English woman has racist meltdown on tram - another on a tube

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

I once got called out and I said "Man, I'm sort of tteerrrible inferior creature who will eat your children.

you eat children? FOR SHAME SIR.

[Cube Inmate]

Society's gone too far in forcing people to try to completely ignore individuals' defining characteristics...so far that even being seen to *notice* someone's physical traits constitutes racism. You see a description of a criminal suspect on the news, and what do they say? Height, weight, "dark complexion," etc. Is he a black man, Arab, Indian, dark-skinned white man? We never know, because it's racist to notice these things.

I'm as affected as anyone else by this societal pressure. I don't like it, but maybe it's for the best. Say I play against a soccer team where the one black guy on the team lights us up for 3 goals. What do I say to my team afterwards...?

Me: "That guy was amazing!"
You: "Which one?"
Me: "Er...the one in the blue shirt"
You: "Which blue shirt?"
Me: "You know...he had those green shorts on?"
You: "Oh, the bla...er, the tall guy who could score well. Yes, he was amazing."

In short, if you're being offended by innocuous references to your obvious physical characteristics, place of origin, etc., then you're being too sensitive. If these references are being made specifically to draw negative attention these characteristics, then you've got a legitimate beef. Not necessarily (or even probably) a "hate crime", but something that should be dealt with.

As for the useless waste o' flesh in the original video, that was nothing but (a) disturbing the peace, and (b) child abuse. No hate crime was seen.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ark2

It's a derogatory term, but not racist. A racist comment is one that infers that one race is inferior to another. The word "nip" may be racially insensitive, but in and of itself, it's not racist. If someone were to say: "Nips shouldn't be allowed to vote in this country," then that person has made a racist comment. On the other hand, if someone were to say: "It's nippy in here," then that person is likely just being a jackass.

The woman in that video is surely a racist, but I think too often these days people confuse racially insensitive comments with being racist. I've been called a "wop" before, but no one has ever tried to infringe on my rights because of my heritage. Therefore, I have never had to endure racism. Complaining about some kids calling you "nip" when you were younger is no different than being picked on for being fat, ugly, etc. By no means does that make it right, but let's try to keep things in the proper perspective.

I completely disagree. Using a term like nip is intended to denigrate the other, to place them in a position of lowered status. It's 100% racist. The comparison to being fat/ugly is asinine. Of course those aren't racist, they aren't based upon race.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

That there are very few people who are not racist. And in this context, I mean accepting that your daughter is marrying someone not from their own race/culture/religion.

You live in NY one of the biggest multicultural hubs on the planet, let me ask you this: How many Black/Chinese, Japanese/Jew, Indian/Black, Arab/Korean couples have you seen?

Seriously.

An interesting scoreboard.

Black/Chinese: A couple, although I couldn't tell you if they were Chinese or Korean or Japanese or Tibetan.

Japanese/Jew: Well most Jews don't wear signs, so not sure how many of these couples I've seen. I haven't seen any Hasidic Jews with Asian women if that's what you were asking.

Indian/Black: A fair number, especially if you add in people from the Carribean with Indian features. I haven't seen any Sikh men with black women.

Arab/Korean: I've seen a decent number of Arab men with Asian women before, not tons.

I'm not sure what the point of this survey was. To point out that interracial couples aren't incredibly common? I think your goal was to demonstrate some sort of racism, or at least prejudice, within these particular groups. That may well be the case, but this doesn't establish that in the least. There are a myriad of reasons for these couples to not be common, from simple cultural differences to massive religious differences.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by valo403

I completely disagree. Using a term like nip is intended to denigrate the other, to place them in a position of lowered status. It's 100% racist. The comparison to being fat/ugly is asinine. Of course those aren't racist, they aren't based upon race.

rac·ism   [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Simply calling someone "nip" does not qualify as racist under any of these definitions. It seems that you have just ascribed your own meaning to the word "racism" and are basing your beliefs on that. Perhaps you will argue that it falls under the third definition, but that completely ignores context. The word can be used without the intention of conveying hatred or intolerance. Again, you have to look at what is actually being said and consider the intention behind it.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by valo403

An interesting scoreboard.

Black/Chinese: A couple, although I couldn't tell you if they were Chinese or Korean or Japanese or Tibetan.

Japanese/Jew: Well most Jews don't wear signs, so not sure how many of these couples I've seen. I haven't seen any Hasidic Jews with Asian women if that's what you were asking.

Indian/Black: A fair number, especially if you add in people from the Carribean with Indian features. I haven't seen any Sikh men with black women.

Arab/Korean: I've seen a decent number of Arab men with Asian women before, not tons.

I'm not sure what the point of this survey was. To point out that interracial couples aren't incredibly common? I think your goal was to demonstrate some sort of racism, or at least prejudice, within these particular groups. That may well be the case, but this doesn't establish that in the least. There are a myriad of reasons for these couples to not be common, from simple cultural differences to massive religious differences.

and don't forget racism.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Azure

Absolutely disturbing the peace.

But not even close to a hate crime.

And really guys, you want the government to take her kid away? Once we start that, where are we going to stop?

You can have your children taken away for what the state considers a racist act.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-son-Hons.html

I half expected this thread to be about a female friend of mine in Leeds, England. She's pretty salty when it comes to darker skinned immigrants in her city.

Cowperson

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by valo403

What lesson would that be? That other cultures have racist people too? Shocking.

Some people do seem to think that way. I remember in one of my university courses, we had a discussion about racism. A black guy in the class commented that all white people are racist to a degree whether they think they are or not. The prof pointed out that such a statement was in fact racist, where the student replied; "How can I be racist? I'm black!?". I remember an Indian student was surprised that not every white guy with a shaved head was making a Nazi statement.

Racism is terrible and exists everywhere, but outside of the western world, most places don't even bother trying to curb it. At least here, we have laws against it and many advocacy groups. I wonder how many non-white immigrants from traditionally non-white countries tried to combat racism against white people before they immigrated?

Even in Canada, I lived for most of my childhood in a town with a large first nations population and can't tell you how many times I (and other white kids) were bullied by natives. I mean with real violence, not just derogatory words. Being an immigrant family didn't help either as other white people weren't fully accepting.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Simply calling someone "nip" does not qualify as racist under any of these definitions. It seems that you have just ascribed your own meaning to the word "racism" and are basing your beliefs on that. Perhaps you will argue that it falls under the third definition, but that completely ignores context. The word can be used without the intention of conveying hatred or intolerance. Again, you have to look at what is actually being said and consider the intention behind it.

That's exactly what I've done, and why it clearly falls under the third prong. Of course the word can be used without conveying hatred or intolerance, that's not how it was used in the example presented.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Yasa

and don't forget racism.

Right, which is why I said that may well be the case.

[Zee]

As far as I'm concerned, describing someone is not racist... so words like "black guy", "brown chick", "Asian dude", should not be offensive to anyone, people that are offended by this are too uptight. It's when you start using words like paki, ni**er, nip, chink, cracker, wop etc. that's when you cross the line. Unbelievable that anyone things these words are acceptable...

Me and my friends are all different races, and we joke about each others racial stereotypes all the time, but we do so in jest, without malicious intent, and play on what we both can laugh at.

When I was growing up, racism against visible minorities was fully acceptable in schools, I'm glad the kids today do not have to go through the same thing.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by valo403

That's exactly what I've done, and why it clearly falls under the third prong. Of course the word can be used without conveying hatred or intolerance, that's not how it was used in the example presented.

Nope, that's not what you've done at all actually:

Originally Posted by valo403

are you joking? A derogatory word used against people of a certain race isn't racist?

The stupid, it burns.

One post said the word is not racist, you responded with incredulous disbelief and called him stupid. I don't you see you referring to context anywhere.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Nope, that's not what you've done at all actually:



One post said the word is not racist, you responded with incredulous disbelief and called him stupid. I don't you see you referring to context anywhere.

Oh I'm sorry, do I have to quote an entire string of posts to satisfy you? There is one specific incident of use of the word that has been discussed in this thread, it's actually become pretty much the major topic of the thread. The fact you can't put two and two together isn't my issue.

Oh, and please go back to my initial post on the issue. Notice the use of the word 'derogatory'. See that denotes that it wasn't being used to discuss weather or human anatomy, so the context is quite clear.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Your complaining more than anyone in this thread, wishing for times when our nation was more free to be more racist and proud of it without people being able to get defensive?
I guess I see why you're bitter about it; things just aren't as good for you as they used to be.
People standing up to racism, gays getting married, women working! what's next!?

Yup, ...that must be it......

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by valo403

Oh I'm sorry, do I have to quote an entire string of posts to satisfy you? There is one specific incident of use of the word that has been discussed in this thread, it's actually become pretty much the major topic of the thread. The fact you can't put two and two together isn't my issue.

Oh, and please go back to my initial post on the issue. Notice the use of the word 'derogatory'. See that denotes that it wasn't being used to discuss weather or human anatomy, so the context is quite clear.

The context is not clear. Racial slurs can be used in many different ways, to convey many different meanings. You used a blanket statement and said that the word is racist and that anyone who disagrees is stupid. Plain and simple. A word is not racist. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ark2

The context is not clear. Racial slurs can be used in many different ways, to convey many different meanings. You used a blanket statement and said that the word is racist and that anyone who disagrees is stupid. Plain and simple. A word is not racist. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you.

Again, there was an example presented earlier in the thread. It was being discussed. The context is clear. And to make it even more clear I pointed out that it was being used in a derogatory manner. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by valo403

I'm not sure what the point of this survey was. To point out that interracial couples aren't incredibly common? I think your goal was to demonstrate some sort of racism, or at least prejudice, within these particular groups. That may well be the case, but this doesn't establish that in the least. There are a myriad of reasons for these couples to not be common, from simple cultural differences to massive religious differences.

We're laying in the shadow of your family tree
Your haunted heart and me
Brought down by an old idea whose time has come
And in the shadow of the gallows of your family tree
There's a hundred hearts soar free
Pumping blood to the roots of evil to keep it young

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Ark2

The context is not clear. Racial slurs can be used in many different ways, to convey many different meanings. You used a blanket statement and said that the word is racist and that anyone who disagrees is stupid. Plain and simple. A word is not racist. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you.

I happen to disagree with you, a derogatory racial slang word when directed at a person regardless of the context is racist.

This isn't the world of Archie Bunker where you can say "Hey that nip is a pretty nice guy" or "That wop is a hard worker". Words like that in any context are racist and not acceptable.

[Stay Golden]

I can just imagine what kind of racist comments are on youtube for that clip.
The mother sounded like she was drunk. I don't think she dropped enough f bombs.

What a role model

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Ark2

The context is not clear. Racial slurs can be used in many different ways, to convey many different meanings. You used a blanket statement and said that the word is racist and that anyone who disagrees is stupid. Plain and simple. A word is not racist. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you.

Yes I'm sure those guys on the bus called me a nip used it as a term of endearment. They don't know who I am. They were mocking me because of my race. Nothing more. Yes the word in itself without context may not be racist, but they used it in a derogatory manner to mock my race. That's racist.