Occupy Calgary/Do Not Merge

[getbak]

Originally Posted by RedJester

Can't figure out why they're protesting? Do you not watch the news or something?

Quite frankly I'm surprised it took this long.

They're protesting the news? I can understand that. The news sucks.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Freeway

How do I "occupy" Calgary? I'm already here...

That's usually the hardest part of occupying somewhere, so you're way ahead of the game.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I have voted in all elections since I turned of age. Federal, Provincial, and Municipal (cept one I was in the hospital). I have even worked taking votes twice at Federal elections.

And no, obviously asking for the same requirement is stupid. I think what your asking me is, 'are all the people there acting on responsible grounds and ideals?' To which I say, very possibly not. But then I have to ask you to judge what is worthwhile and what is not. And one has to ask how many of serious protesters ANYWHERE, including ones who have overthrown dictators, didn't get get in because of something selfish, or even because they got swept up.

If you want to engage with serious debate, I will reply. You are usually one of the better posters. But I'm not going to reply to the next 'comment/joke for fun'.

My posts weren't joking, I was being fairly serious.

It great to say that your fighting for democracy, but I would bet that a lot of those people didn't take advantage of one of the basic tenants of democracy which is the vote.

I look at the demands of electorial reforms in the vision area where its the same tired argument that 60% of Canadians didn't vote for the government so why do they have a majority. But you can't protest for electorial reform if you don't understand a multiple party system.

I was serious when I said that I must be part of the 1% because none of that stuff resonated with me, and you came back with the snide remark about fighting for me, honestly I don't need someone fighting for me when I don't agree with most of thier concepts.

I respect the anger of the occupy movement, especially in the U.S. where when you cut through some of the wackier elements there is a real small unprotected minority that are truly getting a$$f###ed and good for them for crying out, but they're not getting heard because of the rest of that movement.

In Calgary your part of a country that despite the global crisis, and our neighbours struggles have made some very good moves to protect themselves, we have low unemployement, and yes while you pay tuition and it does increase, a large chunk of that is subsidized unlike the States where you pay for everything.

We have a good social program net, and especially in Calgary if you want to work you'll work, it might not be in your chosen field but you have options.

Are there people that are having a genuinly tough time out there, absolutely, but this protest will more then likely drown them out instead of them being heard.

[JiriHrdina]

One thing to keep in mind - if you can't articulate with any specificity what or why you are protesting - it is that much harder for the media to cover your protest with any sort of effectiveness.

Media attention is one of the main reasons for doing this - but without clarity you may end up being very disappointed with how they present the story.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Not even the vets who are going there?

I didn't hijack anything, I gave CC a smart assed response to an equally smart assed post. But you'd be foolish to think that vets aren't represented in these movements. In fact, as a group that was largely ignored for their contributions in the States, they are among the most vocal.

So no, I can't speak for them, but if you want to speak to some of them, you could come down, or get involved.

No, I won't be there, but don't forget to send us updates with your iPhone... It's supposed to get nippy this week, so make sure you stay warm with some snow pants from walmart and a tall latte from Starbucks. It might get packed DT, so you better leave your jetta at home. And don't forget to PVR the Canucks game.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

My posts weren't joking, I was being fairly serious.

It great to say that your fighting for democracy, but I would bet that a lot of those people didn't take advantage of one of the basic tenants of democracy which is the vote.

I look at the demands of electorial reforms in the vision area where its the same tired argument that 60% of Canadians didn't vote for the government so why do they have a majority. But you can't protest for electorial reform if you don't understand a multiple party system.

I was serious when I said that I must be part of the 1% because none of that stuff resonated with me, and you came back with the snide remark about fighting for me, honestly I don't need someone fighting for me when I don't agree with most of thier concepts.

I respect the anger of the occupy movement, especially in the U.S. where when you cut through some of the wackier elements there is a real small unprotected minority that are truly getting a$$f###ed and good for them for crying out, but they're not getting heard because of the rest of that movement.

In Calgary your part of a country that despite the global crisis, and our neighbours struggles have made some very good moves to protect themselves, we have low unemployement, and yes while you pay tuition and it does increase, a large chunk of that is subsidized unlike the States where you pay for everything.

We have a good social program net, and especially in Calgary if you want to work you'll work, it might not be in your chosen field but you have options.

Are there people that are having a genuinly tough time out there, absolutely, but this protest will more then likely drown them out instead of them being heard.

I don't disagree with most of what you have said except the last part. It is better in Canada, and we do have quite a ways to go before we end up like the States. But as I said before, 'as goes the US, so does Canada.' I would like to think that highlighting the issues now would prevent later disaster. I would also think that for as often as I get accused of being anti-American, that participating in something that might help them, would prove I do think we are neighbours and I do want them to succeed. If even if showing solidarity with those in the States that are getting f***ed, as you put it, is the best thing we are doing, then isn't that a good thing?

As I said, the only part I really disagree with is the end. I'm not sure how taking time out and bringing up issues and a healthy amount of dissent will drown out people who are having a genuinely tough time. As a family in that category, feeling we don't have a voice, having already jumped the hoops and getting caught in the tape, I don't understand how this could be more of a waste of time than many of the other things I have done. Or more importantly were told to me I should do. As I've posted a few times, we're not trying to stop anything, just highlight issues. Just remind those in power and at the top, as good as things are, there are still serious problems.

I understand if it looks pointless, or misguided. I would just rather do something, than nothing. We in North America have been taking our democracy for granted for a while now. It never hurts to kick it in the butt every once in a while.

I do very much appreciate your last post though Capt. Thank you.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

No, I won't be there, but don't forget to send us updates with your iPhone... It's supposed to get nippy this week, so make sure you stay warm with some snow pants from walmart and a tall latte from Starbucks. It might get packed DT, so you better leave your jetta at home. And don't forget to PVR the Canucks game.

Wow, you know me so well. Haha!

No iPhone,
Boycott Starbucks
Boycott Walmart
No PVR
Hate the Canucks.
No car.

You actually literally (HONESTLY) got every single one wrong.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

One thing to keep in mind - if you can't articulate with any specificity what or why you are protesting - it is that much harder for the media to cover your protest with any sort of effectiveness.

Media attention is one of the main reasons for doing this - but without clarity you may end up being very disappointed with how they present the story.

I commented on that on the very first page of the other occupy thread. As I said in my first post here.

I am articulating here that I am just exercising democracy. It was more meant to be an invitation/heads up/update, but I ended up having to defend myself.

When people don't participate in freedom, they eventually lose it. We are seeing that very nearby. Think of this as a vaccination so we never need surgery.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

In Calgary your part of a country that despite the global crisis, and our neighbours struggles have made some very good moves to protect themselves, we have low unemployement, and yes while you pay tuition and it does increase, a large chunk of that is subsidized unlike the States where you pay for everything.

We have a good social program net, and especially in Calgary if you want to work you'll work, it might not be in your chosen field but you have options.

And that's the biggest problem here. Protests can be effective... if you are acting against a specific grievance. But given that things in Calgary aren't all that bad for a very large majority of the population, it is hard for people to get upset.

"Occupy Calgary"? It just feels like a hipster protest. Fighting the man. Why? Well, we have no idea, but fighting the man is the 'in' thing to do these days, and we're going to do it!

[jammies]

I think what the protesters want is right in the title of the event - empowerment. If you're too cynical or thick to understand that this is important, that's your own failing, not theirs.

Of course there will be be a lot of loonies out there who just want someone to give them pretty things. There always a quotient of fringe idiots in any demographic you care to examine, so why should protesters be any different? That doesn't mean that protest is not worthwhile - anyone with an inkling of how democracy SHOULD work should applaud this event, whether or its goals or against them. You cannot maintain a vibrant democracy with a uniformly apathetic and disengaged constituency.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Wow, you know me so well. Haha!

No iPhone,
Boycott Starbucks
Boycott Walmart
No PVR
Hate the Canucks.
No car.

You actually literally (HONESTLY) got every single one wrong.

Anyways, I'm just poking fun- protest away.

[Boblobla]

I just struggle with protesting for the sake of protesting being a way to maintain democracy. Protest all you want, that same democracy gives me the right to think the whole thing is pointless.

[Ozy_Flame]

If you don't have anything to protest, don't show up. Feel free to make smarmy remarks about the whole thing, but even if some people don't understand the reasons for protesting, there are plenty of people who do.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

If you don't have anything to protest, don't show up. Feel free to make smarmy remarks about the whole thing, but even if some people don't understand the reasons for protesting, there are plenty of people who do.

Could you get them to come on here and explain it to us?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I am articulating here that I am just exercising democracy. It was more meant to be an invitation/heads up/update, but I ended up having to defend myself.

When people don't participate in freedom, they eventually lose it. We are seeing that very nearby. Think of this as a vaccination so we never need surgery.

I like how you responded to Jiri's complaint about how these protests are unspecified with more unspecified arguments. "Just exercising democracy"? Some vapid argument that not protesting means we risk losing freedom?

Don't get me wrong, I respect your right to protest, and I would never say "you're an idiot for joining in", but the purpose of this is so vague that I simply can't bring myself to care. To me, your expression of democracy is akin to writing in "none of the above" on an election ballot. Yeah, you expressed yourself, but in the end you have failed to accomplish anything.

And the truly sad part is that if you go down to City Hall on any given weekend, there is usually a group protesting something. Pro-military, anti-war, pro-Libyian rebels, anti-rodeo, etc. These people have specific messages they want to get out to the public, and only the people who happen to be traveling down 1st S.E. ever see it. Yet this mess of a protest will probably be the lead story on the evening news. A fairly sad reflection on what we place our values in, if you ask me.

[Ozy_Flame]

The whole Occupy protests will fizzle out eventually, but for now, people are riding the protest wave. Some have legitimate gripes, some do not. Depends what you consider legitimate I guess.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I can't understand half of what is being said in this thread.

Will the frisbee golf course be disturbed? Enthusiasts demand to know!

Poser, it's called Frolf....

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I commented on that on the very first page of the other occupy thread. As I said in my first post here.

I am articulating here that I am just exercising democracy. It was more meant to be an invitation/heads up/update, but I ended up having to defend myself.

When people don't participate in freedom, they eventually lose it. We are seeing that very nearby. Think of this as a vaccination so we never need surgery.

Sure but if you want effective media coverage you need to think about that.

Here's how the media will likely cover it
- They will show up and grab b-roll/sound of the protests
- They'll want to talk to an organizer and get a 10-15 second focused sound bite on why they are doing this
- They will talk to some random protesters about why they are there. You can't control this but what this protest says will be a big part of the story and reflect on the event as a whole.
- They will likely package the story around the protest being part of the wider occupy movement

If you have a message you want to get out there you need to think about the answer to the question "why are you doing this" and make sure you and all your people are capable of providing a consistent, concise message. Ideally you should be providing the media with a fact sheet, or background information outlining who you are, what you want and who the protest is targeting - with supporting information.

Based on what I read here though I can see this coming off as just a bunch of people protesting for the sake of protesting. The absence of a real focus or desire action coming from the protest makes it tough for the media to cover it well.

[RedJester]

Originally Posted by getbak

They're protesting the news? I can understand that. The news sucks.

Among many other things wrong with the political and corporate systems in United States, yeah. I know you're joking, but you're actually kind of right.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yet this mess of a protest will probably be the lead story on the evening news. A fairly sad reflection on what we place our values in, if you ask me.

Yup but it probably won't be the story the organizers are hoping for unless they can bring some focus to the event.

Frankly I could pump out a script for how this story would be covered right now - but the most critical part will be the sound bites. If organizers and participants can sum up with a great deal of clarity why they are doing this - it won't come off well.