The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Yep, Calgary is closer to Winnipeg than Toronto and that's a 12-14 hour drive. Toronto is about 900km further.

Yeah I've never driven to Winnipeg, just pointing out nobody in the Bay area commutes from LA. That's just dumb. Like I said, most athletes in the Bay area live in the Bay area. Santa Clara, Los Gatos, Saratoga, Menlo Park... which is really not that different then a team like (I'm guessing) Pheonix.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

From where to where? Which highway? San Jose to LA, or Oakland to LA? Just to the border of LA? What kind of traffic, or in the middle of the night?

Because that makes a big difference, ya know...

I've never heard of anyone that lives in LA and commutes to the Bay area for work. Some weekends, but thats it. The most ridiculous I've heard is Sacramento.

Well I did time it well, I left at 11pm at night not wanting to hit rush hour traffic on either end - think I took I-5 (does that sound right? Not 100% sure, but I5 rings a bell). And I am certainly not suggesting that I would want to do that as a commute - moreso pointing out that Oakland has awesome family stuff like Disneyland and Universal Studios within a half days drive - Winnipeg only has the city of Winnipeg, nothing at all of note is within (reasonable) driving distance.

[PackersFan]

Originally Posted by Scrollbar

Does Green Bay have problems signing free agents? How about Oakland? Are those world class cities? Yes I know Oakland is close to San Fran and LA and San Jose but the point stands.

You can't compare NHL cities to NFL cities when it comes to signing free agents. If you were to take money, weather, location off the table, I bet almost every player would want to play in

NFL - Green Bay - The mecca of football
NHL - Toronto or Montreal - The 2 most storied franchises
MLB - New York Yankees - #1 team in the world
NBA - who cares.

I am willing to say that a higher % of NHL players care more about winning the Stanley Cup than money. Let me explain. If you said to every player in the NHL, you will be paid 2 million dollars this year and win the Stanley Cup, OR be paid 3 million and not win, I bet 95% take the 2 million.

If you flip that with either NBA or MLB, I say it is more like 50%.

For any team in the NHL to be a contender, you need a minimum of 3 star players (check the list of Stanley Cup winning teams) Right now, Phoenix has zero. But I bet True North makes some great pitches to some UFA's this summer. They want the 'Jets' to succeed, not just survive like the Coyotes are now.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Winnipeg only has the city of Winnipeg, nothing at all of note is within (reasonable) driving distance.

Minneapolis is 6 hours away. You've heard of the Mall of America? Valley Fair?

Go to lake of the woods, 2 hour drive from Winnipeg. Many NHL players own cabins in Manitoba and Northern Ontario. Winnipeg has some sick cabin country within a hour drive, sure it's not the rockies but some damn nice lakes.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

You clearly dont understand the pull family has, the vast majority of women and childern want to be warm and close to family attractions - Winnipeg will, in turn, be one of the league's worst options for the aforementioned things.

If you think the "city means very little", I think you're dead wrong.

I think you're also underestimating the impact that a short career span and earning window has on the mindset of a player considering their options.

While an NHL player may make a lot more money than most human beings, they still face tough decisions around family security, etc... Afterall, Patrick Ewing was concerned in the late 90's about his ability to put his kids through college and he made more money in 1 day than I probably make in a year!

Each has their own set of needs / wants. The majority of them will be looking for a situation that is best for their career. Those options include pay, term, role on the team, etc... For the majority, location may come into play if the other factors line up for them.

Just look at Glencross as an example. The last contract he signed was more about getting a opportunity to establish himself as a key 2nd line forward. Some teams couldn't/wouldn't offer that. The Flames did and they signed him. It was probably a bonus that he ended up close to home. Now (according to what he says publicly) he's looking for term and a decent contract that will provide his family with stability for when his playing days are done and will go to the team that can offer that combination.

Tanguay is another example. He'll probably take a discount to play in Calgary. Playing in a nice warm climate like Tampa didn't work form him and almost killed his career. He responds in a certain environment and Calgary can offer that, despite the possibility that Calgary may never see summer this year.

You also have to figure that each FA (aside from some of the big ticket guys) might only get interest from 3 or 4 different teams and all may be able to offer something different. It's not like these guys get offers from all 30 teams.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by troutman

fyp

Maybe, but once they get rich they want no part of places like Edmonton or Winnipeg (probably Calgary too, to a lesser extent). Anyone who is a desirable UFA has most definatley already become rich, so that is really a non sequitur.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Well I did time it well, I left at 11pm at night not wanting to hit rush hour traffic on either end - think I took I-5 (does that sound right? Not 100% sure, but I5 rings a bell). And I am certainly not suggesting that I would want to do that as a commute - moreso pointing out that Oakland has awesome family stuff like Disneyland and Universal Studios within a half days drive - Winnipeg only has the city of Winnipeg, nothing at all of note is within (reasonable) driving distance.

Yeah, thats sort of true. At 11pm, from South SJ to hitting the edge of LA, I could see it. I-5 going 80mph past 11pm can be done in 5 hrs. That's not gonna happen in the day, and I'm sure they'd probably rather fly. The I-5 is boring as hell to drive, like driving Calgary-Edmonton. I'd imagine wanting to raise a family in the Bay area is fine, lots of Calaway Park type's here, SF, Santa Cruz, Monterrey, etc.

Either way, besides the point. Winnipeg isn't going to be as exciting as the Bay area or LA or NY, I agree.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Maybe, but once they get rich they want no part of places like Edmonton or Winnipeg (probably Calgary too, to a lesser extent). Anyone who is a desirable UFA has most definatley already become rich, so that is really a non sequitur.

Ballpark estimate...
50% goes to taxes
17% goes to escrow

They're left with 33% to live off of. 33% of a few million is still pretty good, but the majority will end their careers in their early 30's and need some stability for their future.

The majority of them dodged their way through highschool and skipped university leaving their career prospects as:
- leverage their career (commentator, analyst, etc...
- find a career in the public sector

Those options don't pay NHL dollars, so they need to find the best solution for their playing days to set them up for the days after they retire.

As Patrick Ewing said..."I might make a lot of money, but I spend a lot of money'

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Minneapolis is 6 hours away. You've heard of the Mall of America? Valley Fair?

Go to lake of the woods, 2 hour drive from Winnipeg. Many NHL players own cabins in Manitoba and Northern Ontario. Winnipeg has some sick cabin country within a hour drive, sure it's not the rockies but some damn nice lakes.

Actually, when it comes to swimming and water related sports, I'll take the warm lakes in Manitoba and Northern Ontario over the icy rivers and hydroelectric resevoirs of the Rockies.

Having said that, players can live where ever they want in the offseason, so while those are perks for the year round resident, I don't think they sell a city during hockey season.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Minneapolis is 6 hours away. You've heard of the Mall of America?

LOL - yeah I have. Probably a cool thing to go to every now and then if you live close by, but something you'd drive 12+ hours to go to?

To each his own I suppose, but I can assure you rich NHL wives would find a 12 hour round trip a bit much to hit a big mall.

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Go to lake of the woods, 2 hour drive from Winnipeg. Many NHL players own cabins in Manitoba and Northern Ontario. Winnipeg has some sick cabin country within a hour drive, sure it's not the rockies but some damn nice lakes.

I agree it awesome country, I really like Lake of the Woods area.....in the summer!! I have never been in the winter but common sense, and the weather channel, tell me it would be hell on wheels. How many NHL'ers spend summers in the same city they play anyways? 1%? They all have they're own little spots (as you mention, I am sure some are in Manitoba) they head off to in the offseason, so being close to a place like Lake of the Woods doesnt really help Winnipeg in terms of becoming an attractive destination to NHL players and their families.

[troutman]

A few Jets questions...
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spe...120198424.html

4) Will they still be called the Jets?

I think at this point they have to be, but I’m told otherwise. The bottom line will be the fans, and the fans want the Jets name. Go Jets Go has been the most popular chant in this province every year since ‘96. I wouldn’t even worry about the "Winnipeg" thing either. I grew up in the country. I wasn’t offended that they weren’t the Manitoba Jets. Nor was anyone I know, and we all bought tickets regularly. The same went for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers. We didn’t mind. In fact we never thought about it. Much like everyone I l know who is not from Brandon likes the Brandon Wheat Kings.

8) Will Curt Keilback be the radio voice of the Jets?

No idea. I don’t know who will get the radio rights and if they want Curt or not... but man he was awesome. "Ess-en-sa the save!" and "The Wraaap Around!" being two of the greatest calls in Winnipeg radio history.

9) Will we detest other teams again?

Listen, much has changed since ‘96. There are Oiler fans everywhere. Kids wear Flames hats and jerseys to school everyday. Apparently Vancouver is popular these days, which I still find weird. Will it instantly be US vs. THEM... THEM being every other team except the twice yearly visits from the Habs or the Leafs, when the crowd was split 50/50? This is a tricky one. Kids have grown up with Sidney and Alex as their favourite players, not Hawerchuk, Selanne or Hull. That said, the first player I ever loved was Guy Lafleur... who was soon replaced by Doug Smail and a lifelong devotion to the Jets.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

Ballpark estimate...
50% goes to taxes
17% goes to escrow

They're left with 33% to live off of. 33% of a few million is still pretty good, but the majority will end their careers in their early 30's and need some stability for their future.

The majority of them dodged their way through highschool and skipped university leaving their career prospects as:
- leverage their career (commentator, analyst, etc...
- find a career in the public sector

Those options don't pay NHL dollars, so they need to find the best solution for their playing days to set them up for the days after they retire.

As Patrick Ewing said..."I might make a lot of money, but I spend a lot of money'

Not sure what you're debating here? That every NHL team has the exact same drawing power because they all pay money and NHL'ers need said money cause they wont earn it forever? That Winnipeg is going to have such a great franchise that they'll be the "best solution" for every big free agent that hits the market? Why would Winnipeg be able to draw players any better then Edmonton? Give me one reason.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Minneapolis is 6 hours away. You've heard of the Mall of America? Valley Fair?

Its not just the size of the mall, its upper class exclusivity none of us really know about. There are stores, bars and restaurants that are by invitation only or its impossible to get a table reservation, and private or exclusive events that money might not even buy you in. Granted, I don't think everyone is Lauren Pronger, but living in Winnipeg and driving 6 hrs to a mall isn't really going to be the selling point for Winnipeg. I think Winnipeg is going to struggle unless they are a winning franchise. Winning will solve a lot of problems. Losing will be, well... Edmonton/Prongergate/Nylandergate/et al.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Not sure what you're debating here? That every NHL team has the exact same drawing power because they all pay money and NHL'ers need said money cause they wont earn it forever? That Winnipeg is going to have such a great franchise that they'll be the "best solution" for every big free agent that hits the market? Why would Winnipeg be able to draw players any better then Edmonton? Give me one reason.

The point is that the idea of location and trophy wives dictating that players sign in warm climates isn't as big of a factor as you originally suggested.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by PackersFan

If you were to take money, weather, location off the table, I bet almost every player would want to play in

NFL - Green Bay - The mecca of football
NHL - Toronto or Montreal - The 2 most storied franchises
MLB - New York Yankees - #1 team in the world

That's a pretty massive assumption. I bet there are as many people who absolutely hate those teams as there are who love them, if not more.

You seem to forget that athletes also grew up as fans, and thus have their own biases. If for some magical reason I were lucky enough to play in the NHL and had the choice if teams regardless of salary, I sure as hell wouldn't want to play for a team like the Leafs that I've hated all my life.

The Yankees can also lick my nutsack.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

The point is that the idea of location and trophy wives dictating that players sign in warm climates isn't as big of a factor as you originally suggested.

Is that right? What team (and which players on said team) would you care to use as an example of that?

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Is that right? What team (and which players on said team) would you care to use as an example of that?

When was the last time the Panthers had a BIG free agent signing?

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Is that right? What team (and which players on said team) would you care to use as an example of that?

Same question to you?

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

When was the last time the Panthers had a BIG free agent signing?

Never...? Not sure what you're getting at, the Panthers also havent made the playoffs in 11 years, never spend close to the cap and trade away any player who gets good and commands large money - not exactly a model franchise.

Come to think of it, with their budget, Florida may have never even attempted to sign a big name UFA, hard to do so when you're 10-15 million under the cap.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

Same question to you?

Old Winnipeg Jets, Edmonton Oilers, Calgary Flames and to a lesser extent, the Minnesota Northstars/Wild.

BTW, you still haven't anwsered me, and I asked first. I wont respond to you again if your going to cherry pick my posts like that.