Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[Resolute 14]

How the hell did May power-whore her way into this? Everyone on all sides are giving a fringe party with no influence or power too much say in things.

[transplant99]

I would be game for that. This is essentially a Liberal-NDP government, I think this is a good way of measuring what Canadians want

It most certainly is NOT a Lib/NDP government, it is a BLOC/NDP/LIB government by its very nature as they cannot govern without the support of all 3 parties.

Now...go ahead and run that platform nationally, running 1,2, 45, candidates in each riding....i dont care.

But since they have told us bald face on national TV what they are doing is in the best interests of Canadians...then let Canadians decide that since they didnt respect the last election enough to listen then.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think if they're going to take over government they should be held to a higher standard and release the details of not only their package, but how they plan to pay for it because right now, this sounds like they don't have a specific plan.

Not only do they not have a specific plan, any plan they do come up with will not be scrutinized and voted on by the electorate, like what happens (to a certain extent) during an election. How can they be held accountable if one party can just say "we were in a coalition, it's the other guys fault"?

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by ikaris

So you put no blame on Harper for putting a completely partisan footnote on a mini-budget intending to bankrupt the opposition? Essentially trying to govern like a majority in a minority mandate?

I just can't see how you don't recognize how this all could have been avoided.

I'm still trying to understand why Harper would do this when he has a minority government? Was he hoping the Liberals would somehow agree to this and try to bankrupt the BQ?

Or did Harper just add wrong and thought he had a majority?

[transplant99]

So you put no blame on Harper for putting a completely partisan footnote on a mini-budget intending to bankrupt the opposition?

Ummm..it was removed before any coalition had been announced. It doesnt exist. So whats that got to do with anything other than the 3 stooges acting like little kids?

I just can't see how you don't recognize how this all could have been avoided.

Sure i do...with compromise from ALL parties. Tell me...what did the Liberals compromise to in the last week other than to sell out their constituents and make a deal with seperatists to assume power?

[ernie]

Originally Posted by ikaris

So you put no blame on Harper for putting a completely partisan footnote on a mini-budget intending to bankrupt the opposition? Essentially trying to govern like a majority in a minority mandate?

I just can't see how you don't recognize how this all could have been avoided.

Some blame sure but not a biggest chunk of it IMO. It wasn't something that was going to vote then and there. It was an update meant to lay out their intentions. Something they are asked to do by the House. From that point on it is time to massage the plan to get House support. The government removed the so called offending clauses as part of that massaging. You don't destroy the government over something like that. And if you do, you darn well better have all your t's crossed and i's dotted on what you would do differently and how you would do that but as is coming out today they didn't do that. They have a Stimulus package they can't given any real details about because it has no details. It may as well not even exist.

But of course they was all in the workings for 2/3 of the coalition BEFORE that update even came about.

I think this gets uglier and uglier for the coalition over the next few days as the media thinks this is stupid. The populace thinks this is stupid. And because of that anything that can be interpreted in terms of a power grab is going to be broadcast and written everywhere. Today we have two examples already: May possibly getting a senate seat and a stimulus plan that doesn't really actually exist. As a result I think you start to the cracks appear in both the NDP and Liberal ranks. They may not be public cracks or public comments but some party may forget to show up to vote.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Ummm..it was removed before any coalition had been announced. It doesnt exist. So whats that got to do with anything other than the 3 stooges acting like little kids?

Are you serious? The coalition got together because of that. While I don't agree with it, they essentially don't trust the Conservatives anymore to try and govern like a minority should, and why should they? the first confidence vote that Cons do this? You reap what you sow.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by ikaris

So you put no blame on Harper for putting a completely partisan footnote on a mini-budget intending to bankrupt the opposition? Essentially trying to govern like a majority in a minority mandate?

I just can't see how you don't recognize how this all could have been avoided.

Sure... If you continue to poke someone with a stick and get bashed over the head with a shovel you hold some responsibility for causing the action... but it sure doesn't mean the shovel basher gets to go off scot free.

[transplant99]

The coalition got together because of that

No they didnt!!!

They got together 2 DAYS after the election....only the Libs signed on later.

I mean...they were surprised their opposition made a move to try and weaken his opposition?

Man....I guess that has never been done before in Canadian politics. LOL

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Are you serious? The coalition got together because of that. While I don't agree with it, they essentially don't trust the Conservatives anymore to try and govern like a minority should, and why should they? the first confidence vote that Cons do this? You reap what you sow.

How many times do you need to be told that this "coalition" was planned by the NDP and Bloq BEFORE the mini-budget was presented? It was actually planned two friggen days after the Oct election.

Seriously, man. We get it. You hate Stephen Harper and you're pissed off about losing the last two elections... but ignoring the bits and pieces of reality that don't support your opinions is not going to win you any support.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by ikaris

So you put no blame on Harper for putting a completely partisan footnote on a mini-budget intending to bankrupt the opposition? Essentially trying to govern like a majority in a minority mandate?

I just can't see how you don't recognize how this all could have been avoided.

A) It was not specifically partisan. Sure his party was in the best shape, but you don't have to be a conservative to think that parties should have to raise money themselves. This was put in because the corrupt Liberal government that was in at the time needed money and felt entitled to taxpayer dollars ( I mean really, they stole enough around that time frame too).

B) That footnote not is not currently in the mini budget. It was taken out. The conservatives made all the amendments the liberals indicated (to the media not the conservatives, because why try to make this work), and yet it changed NOTHING. Why? Maybe because they weren't the issue in the first place. They were an excuse. The liberals wanted power, this was what they used to get it.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No they didnt!!!

They got together 2 DAYS after the election....only the Libs signed on later.

You say this as if this is some sort of minor detail.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

source?

Per your request...

from Mr. Dion during the last election campaign in which he ruled out a coalition with the NDP. "You cannot have a coalition with a party that has a platform that would be damaging for the economy, period,"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...l_gam_mostview

[Cheese]

IF you choose to you can voice your displeasure to Her Excellency, Governor General Michaelle Jean at:

Info@GG.CA


Fill their inbox if you choose.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Sure, I would be happy to have this. Essentially the NDP or Liberal would remove a candidate from each riding and have only one representing (the one that has the best chance to win).

I would be game for that. This is essentially a Liberal-NDP government, I think this is a good way of measuring what Canadians want.

These two parties are too proud and have a rich history. There is no way they would ever run under one banner.

They will work together now but whenever another election is called, they will be at each other's throats again.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Are you serious? The coalition got together because of that. While I don't agree with it, they essentially don't trust the Conservatives anymore to try and govern like a minority should, and why should they? the first confidence vote that Cons do this? You reap what you sow.

Maybe you should try to get up to date. The coalition was already in place. They wanted an excuse this was it. The fact that they think overthrowing the government over not being able to take taxpayers money that they haven't earned is justification is a little sad, but the liberals do have a good history of corruption and entitlement.

[octothorp]

Excellent quote by Deb Grey.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/547064

Deb Grey, a former Canadian Alliance and Reform MP, urged Harper to go on national television and address the perceived failings of his economic strategy and say "you know, that probably wasn't right, but this is what we're going to do, and I want to make sure that the economy is the focus rather than all this inside baseball that nobody gives a sweet fig about. So if he did that, I think that maybe people would kind of retreat a little bit on the Hill and not take this over the edge."Grey urged Governor General Michaelle Jean to block any moves that would see the focus shift off the economy."I'd get those guys in a room, the four of them, and I'd say to them I'm not proroguing this, I'm not calling an election, I'm not naming this coalition. You four guys get yourself in a room and don't come out of there until you decide that you're going to run this government, and I am forcing you all to get back to work and make the economy the focus, stupid, rather than all of this inside baseball."

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Seriously, man. We get it. You hate Stephen Harper and you're pissed off about losing the last two elections... but ignoring the bits and pieces of reality that don't support your opinions is not going to win you any support.

and we get it. You hate anything and everything Liberal.

[habernac]

lively debate going on at the House of Commons right now if you have a TV nearby.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Jade

A) It was not specifically partisan. Sure his party was in the best shape, but you don't have to be a conservative to think that parties should have to raise money themselves. This was put in because the corrupt Liberal government that was in at the time needed money and felt entitled to taxpayer dollars ( I mean really, they stole enough around that time frame too).

Right. This was non-partisan.

Originally Posted by Jade

B) That footnote not is not currently in the mini budget. It was taken out. The conservatives made all the amendments the liberals indicated (to the media not the conservatives, because why try to make this work), and yet it changed NOTHING. Why? Maybe because they weren't the issue in the first place. They were an excuse. The liberals wanted power, this was what they used to get it.

I've said about 50 million times in this thread, and the last, but I guess I'll need to say it again, I don't like this coalition plan. All I'm saying is that I can understand why they're doing it. They have no reason to believe that the Conservatives aren't going to try this nonsense throughout their leadership and they've had enough. I've had enough of this partisanship too. I would be ok with McKay as leader of the Conservatives though.