Wear a poppy

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by mrgreen

I hear/read about the politics of the poppy fairly regularly in recent years around this time of year. I just think it's gotten more complicated and political as a symbol.

Where? Honestly, nothing I've read anywhere has mentioned any politics around wearing the poppy. Sounds like a bunch of facebook nonsense that should be ridiculed outright.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Where? Honestly, nothing I've read anywhere has mentioned any politics around wearing the poppy. Sounds like a bunch of facebook nonsense that should be ridiculed outright.

Think it has to do with the Legion seeking a monopoly on the poppy as a symbol of veterans, or some such.

Some women in Fredericton were knitting poppies and the Legion warned them to stop. Some other stuff along those same lines, I believe. Just do a Google search.

[mac_82]

Sounds like we need a Remembrance Day (WW1/2), and a Armed Forces Day/Memorial day to celebrate all who have died, and a Veterans day to celebrate everyone who has served.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mac_82

Sounds like we need a Remembrance Day (WW1/2), and a Armed Forces Day/Memorial day to celebrate all who have died, and a Veterans day to celebrate everyone who has served.

Or we could have one day based on a significant historical date that is used to celebrate all of them together as members of the military community would prefer symbolically.

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

[Magnum PEI]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I love these kinds of threads, always brings out the idealistic dip####s who haven't got a clue how lucky they were to win the life lottery by being born in Canada. I'll always wear a poppy, it's a pretty insignificant gesture when you think about how much some people gave in times of war.

I think everybody realizes how awesome Canada is. The two world wars had nothing to do with this, nor did they somehow prevent a foreign invasion. People who say we owe our freedom to veterans are naive, simplistic, and ignorant.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If Canada hadn't entered the war.

The North American Convoys wouldn't have broken the German Naval blockade of the UK, Britain likely would have been invaded and taken or starved of food, fuel vital part weapons and ammunition died on the vine. Hitler would have probably delayed his invasion of Russia and built a true fortress Europe.

Without Canada there wouldn't have been southern pressure on the German's through Italy.

The UK would have probably been a puppet state of Berlin,

The Normandy Invasion wouldn't have happened as a trans Atlantic supply line would have been broken.

Key American armaments that flowed through Canada to Britain wouldn't have arrived and Britain would have been short of Aircraft and other key systems.

The English rule of law would have essentially vanished throughout Europe and most of Africa.

If the Japanese hadn't foolishly attacked Pearl Harbor and Canada hadn't participated in the convoy runs and later the military actions in Europe we would have been looking at a far more frightening version of a cold war featuring a convienience alliance between Germany Japan and the Soviets.

I think you overvalue Canada's role in WW2.

Half of Europe became communist after the war anyway, so it wouldn't have been that much different.

Let's say Britain and France don't declare war in Sep. 1939 and let Germany have Gdansk. One of two things likely would have happened.
1. Hitler makes no more territorial acquisitions and rules a prosperous Germany for the rest of his life. He did say his only ambitions were Gdansk and Silesia, the areas taken away after Versailles (though he said a lot of things).

2.Hitler invades Russia in the early 1940's and wins, making Germany the leading world power, with USA, Britain, and Japan.

Don't really see how any of these scenarios affects the freedom of Canadians.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Let's say Britain and France don't declare war in Sep. 1939 and let Germany have Gdansk. One of two things likely would have happened.

1. Hitler makes no more territorial acquisitions and rules a prosperous Germany for the rest of his life. He did say his only ambitions were Gdansk and Silesia, the areas taken away after Versailles (though he said a lot of things).

2.Hitler invades Russia in the early 1940's and wins, making Germany the leading world power, with USA, Britain, and Japan.

Don't really see how any of these scenarios affects the freedom of Canadians.

Sorry in advance for the thread derailing, but:

You honestly think it a "likely" scenario that Hitler would have stopped at your first scenario? Holy crap, there has been a lot of revisionist history since I last studied.

And to your last sentence, I would suggest the spread and normalization of the pillar values/government of Nazi Germany would have had a profound effect on the freedom of Canadians (and frankly the world).

[HPLovecraft]

With or without Canada, Hitler in all likelihood would have been defeated by the Russians regardless. Hell, without the US there's still a better than average chance the Russians would still have defeated Hitler.

[schteve_d]

Just remember something as you make the choice not to wear a poppy: The poppy is meant to symbolize your appreciation for those who have sacrificed, protected and essentially given you the gift of living with a freedom that allows you to make that very choice.

Sad.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

I think you overvalue Canada's role in WW2.

Half of Europe became communist after the war anyway, so it wouldn't have been that much different.

Let's say Britain and France don't declare war in Sep. 1939 and let Germany have Gdansk. One of two things likely would have happened.
1. Hitler makes no more territorial acquisitions and rules a prosperous Germany for the rest of his life. He did say his only ambitions were Gdansk and Silesia, the areas taken away after Versailles (though he said a lot of things).

2.Hitler invades Russia in the early 1940's and wins, making Germany the leading world power, with USA, Britain, and Japan.

Don't really see how any of these scenarios affects the freedom of Canadians.

I think that you under value the role of Canada in the role and especially in terms of the battle of the Atlantic to support a really out of left field historical theory.

I don't know where you got your facts about Hitler but it was pretty clear that the concept of appeasement served to encourage Hitler not to make him settle.

He had a vision of a entirely united Aryan based Europe ruled under Germany's thumb.

He wanted resources that Germany didn't have and living space that Germany didn't have, it went beyond the humiliation of the treaty of Versailles.

He saw Great Britain as one of the many crowns in his conquest plan, he also realized and his high command realized that if they took Britain they effectively would have secured Fortress Europe from Western Invasion for all time, he could have then picked off Russia at his leisure with a much larger and well supplied and armed military.

There would have been no independent Britain in that future power triangle which would have been Japan essentially crawling up Siberia and Germany hammering through the front door.

Italy would have in a perfect world been depended on to seal shut anySouthern Invasion into Europe.

Hitler had no intention of stopping, he was a man who didn't have much respect for people that surrendered territory or resources to him, he was the ultimate narcissistic personality and was not rational.

[Stay Golden]

Its a simple token of appreciation and respect. Wear a Poppy and show you really care for the Men and Women that sacrificed so much to provide the simple safe lifestyle we take for granted today.
If you havn't bought a Poppy yet buy one tomorrow!

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Think it has to do with the Legion seeking a monopoly on the poppy as a symbol of veterans, or some such.

Some women in Fredericton were knitting poppies and the Legion warned them to stop. Some other stuff along those same lines, I believe. Just do a Google search.

The Royal Canadian Legion owns the copyright to the poppy. Unfortunately, in this day and age, if a copyright is not defended it becomes hard to defend in future cases. Yes, it is a slippery slope but it does need to be observed.

The Knitters of New Brunswick (sounds like a great name for a band) had good intentions but they should have approached the Legion first. They may have been able to get a partnership going. In this case it is easier to ask for permission than it is to ask for forgiveness.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Reaper

The Royal Canadian Legion owns the copyright to the poppy. Unfortunately, in this day and age, if a copyright is not defended it becomes hard to defend in future cases. Yes, it is a slippery slope but it does need to be observed.

The Knitters of New Brunswick (sounds like a great name for a band) had good intentions but they should have approached the Legion first. They may have been able to get a partnership going. In this case it is easier to ask for permission than it is to ask for forgiveness.

Couldn't they just give them written permission to use it after they discover the fact? Similar to them forcing that motorcycle group of veterans to stop using that white poppy they all had on their helmets. Not everyone knows and understands copyright law (and I would imagine those ladies knitting the poppies also had no knowledge of copyright law, especially in this case, and just thought they were doing a nice thing), so why not, on the discovery of the use and realizing it's not being used for commercial reasons (they forced a bakery to stop making poppy cookies for a a family of a soldier that died in Afghanistan, so even this seems at times a bit much), just write something up giving permission? That doesn't weaken copyright claim as well, does it? If not, there's no need for the strong-arm tactics, but I'm not a lawyer.

The Legion talks about the poppy being a symbol of remembrance, but in actuality, with the way they enforce their copyright, they're behaving like it's nothing but a symbol of the Legion.

[GreenLantern]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but...

Video: Some students opt out of Remembrance Day ceremonies

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/...rticle5034985/

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Not sure if this has been posted yet but...



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/...rticle5034985/

What a load of garbage. I was happy to see that the majority of parents interviewed (a small sample size) did not agree.

My daughter today asked me what a PeaceMaker is. I can't wait to have that discussion with her.

[chemgear]

I think they're still working on it but it certainly quite the sight along Memorial today.

http://www.fieldofcrosses.com/organization/about-us

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

With or without Canada, Hitler in all likelihood would have been defeated by the Russians regardless. Hell, without the US there's still a better than average chance the Russians would still have defeated Hitler.

And then all of western Europe wouldn't exist as they are to this day, but thanks for your effort.

[Calgaryflamesgirl34]

I think the easiest way to see the importance of Remembrance day is to see the lines of veterans who may be over the age of 90 standing for hours in the cold and rain. Don't you think we can at least do the same? My family is military and I have lived in military bases most of my life and I can say that was probably the best experience as a child I could have had, not only did I grow up in smaller communities but also an area where everyone shared a common bond of loving Canada and what it represents.

And for those who don't believe Canada should send troops to other countries, they should really talk to my dad. He was in Haiti right after the earthquake, he was in the Democratic Republic of Congo and Bosnia and he has shared the horrible conditions these people live in and lastly Afghanistan...the story that I always remember is him driving in the cities of Afghanistan and seeing a woman sitting in the truck of a car because the chickens in the back seat had more importance then she did to her husband...

So how is leaving these countries where thousands are being mistreated and killed right? Shouldn't we want to reach out and help other human beings by building roads, schools, protecting children, women and innocent civilians?

All I can say is I hope Canadians start remembering and working towards respecting veterans and not judging them intill they have visited the places they have been sent to help.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

And then all of western Europe wouldn't exist as they are to this day, but thanks for your effort.

The hypothetical question being discussed seemed to be what would happen with Germany if Canada didn't enter the war, but thanks for being an #######.

[Captain_Obvious]

This is a Nazi pin my grandfather tore off a german prisoner when his Canadian Navy ship took a Nazi ship hostage. I inherited it after he passed away a few years ago and I always take it out and look at it with reverence on this date remembering how he was away from home for so long with his life on the line fighting for our freedom.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

This is a Nazi pin my grandfather tore off a german prisoner when his Canadian Navy ship took a Nazi ship hostage. I inherited it after he passed away a few years ago and I always take it out and look at it with reverence on this date remembering how he was away from home for so long with his life on the line fighting for our freedom.

What ship(s) did he serve on during the war? My grandfather was a petty officer on the HMCS Assiniboine.