Election's Canada investigating "Robocall" Guelph Riding (and other ridings).

[Bobblehead]

I think the actually company making the calls must assume some sort of responsibility. While the "National Do Not Call List" is a bit of a joke, I would think any telemarketing company in Canada should be aware of the restrictions since they are bound by them. And since that is the case then allowing anyone with a fake name to record and send any message they want to any set of numbers they supply sounds like gross negligence.

[Canuck-Hater]

What a disgrace to democracy! And why am I not surprised that Racknine has worked for the Conservative national campaign. This is highly illegal and this government needs to be held accountable. To openly deny these allegations is just not good enough.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I think the actually company making the calls must assume some sort of responsibility. While the "National Do Not Call List" is a bit of a joke, I would think any telemarketing company in Canada should be aware of the restrictions since they are bound by them.

Rack Nine isn't a telemarketing company; they are a service provider.

The clients upload their own lists. Political parties, civic candidates, etc are exempt from the DNC list. https://www.lnnte-dncl.gc.ca/nrt-ntr-eng

And since that is the case then allowing anyone with a fake name to record and send any message they want to any set of numbers they supply sounds like gross negligence.

It was a fake name used to register the cell phone that was purchased with cash. I'm pretty sure they would have used their real name and real credit card when dealing with Rack Nine---- and those are the records I'd presume have been turned over.

[freedogger]

This has to be investigated to the bitter end. I, and most Canadians I hope, will not be satisfied until we get a list of names of everyone responsible.

Thanks Slava for the breakdown on how the service works. It seems to me that it could be anyone behind this. If it was staffers, they had better have paid for it out of their own pocket. Otherwise it would have had to have been approved or had some oversight from above.

If by-elections were held, what is to stop anyone from doing this again? The only answer to me is to shut down all telemarketing

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Rack Nine isn't a telemarketing company; they are a service provider.

The clients upload their own lists. Political parties, civic candidates, etc are exempt from the DNC list. https://www.lnnte-dncl.gc.ca/nrt-ntr-eng



It was a fake name used to register the cell phone that was purchased with cash. I'm pretty sure they would have used their real name and real credit card when dealing with Rack Nine---- and those are the records I'd presume have been turned over.

"Service Provider" - sounds like arguing semantics. They provide the phone lines I would think they should be responsible for how they are used.

And while political parties are exempt from the DNC, I would think there would be something to actually verify that sort of thing.

While Rack Nine may not have had any knowledge of what was going on, I don't think that absolves them all responsibilities.

I hate thinking that there should be some sort of regulations (there is already far too much red tape in life) but there must be some way of deciding where the final buck is supposed to have stopped, and it seems to me some of the blame needs to rest with the company that actually allowed their equipment to be used for those purposes. They shouldn't be a scapegoat, but they need to bear some of the blame.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

"Service Provider" - sounds like arguing semantics. They provide the phone lines I would think they should be responsible for how they are used.

Would you same for your home phone provider? Your cell company? Internet provider?

I hate thinking that there should be some sort of regulations (there is already far too much red tape in life) but there must be some way of deciding where the final buck is supposed to have stopped,

Agreed. This is why there is an Elections Canada/RCMP investigation. Buck will stop with the person(s) who committed the criminal act.

and it seems to me some of the blame needs to rest with the company that actually allowed their equipment to be used for those purposes. They shouldn't be a scapegoat, but they need to bear some of the blame.

And <insert any car manufacturer> should be bear some blame for all the vehicles used to carry out crimes.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by freedogger

This has to be investigated to the bitter end. I, and most Canadians I hope, will not be satisfied until we get a list of names of everyone responsible.

Thanks Slava for the breakdown on how the service works. It seems to me that it could be anyone behind this. If it was staffers, they had better have paid for it out of their own pocket. Otherwise it would have had to have been approved or had some oversight from above.

If by-elections were held, what is to stop anyone from doing this again? The only answer to me is to shut down all telemarketing

For a more complete 'picture':

Slightly larger image

Spoiler!

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

There's a special place in hell for those who willingly attempt to pervert the democratic process.

Does that include the people who created first-past-the-post?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Would you same for your home phone provider? Your cell company? Internet provider?



Agreed. This is why there is an Elections Canada/RCMP investigation. Buck will stop with the person(s) who committed the criminal act.



And <insert any car manufacturer> should be bear some blame for all the vehicles used to carry out crimes.

I believe there are special provisions specifically for ISP and Telecommunications providers. I don't think sticking a sign on your door calling
yourself a "service" automatically absolves you of any guilt.

[c.t.ner]

Okay, this is somewhat funny.

It looks like information is leaking that the phone number where the Guelph Election calls came from, was registered to a Pierre Poutine of Seperatist Street, Joliette PQ.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/02/28/pol-robocalls-guelph-pierre-poutine.html

That's at least somewhat comical.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

Okay, this is somewhat funny.

It looks like information is leaking that the phone number where the Guelph Election calls came from, was registered to a Pierre Poutine of Seperatist Street, Joliette PQ.

www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/02/28/pol-robocalls-guelph-pierre-poutine.html

That's at least somewhat comical.

Fixed your link. For some reason it was pointing to http://forum.calgarypuck.com/www.cbc.ca/news/politics...

[NuclearPizzaMan]

This wouldn't be a problem if those in the business of making robocalls (and those that enlist their services) were immediately and publicly executed.


Seriously though, any caught subverting our democracy deserves no mercy.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I believe there are special provisions specifically for ISP and Telecommunications providers. I don't think sticking a sign on your door calling
yourself a "service" automatically absolves you of any guilt.

Read the diagram Rathji posted. It explains how RackNine is a service provider. It's not merely a sign on their door.

[Slava]

Here's another take on this whole issue along with a little more information on the "live" calls that were made to people. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/02/27...alty-democracy

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by zuluking

Read the diagram Rathji posted. It explains how RackNine is a service provider. It's not merely a sign on their door.

I did - it was posted as I was replying (I got interrupted).

It will be interesting to see what happened in the "Identification and Credit Card information to the company for approval" portion.


I'm not suggesting that RackNine should be brought to its knees, simply that with the type of a "service" there should be some due diligence. Providing the "service" someone identifying themselves as "Pierre Poutine of Separatist Street" really does make me question what type of other services they may get away with. No wonder there are so many crappy telemarketing and phishing calls.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I did - it was posted as I was replying (I got interrupted).

It will be interesting to see what happened in the "Identification and Credit Card information to the company for approval" portion.

Matt was on QR77 this AM. He confirmed that information has been turned over. He hasn't "shred it" as some are suggesting on Twitter.

I'm not suggesting that RackNine should be brought to its knees, simply that with the type of a "service" there should be some due diligence. Providing the "service" someone identifying themselves as "Pierre Poutine of Separatist Street" really does make me question what type of other services they may get away with. No wonder there are so many crappy telemarketing and phishing calls.

Rack Nine deals a lot with political parties and candidates. All of those groups have to sign documents (from Elections Canada, Elections Alberta or municipality as the case may be) attesting that the voter lists they are provided will be used only for political purposes and of course within the law.

In my mind it's pretty clear someone violated the this agreement.

[Bobblehead]

An interesting take from a CPC insider.

Have we been accused of being aggressive and rough-and-tumble in the past? Of course. Did we go after Liberal leaders with everything we had? You bet. But did the campaign organize a widespread voter suppression exercise in the 2011 campaign? No way.

And yet, in a matter of only a few days, we’ve gotten to a place where any misleading or erroneous call by a campaign or individual anywhere in the country during 2011 federal election is being treated as the work of Conservative masterminds. But some things don’t add up.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/02/28/w...conservatives/

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Slava

Here's another take on this whole issue along with a little more information on the "live" calls that were made to people. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/02/27...alty-democracy

Warren Kinsella, Slava, really??!? Truly the "pot" is writing opinion columns on the "kettle."

This is an egregious offence to democracy, but let's follow the facts as they come out rather than waste time reading a bunch of exaggerated spew coming from one of the most anti-Conservative blowhards in existence.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by zuluking

Warren Kinsella, Slava, really??!? Truly the "pot" is writing opinion columns on the "kettle."

This is an egregious offence to democracy, but let's follow the facts as they come out rather than waste time reading a bunch of exaggerated spew coming from one of the most anti-Conservative blowhards in existence.

Ya and I don't buy a lot of what he is spewing there, but I hadn't seen the comments from the the live calls anywhere, which is why I posted it.

[c.t.ner]

It looks like Mike Sona (the Conservative staffer who resigned last week) is denying his involvement with the Robocall scandal.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02...s-involvement/

“I wish to address the allegations and accusations levelled against me in the media over the last six days. I have remained silent to this point with the hope that the real guilty party would be apprehended. The rumours continue to swirl, and media are now involving my family, so I feel that it is imperative that I respond.
I had no involvement in the fraudulent phone calls, which also targeted our supporters as can be attested to by our local campaign team and phone records. On Thursday, I offered my resignation to my employer. The role of a staffer is to assist their employer in their responsibilities, and that was impossible to accomplish with the media continually repeating these rumours. It is for that reason and that reason alone that I resigned from my position.”

Couple of things that make this a rather odd admission.

1) He resigned last week really before the story broke. So it's odd that he would resign for something he didn't do, well before the real media frenzy kicked in.

2) It makes Peter MacKay's comments from earlier this week very odd. MacKay said:

“ they’ve identified the individual that was involved in this,” Mr. MacKay told CBC News, without specifically referring to Mr. Sona. “That individual is no longer in the employment of the party.”

Seams to be a lot of smoke building up around this issue.