4 in 10 Americans Still Hold Creationist Views

[Displaced Flames fan]

Thanks photon.

I don't think my antecdotal evdience is representative of the majority simply because it is what I was exposed to. What I do find hard to refute is that for the last 25 years or so in which I've been questioning all I was taught as a young person in this area, I haven't heard of young earth creationism until last year. I would think something that 40% of American's believe would be common knowledge. Further, I don't consider myself someone who relies only on common knowledge to obtain my own. I explore.

I think the way the questions are worded stack the deck for this kind of result. It's not really asking if you believe that the earth is 10000 years old, it's asking if you accept evolution.

[photon]

From the opening statement of the article in the OP:

"If you're in a room of 100 people, odds are likely about 40 think God created humans about 10,000 years ago"

The poll is about what it is about, it's not about the earth being 10,000 years old, it's as you say about human origins. How is the deck being stacked?

If someone takes this poll and tries to apply that to people who think the earth is young as well, of course that's not going to be completely accurate. But it does give some indication, since you can't believe in both special creation of the earth 10,000 years ago AND evolution of humans over millions of years, so it gives you one boundary value for people who believe in a young earth.

And I don't see much difference between believing the earth is 10,000 years old and that humans were created 10,000 years ago, they're equally laughable.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Thanks photon.

I don't think my antecdotal evdience is representative of the majority simply because it is what I was exposed to. What I do find hard to refute is that for the last 25 years or so in which I've been questioning all I was taught as a young person in this area, I haven't heard of young earth creationism until last year. I would think something that 40% of American's believe would be common knowledge. Further, I don't consider myself someone who relies only on common knowledge to obtain my own. I explore.

I think the way the questions are worded stack the deck for this kind of result. It's not really asking if you believe that the earth is 10000 years old, it's asking if you accept evolution.

I do think your experience is very representative among the majority of people who go to Church every Sunday and some religious groups are have noticeably higher attendance rates among members. People who go to Church 1 or 2 times a year, or less, I really don't count as religious, or remotely educated about their religion, so counting what they personally believe as a representation of what their Church teaches is probably not gong to give you a very good result.

It is like taking a country wide test of school aged kids, where 80% of the kids don't ever attend school, and then condemning the school system because of the stupid answers people gave.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by photon

From the opening statement of the article in the OP:

"If you're in a room of 100 people, odds are likely about 40 think God created humans about 10,000 years ago"

The poll is about what it is about, it's not about the earth being 10,000 years old, it's as you say about human origins. How is the deck being stacked?

If someone takes this poll and tries to apply that to people who think the earth is young as well, of course that's not going to be completely accurate. But it does give some indication, since you can't believe in both special creation of the earth 10,000 years ago AND evolution of humans over millions of years, so it gives you one boundary value for people who believe in a young earth.

And I don't see much difference between believing the earth is 10,000 years old and that humans were created 10,000 years ago, they're equally laughable.

I disagree on a couple of levels.

First, I don't think they are equally laughable at all. I think the notion that the Earth is 10000 years old is far more ludicrous than the notion that man was created by something other than nature. I don't laugh at people who believe in creation, but I would laugh uncontrollably at someone who was trying to convince me Earth is 10000 years old.

Secondly, for people of faith, when given the choice between accepting creationism and the Earth being young (which is essentially the choice here) it may be more difficult for them to go with evolution over a new Earth. Why isn't there a 4th question? God created Earth 6 Billion years ago?

You do realize, I hope, that I am not arguing my own beliefs here. I just think you can create poll questions to get the result you want.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Actually the belief in nothing and that when you die everything is black and gone is believed by a minority.

Do the research yourself.

Here's one from wikipedia:

Irreligiosity (atheism, agnosticism) is highest in Canada and the US (Canada: 16% USA: 15%), and accounts for roughly 10% of North American population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_North_America

and if you think wikipedia is biased then honestly, anything written by a human being is.

Actually, a belief that there is no deity is also a belief. Nobody has ever proved that there isn't. Nor will anyone ever be able to.

The belief in nothing {eg atheism} is growing faster than most theists want to believe. It also holds true that the belief in something {eg Gods} is slowly declining. I have done the research.
The more educated man becomes the less likely one is to hold onto religion of any kind.
The most religious countries are found in Africa and Southeast Asia.







USA Poll

[photon]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I disagree on a couple of levels.

First, I don't think they are equally laughable at all. I think the notion that the Earth is 10000 years old is far more ludicrous than the notion that man was created by something other than nature. I don't laugh at people who believe in creation, but I would laugh uncontrollably at someone who was trying to convince me Earth is 10000 years old.

The amount of evidence for an old earth and for an evolved man are equally strong. Creating man 10,000 years ago to look evolved over millions of years and creating earth 10,000 years ago to look 4.5 billion years old both seem equally probable to me. I don't see how one can be more or less ludicrous than the other.

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Secondly, for people of faith, when given the choice between acception creationism and the Earth being young (which is essentially the choice here) it may be more difficult for them to go with evolution over a new Earth. Why isn't there a 4th question? God created Earth 6 Billion years ago?

There isn't a fourth question in this case because the question is about human origins, not the origin of the earth or the universe. That and they've kept the questions consistent over time to be able to track the data, change the questions and you have a new set of data, which means you can't compare it to old data.

I agree with you, the way the questions are phrased people who believe in a 4.5 billion year old earth would be combined with those that believe in a 6,000 year old earth, but since the question is about human origins, that doesn't matter. Those that believe in a global flood and those that don't would be combined based on their views on human origins as well. Heck even non-Christians that believed in special creation would be combined with Christians.

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

You do realize, I hope, that I am not arguing my own beliefs here. I just think you can create poll questions to get the result you want.

Of course, and I agree you can manipulate polls. I think the questions here are clear enough for their purpose though, human origins. To take that and extrapolate people's views on the age of the earth from it is incorrect as you say.

If you did include the age of the earth in the poll I suspect you would find more people accepting of an old earth than would accept an evolved human, but nothing revolves around the question of the age of the earth for most Christians theologically. There's enough wiggle room in Genesis that all but the most staunch literalists could slide in a 4.5 billion year old earth. But evolution cuts right to the heart of some Christian's doctrine; original sin. Without Adam and Eve there's no original sin, without original sin there's no need for redemption, no need for Jesus.

So while they'll accept a 4.5 billion year old earth because it isn't a threat, they reject evolution because it contradicts their beliefs. Neither based on actual evidence.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by bradster57

How do other peoples religions inhibit your personal freedom? Nations built upon Christian values are the most free nations in the world (with the exception of Japan and Israel.)

but usually the more religious a christian value nation is the less freedoms they have.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

but usually the more religious a christian value nation is the less freedoms they have.

What?

Can you give some examples?

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

What?

Can you give some examples?

you mean like gay rights and abortion,

[Displaced Flames fan]

NM...misunderstood you

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

What?

Can you give some examples?

Not sure if this is what he was getting at or not...I would clearly believe they have less rights in Africa and parts of Asia than we do...but I could be wrong.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Not sure if this is what he was getting at or not...I would clearly believe they have less rights in Africa and parts of Asia than we do...but I could be wrong.

Yeah, I completely misunderstood what he was saying.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

No, I mean like specific countries.

as it appears that the US has the highest percent of christian followers do you not think it a coincendence that they tend to be one of the last christian countries, regarding certain issues, to allow certain freedoms or rights in the last 50 years or so.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Not sure if this is what he was getting at or not...I would clearly believe they have less rights in Africa and parts of Asia than we do...but I could be wrong.

did I not say Christian value nations?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

as it appears that the US has the highest percent of christian followers do you not think it a coincendence that they tend to be one of the last christian countries, regarding certain issues, to allow certain freedoms or rights in the last 50 years or so.

As I said above, I misunderstood what you were saying.

That said, the US does NOT have the highest percentage of 'christian followers'.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

As I said above, I misunderstood what you were saying.

That said, the US does NOT have the highest percentage of 'christian followers'.

is not the US one of the most religious nations that are christian based and developed?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by photon

From the opening statement of the article in the OP:

"If you're in a room of 100 people, odds are likely about 40 think God created humans about 10,000 years ago"

The poll is about what it is about, it's not about the earth being 10,000 years old, it's as you say about human origins. How is the deck being stacked?

If someone takes this poll and tries to apply that to people who think the earth is young as well, of course that's not going to be completely accurate. But it does give some indication, since you can't believe in both special creation of the earth 10,000 years ago AND evolution of humans over millions of years, so it gives you one boundary value for people who believe in a young earth.

And I don't see much difference between believing the earth is 10,000 years old and that humans were created 10,000 years ago, they're equally laughable.

I guess a "God" day is about a billion years old.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

is not the US one of the most religious nations that are christian based and developed?

That's not what you said.

You said the US has the highest percentage of Christian followers. I said that's not true.

[MoneyGuy]

I'm an evolution, old-Earth believing Christian because creation by God is the only possibility for the existence of this universe that makes sense to me. However, I have to say that when I hear Christians say that the reason for their belief is, "I just believe. I just have my faith," with no critical thought given, it's just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

That's not what you said.

You said the US has the highest percentage of Christian followers. I said that's not true.

my mistake when I first said-

"but usually the more religious a christian value nation is the less freedoms they have"

I thought you understood my initial meaning

I'm too hungover for this right now