Shooting at Movie screening of TDKR in Colorado

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by flamingreen

I wouldn't call someone's hate for guns irrational. Plenty of rational reasons someone would hate guns.

Its irrational when it boils down to something that looks scary, sounds scary, and your personal opinion is that of "I don't see a need for it, so nobody else should need it". Just because I don't like war doesn't mean I hate on a military. People have to begin to understand that first and foremost MURDER is ILLEGAL and that did nothing to demotivate the individual, possession of firearms in the theater was against the rules, that did nothing to stop this, possession of a firearm on your person without a carry permit is ILLEGAL and did nothing to dissuade this person, so what makes ANYBODY think that increasing restrictions on firearms would have done anything to stop this? There are a multitude of ways this person could have carried out this crime, none other than firearms seems to create this aire of chaos amongst people, and it does rests squarely on a lack of understanding and education

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Aleks

Its irrational when it boils down to something that looks scary, sounds scary, and your personal opinion is that of "I don't see a need for it, so nobody else should need it". Just because I don't like war doesn't mean I hate on a military. People have to begin to understand that first and foremost MURDER is ILLEGAL and that did nothing to demotivate the individual, possession of firearms in the theater was against the rules, that did nothing to stop this, possession of a firearm on your person without a carry permit is ILLEGAL and did nothing to dissuade this person, so what makes ANYBODY think that increasing restrictions on firearms would have done anything to stop this? There are a multitude of ways this person could have carried out this crime, none other than firearms seems to create this aire of chaos amongst people, and it does rests squarely on a lack of understanding and education

I don't dislike guns, I dislike the idea that absolutely anyone can own a gun. And it isn't because they look scary and have loud sounds, it is because they shoot pieces of hot lead at extreme speeds that can then kill people.

Increasing the restrictions would make it difficult if not impossible for this guy to purchase a firearm - it puts up extra barriers in preventing people who are not mentally well from owning a firearm, which seems logical to me. The guy shouldn't have been able to purchase a firearm.

As for the chaos, I don't think you understand what that word means - debating firearm restrictions isn't chaotic at all... also it rests squarely on the fact that a guy just used a gun to kill 12 people and injure 59 more, to say that people aren't educated and that is why they dislike guns is a stupid argument.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Aleks

You'll have to forgive me then, I'm only going on information I got when I went through the shotgun training through them

Well if you were trained by a police force I'm sure your information is more accurate than mine. But were they talking about the reason for a slug over shot in a shotgun? Surely they were'nt saying a shot gun is more accurate than a rifle.

[PIMking]

I just read this last page so I don't know if this has been touched on or not.

Many of you know that I not own fire arms but I also own an AR-15 and have my Carry license. This act was disgusting to the tenth degree, I'm saddened for all that lost their lives and those who were lucky enough to make it out alive will forever be scared from the horrific events of that night.

With that being said I don't want to sound like a tin foil wearing fool but something just doesn't sound right here. The Unemployed Doctorate student bought anywhere between $15,000-20,000 worth of crap to do this. Where in the world did he get that money? The bomb making material, where did he learn all that at? the body armour? Then the hardest thing for me would be why did he just calmly give him self up to the police not only with out a fight but told those police officers that his house was booby trapped. Why would he do this?

2 + 2 isn't coming to 4 here, is it ironic that this week that we vote on the UN gun ban? The FBI has publically came out about previous red flag terriorist attacks that they planned before. This to me kinda sounds like something to distract the people and get more support from those who would normally not support the gun ban next week.

Look, F&F showed that they were trying for bloodshed to get rid of weapons and now since the executive order we will never know the truth on why two federal employees are now dead because of it.

I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment, however just because one isn't a convicted felon, or been convicted of a domestic abuse doesn't mean that they're mentally capable of having a firearm. I would support the idea that one would have to have a psyc. exam every two-three years to get a firearm, I would and do support microstamping. Just because you have a penis and are fertile doesn't mean you're mentally capable of having children.

I saw a quote yesterday and I can't say it word for word or who it was by but it went something like this:

"whenever there is a mass shooting they try to punish those and take the weapons away from the ones who weren't envolved."

Also stats have shown that people that have their carry permits are overwhelming less prone to commit any crime.

We need more training to get a license, we need psyc. evaluations, we need micro stamping. Even with those some will still sneek through but it would help cut down the numbers.

People are killed everyday in automobile crashes, could be an accident of a part failure, crappy driver that shouldn't have their license, or just a freak accident. However we're not screaming to take away cars.


EDIT:

I also forgot that it was almost a year ago that we had a shooting at the local movies here in Tuscaloosa, No one died and wasn't nearly as terrible as this was but still hits home.

Also even though I have my license and even if I were in that movie theater I don't think it would of been wise to try to stop him.

[tjinaz]

Actually, Colorado does have carry permits, and is used quite widely. The parent company of the theater has a firearms free zone policy enacted years ago, and property rights super cede firearms law and as such you can't take your gun into their premesis.

He said they had "guns on their hips" which i read to mean open carry. If they had a CCW they would not have seen them. Colorado does not permit open carry.

[metallicat]

I'm confused, what are you suggesting happened here? What is your theory?

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

He said they had "guns on their hips" which i read to mean open carry. If they had a CCW they would not have seen them. Colorado does not permit open carry.

Sounds to me that they probably were police.

[tjinaz]

Just because you have a penis and are fertile doesn't mean you're mentally capable of having children.

I think having sperm control would be much more effective than gun control in solving most of society's problems.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I just read this last page so I don't know if this has been touched on or not.

Many of you know that I not own fire arms but I also own an AR-15 and have my Carry license. This act was disgusting to the tenth degree, I'm saddened for all that lost their lives and those who were lucky enough to make it out alive will forever be scared from the horrific events of that night.

With that being said I don't want to sound like a tin foil wearing fool but something just doesn't sound right here. The Unemployed Doctorate student bought anywhere between $15,000-20,000 worth of crap to do this. Where in the world did he get that money? The bomb making material, where did he learn all that at? the body armour? Then the hardest thing for me would be why did he just calmly give him self up to the police not only with out a fight but told those police officers that his house was booby trapped. Why would he do this?

2 + 2 isn't coming to 4 here, is it ironic that this week that we vote on the UN gun ban? The FBI has publically came out about previous red flag terriorist attacks that they planned before. This to me kinda sounds like something to distract the people and get more support from those who would normally not support the gun ban next week.

Look, F&F showed that they were trying for bloodshed to get rid of weapons and now since the executive order we will never know the truth on why two federal employees are now dead because of it.

The Government did it? Seriously? Is this the level of paranoia you get to from watching Fox News?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

He said they had "guns on their hips" which i read to mean open carry. If they had a CCW they would not have seen them. Colorado does not permit open carry.

Yes they do

http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html



However the city of Denver I believe doesn't allow it.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

The Government did it? Seriously? Is this the level of paranoia you get to from watching Fox News?

Yeah the good ole Fox News rant... I don't watch fox news or any of the other liberal crap either. Seriously think about it, I'm not saying that they did I am saying that the FBI and CIA have done this sort of red flag thing before and it's been publicized. Things in this case aren't adding up, why would he give him self up with out a fight and all that body armour? why would he tell the police his house was booby trapped? how did he afford all that equipment while being in grad school and unemployed? (15-20k worth)
Something isn't kosher here boys, I'm not saying the Government did it but it's not adding up.
It's just convienient that this happend a week before the UN gun treaty.

[metallicat]

Every major news story has to have its conspiracy theories I guess.

[PIMking]

it doesn't matter if it wasn't, the fact of the matter is that this idiot did something so disgusting words can't even cover it.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Yeah the good ole Fox News rant... I don't watch fox news or any of the other liberal crap either. Seriously think about it, I'm not saying that they did I am saying that the FBI and CIA have done this sort of red flag thing before and it's been publicized. Things in this case aren't adding up, why would he give him self up with out a fight and all that body armour? why would he tell the police his house was booby trapped? how did he afford all that equipment while being in grad school and unemployed? (15-20k worth)
Something isn't kosher here boys, I'm not saying the Government did it but it's not adding up.
It's just convienient that this happend a week before the UN gun treaty.

But you're implying that a government agency perpetrated one of the biggest mass shootings in US history. I'm sorry, just bringing this up means you think its worthy of discussion. Just drop it. Do you really think that the actual perpetrator of this horrific crime would still be breathing if he was hired by the feds to do this? Mikey's 911 theories think this is whacked.

edit: I brought up Fox News only because you said "Look, F&F showed that they were trying for bloodshed to get rid of weapons and now since the executive order we will never know the truth on why two federal employees are now dead because of it." I assumed you meant "Fox and Friends." What did you mean?

[ResAlien]

Yes. It does matter PIM.

I'm not going to go through your posting history but I don't seem to remember you being one of "those posters" in the past. Since I don't remember you being one of them, I'll ask a question.

Do you ever read posts from 9/11 conspiracy theorists and think to yourself "My god, what kind of moron is this person? How stupid can one human being really be? This drivel they're spewing disrespects everyone involved and is a slap in the face of every single victim. How can someone say things so amazingly stupid that fly in the face of all logic and common sense?"

Just wondering if you've ever said anything like that to yourself when reading posts from a "truther" or one of "those posters". Because these last couple posts of yours? They rank right up there with them.

[Violator]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I just read this last page so I don't know if this has been touched on or not.

Many of you know that I not own fire arms but I also own an AR-15 and have my Carry license. This act was disgusting to the tenth degree, I'm saddened for all that lost their lives and those who were lucky enough to make it out alive will forever be scared from the horrific events of that night.

With that being said I don't want to sound like a tin foil wearing fool but something just doesn't sound right here. The Unemployed Doctorate student bought anywhere between $15,000-20,000 worth of crap to do this. Where in the world did he get that money? The bomb making material, where did he learn all that at? the body armour? Then the hardest thing for me would be why did he just calmly give him self up to the police not only with out a fight but told those police officers that his house was booby trapped. Why would he do this?

When you do something crazy like go on an armed killing spree and realize that A.you'll either have your brain and most of your body filled with bullets or B.be in jail or executed I think the last thing your gonna worry about in jail or dead is the collection agency after applying for three or four credit cards and maxing them out.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Yeah the good ole Fox News rant... I don't watch fox news or any of the other liberal crap either. Seriously think about it, I'm not saying that they did I am saying that the FBI and CIA have done this sort of red flag thing before and it's been publicized. Things in this case aren't adding up, why would he give him self up with out a fight and all that body armour? why would he tell the police his house was booby trapped? how did he afford all that equipment while being in grad school and unemployed? (15-20k worth)
Something isn't kosher here boys, I'm not saying the Government did it but it's not adding up.
It's just convienient that this happend a week before the UN gun treaty.

Same reason the Norwegian shooter gave up without going up against the police. Obviously there's some mental health issues tied into his actions and for whatever reason, he calculated to get himself caught and feel the need to get the attention. Obviously in such cases its rare, but its not unheard of.

I could only find one article online about Holmes saying that he told police he "had explosives inside his apartment" nothing about him particularly saying it was booby trapped.

And credit? Just like every other American?

I can appreciate critical and out of the box thinking, but to insinuate this is to take some sort of heat off the UN gun treaty? Ridiculous.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Well if you were trained by a police force I'm sure your information is more accurate than mine. But were they talking about the reason for a slug over shot in a shotgun? Surely they were'nt saying a shot gun is more accurate than a rifle.

It isn't, hence the introduction of a proper rifle into police forces (in small numbers). I can't recall how many different rifles RCMP have in use, but there are a few. Slugs were introduced years ago after there was some collateral damage in the use of shot, obviously due to spread. That being said, a rifled slug is more than accurate enough for the engagement distances in use when you use a shotgun. Its a shouldered firearm with ring sites, pistols are really only useful for accurate aiming to up to 25 yards tops, and even then its weak. Shotguns with rifled slugs point like a rifle, aim like a rifle, and have immense ballistic force with reduced pass thru

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

He said they had "guns on their hips" which i read to mean open carry. If they had a CCW they would not have seen them. Colorado does not permit open carry.

I see this got covered by somebody else already, but yes they do......I wouldn't have posted if not

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I don't dislike guns, I dislike the idea that absolutely anyone can own a gun. And it isn't because they look scary and have loud sounds, it is because they shoot pieces of hot lead at extreme speeds that can then kill people.

Increasing the restrictions would make it difficult if not impossible for this guy to purchase a firearm - it puts up extra barriers in preventing people who are not mentally well from owning a firearm, which seems logical to me. The guy shouldn't have been able to purchase a firearm.

As for the chaos, I don't think you understand what that word means - debating firearm restrictions isn't chaotic at all... also it rests squarely on the fact that a guy just used a gun to kill 12 people and injure 59 more, to say that people aren't educated and that is why they dislike guns is a stupid argument.

We're arguing laws in different countries now, and I don't concern myself much with US law although I watch it with great interest. Not anyone can get a gun licence here in Canada, which is where we are, so lets concern ourselves with that rather than the weather in Japan. People get refused often, theres interviews, exams, and even then you need spousal permission (including ex's!!!) and they get interviewed. Its not easy, its not immediate, it can take upwards of 3-6 months, and then to get your first firearm is a lengthy process too (maybe not so much now with the LGR finished, but Restricteds such as pistols are still lengthy). Not just "anyone" can get a gun here, so you should feel much safer now

If you read in another article, since we're talking about them now, the individual was refused a membership to a gun range because if his suspicious behavior back on the 1st of July. Plus many of his "materials" were illegally obtained through his school or other online outlets.