ultra loaded team with Cam Fowler and Zach Kassian added when they basically had full lines of NHL draft picks.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't like it either, and find myself also wondering what the deal is down there.

It's one of three things IMO

1) that group of prospects you listed are really bad
2) they are being stifled out of existence
3) a little of both

Like I said, if Wahl catches fire after a change of scenery, I'm seriously going to start questioning Ward as a developmental coach.

I also found it interesting that when Ferland went back to the WHL, the first 10 game he was complete crap. By all accounts he was actually out of shape and it took him some time to get back to form.

Makes you wonder what he was even doing in the AHL.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't like it either, and find myself also wondering what the deal is down there.

It's one of three things IMO

1) that group of prospects you listed are really bad
2) they are being stifled out of existence
3) a little of both

Like I said, if Wahl catches fire after a change of scenery, I'm seriously going to start questioning Ward as a developmental coach.

Wahl spent some time playing for Hamilton of the AHL last season and didn't produce there either. He may not have gotten the ice time playing for a Montreal affiliate so I don't know his side of the story. I wonder if the fault for his lack of progress lies with him or Ward but I'll wish him luck with his new organization. Just from what I've read, I think his personality has something to do with how his coaches treat him. He doesn't come across as an eager beaver.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Wahl spent some time playing for Hamilton of the AHL last season and didn't produce there either. He may not have gotten the ice time playing for a Montreal affiliate so I don't know his side of the story. I wonder if the fault for his lack of progress lies with him or Ward but I'll wish him luck with his new organization. Just from what I've read, I think his personality has something to do with how his coaches treat him. He doesn't come across as an eager beaver.

Fair enough. Like I said, I don't think he's going to turn it around all of a sudden, but if he somehow does, it's going to raise some questions IMO.

[nik-]

Lets be honest here, the Nemisz pick wasn't good from the beginning. Ward has nothing to do with him not having success, however other players I'm a little worried about, mostly Reinhart.

[Canada 02]

Fans make great hindsight scouts

If we are being honest, there was general optimism among fans following the 2008 draft. CP/Flames fans generally liked the Nemisz and Wahl picks. There were media comparisons of Nemisz to John Leclair. Team Canada scouts and coaches liked him enough to make the world junior team. Likewise with Wahl and USA Hockey - these are scouts and coaches independent of the Flames choosing these players to be among the elite in their age group

[Ashasx]

The Heat (or whatever the new name will be) need a complete overhaul next year.

The team needs to get young. Enough of players like Walter, Kolanos, Piskula. They have to be the oldest team in the AHL.

The Flames need to sign Ramage, Wotherspoon, and Culkin for next season. Give them all top 4 minutes on the blueline. All situations, PK, PP, what have you.

Give Brossoit a lot of games (40+). Give Ferland top 6 minutes. If Arnold decides to sign this off-season, give him and Reinhart top line minutes.

There's no reason our prospects shouldn't be put in positions to succeed.

[Vulcan]

I haven't given up on Nemisz yet. He's been hampered by injury this season so next year is big for him. We could sure use his size on the Flames (along with Ferland).

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

There's no reason our prospects shouldn't be put in positions to succeed.

I agree with your post but apparently there are very real reasons our prospects aren't being put in positions to succeed as how else do you explain what's going on down there this season?