2012 NFL Season Thread

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Goodell can't punish them because of the CBA. For the exact same reasons, the suspensions to the non-players will likely stay in place, as they are not covered under the CBA, rather under their own contracts.

So basically, they're saying because the CBA doesn't provide guidelines against a bounty program, it's out of Goodell's jurisdiction?

[Montana Moe]

Goodell can still punish them for conduct detrimental to the league.

From what I understand, he can't rule on anything concerning player salaries/cap violations. Since the punishments were not specific to the actions vs. the money involved, they were thrown out. At least that's what I can glean from what PFT is reporting: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-commissioner/

[themedicineman]

The whole thing is (get this) there was no bounty program. No conduct detrimental. Just a pay for performance program that is only punishable by fines not suspensions. It's written into the CBA that you can't be suspeneded for pay for performance.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by themedicineman

The whole thing is (get this) there was no bounty program. No conduct detrimental. Just a pay for performance program that is only punishable by fines not suspensions. It's written into the CBA that you can't be suspeneded for pay for performance.

Really?

The panel, which described its decision as "cumbersome," said, "in our view the alleged bounty program was both an undisclosed agreement to provide compensation to players and an agreement to cause injury to opposing players," league sources told Schefter

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Well NFL losses tons of credibility, the Saints still lose because Sean Payton is the only person suspended that matters, and now the Saints can't have that chip on their shoulder and will be the most targeted team in the league.

You are so out of it. I have some news for you champ, I guarantee the Bucs have done the exact same thing along with every other NFL team, the difference being the Saints got caught and used as an example. You can piss and moan all you like but it won't change the fact that the Saints are a much better team than your Bucs.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You are so out of it. I have some news for you champ, I guarantee the Bucs have done the exact same thing along with every other NFL team, the difference being the Saints got caught and used as an example.

Source?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Source?

Multiple players who have talked about it throughout all this crap. Do I really have to go hunt articles? Most experts have stated that is believed that most teams had this kind of thing going on throughout the years. You really believe the Saints were the only team to have this?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Multiple players who have talked about it throughout all this crap. Do I really have to go hunt articles? Most experts have stated that is believed that most teams had this kind of thing going on throughout the years. You really believe the Saints were the only team to have this?

Most of the players said they had pay for performance plans going on, but none of them copped to being rewarded for intentionally injuring other players.

[themedicineman]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Really?

Haven't we seen enough bull#### spewed by "league sources" to know that it's most likely embelished and far from the truth yet? I thought people were getting smarter than to believe the first thing they read every time news breaks from the league on this subject.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by themedicineman

The whole thing is (get this) there was no bounty program. No conduct detrimental. Just a pay for performance program that is only punishable by fines not suspensions. It's written into the CBA that you can't be suspeneded for pay for performance.

What?

Of course there was. Payton even apologized for being involved in it. Is he enough of a "league source" for you?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/77...bounty-scandal

No idea what you are going on about here.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well the thing is, the Saints were not exonerated here. The suspensions were overturned by a collective bargaining panel. And actually now, Goodell can go back to the beginning and suspend them all again but this time make it much more tighter to a challenge. Essentially the panel couldn't decide if the documents from the NFL concerning the suspensions indicated they were for conduct detrimental to the league, for which Goodell can ban them for as long as he'd like, or for salary cap violations. Hence, why the players won on a technicality. If Goodell takes the appropriate steps here, the players could end up playing week 1 and being suspended all over again.

And yes please prove every teams bounty ever dissentowner. There is evidence of a Saints program. If you can find the evidence for everyone else then please post it.

[transplant99]

Interesting tidbit about the niners/packers game...

The teams combined for 28 victories last season. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, there has been only one opening game in NFL history where the opponents have combined for more. (1999, Minnesota Vikings at Atlanta Falcons.)

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well, that was fast...

“Nothing in today’s decision contradicts any of the facts found in the investigation into this matter, or absolves any player of responsibility for conduct detrimental,” Pash writes. “Nor does the decision in any way suggest what discipline would be appropriate for conduct that lies within the authority of the Commissioner. Per the panel’s direction, the Commissioner will promptly reconsider the matter and make a determination of the appropriate discipline consistent with the standards set forth in today’s decision. All clubs will be advised when that decision is made.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...omment-1980671

Wonder if they'll even play week 1.

[themedicineman]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What?

Of course there was. Payton even apologized for being involved in it. Is he enough of a "league source" for you?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/77...bounty-scandal

No idea what you are going on about here.

Ah yes ESPN, the NFL may as well own them. I read your article. No where does it have a quote of Payton saying anything other than that he's "sorry" nothing about a bounty program that targeted players for injury. Please if you can find a full transcript of anyone admitting that there was a full fledged bounty program in New Orleans be my guest. Oh and if you even are thinking of bringing up Gregg Williams statement. It's already been retracted.

Honestly if there was evidence of a bounty program we'd lay back and take our punishment. But c'mon, show us some REAL evidence. This whole deal isn't even over in court it is looking more and more likely that the TRO will be approved and for there to be either a settlement or outright decision in the players favor.

[moon]

Disappointing to see the judgement, hopefully the NFL finds a way to keep Vilma out of the NFL for as long as possible whether by suspension or injury.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by themedicineman

Ah yes ESPN, the NFL may as well own them. I read your article. No where does it have a quote of Payton saying anything other than that he's "sorry" nothing about a bounty program that targeted players for injury. Please if you can find a full transcript of anyone admitting that there was a full fledged bounty program in New Orleans be my guest. Oh and if you even are thinking of bringing up Gregg Williams statement. It's already been retracted.

Honestly if there was evidence of a bounty program we'd lay back and take our punishment. But c'mon, show us some REAL evidence. This whole deal isn't even over in court it is looking more and more likely that the TRO will be approved and for there to be either a settlement or outright decision in the players favor.

What does it matter where the WRITTEN words of Payton appear???

Here is what he said....now explain what it is he is apologizing for

"We acknowledge that the violations disclosed by the NFL during their investigation of our club happened under our watch. We take full responsibility," the Payton and Loomis statement began.

"This has brought undue hardship on Mr. Benson, who had nothing to do with this activity," the statement continued. "He has been nothing but supportive, and for that we both apologize to him.

"These are serious violations, and we understand the negative impact it has had on our game. Both of us have made it clear within our organization that this will never happen again, and make that same promise to the NFL and most importantly to all of our fans."

Oh and this isnt any old ESPN article...its from the NO newspaper.

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf...apologize.html

[themedicineman]

Still doesn't say bounty program there friend. "Violations disclosed by the NFL" so vague you can use it any way you like eh? How about countless testimonies from players and staff saying no bounty program ever existed? Those aren't even close to as ambiguous. Even Mike Cerullo has retracted his statements on their being a bounty program.

We get it, there was a pay for performance program in place. We all know that. Even our stats in terms of injuring players and personal fouls hold up in court. Those pointing towards no pay to harm or bounty program ever existed.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by themedicineman

Still doesn't say bounty program there friend. "Violations disclosed by the NFL" so vague you can use it any way you like eh? How about countless testimonies from players and staff saying no bounty program ever existed? Those aren't even close to as ambiguous. Even Mike Cerullo has retracted his statements on their being a bounty program.

We get it, there was a pay for performance program in place. We all know that. Even our stats in terms of injuring players and personal fouls hold up in court. Those pointing towards no pay to harm or bounty program ever existed.

So what was Payton apologizing for then? Simple question.

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So what was Payton apologizing for then? Simple question.

Honestly, I think he didn't really have a choice. It was more of a "Sign this, take your medicine, or you may never work in this league again." situation if you ask me. Coaches have no CBA, no representation, they work for the league. Payton has the next 20-30 years of employment to consider.

I'll never deny that there was a bounty program, because the only people that truly know are the participants. But to say this is an open and shut case shows that there is plenty of denial to go around.

[themedicineman]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So what was Payton apologizing for then? Simple question.

He's doing what he's told at that point. He has no union to back him up so it's much better for him and the team to just "apologize" and back off.