Democratic Presidential Primaries 2008

[Itse]

Originally Posted by badnarik

if obama cares about blacks he should speak out against the drug war. i read his latest speech and don't really see what the big deal is.

The drug war is a single issue, this was a much bigger picture.

In an ideal world, this wouldn't have been such a big deal. Politicians wouldn't be avoiding controversies and afraid of taking the high road, even if it could cost them. They would speak honestly, rationally and eloquently all the time, speaking to people as if they were rational, adult human beings, capable of understanding concepts that are more complex than simple fingerpointing, capable of listening to someone for over half an hour and actually thinking about what was said.

This world is very far from that world. I get it that the speech itself doesn't touch everyone. It actually doesn't touch me that much, partly because it really has very little to do with me. (Finland is one of the whitest countries in the world propably, and I'm white, and relatively relaxed about racial issues to start with.) However I deeply appreciate the sheer craftmanship in the speech, and I think everyone should be able to appreciate the way the man handled himself in a difficult situation. He acted in a way which seemed to be totally gone from politics: rationally, responsibly and gracefully.

So it's not so much about the speech itself for me, it's more about the context.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Azure

I said I'm done arguing about it.

But if you really want to see them.....youtube is your friend.

There is NOTHING on YouTube that is not a Fox News hatchet job based on a sound bite snatched from a single surmon and then propagated by another extremist RW organization, Media Matters. Nice try. Another swing and a miss. You're doing well in this thread.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

There is NOTHING on YouTube that is not a Fox News hatchet job based on a sound bite snatched from a single surmon and then propagated by another extremist RW organization, Media Matters. Nice try. Another swing and a miss. You're doing well in this thread.

The YouTube videos are parts of several sermons; not just one. You can tell by the different clothes being warn. The one where he is joyous over 9/11 obviously was preached shortly after the tragedy occurred. He seems unaware of the fact that black people were killed as well as white. In all the sermons the congregation is obviously in agreement with his words. There is no awkward moments of silence.

I guess your atheistic militancy is trumped by your political leanings. I would of figured you to be incensed by this churches political activism. I know I am.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The YouTube videos are parts of several sermons; not just one. You can tell by the different clothes being warn. The one where he is joyous over 9/11 obviously was preached shortly after the tragedy occurred. He seems unaware of the fact that black people were killed as well as white. In all the sermons the congregation is obviously in agreement with his words. There is no awkward moments of silence.

I guess your atheistic militancy is trumped by your political leanings. I would of figured you to be incensed by this churches political activism. I know I am.

So... let me get this straight. It is your contention that Barack Obama is a black supremacist and a secret 9/11 terrorist sympathizer.

Because if you don't actually believe that, then the only reason you would care is that his affiliation with this church might be politically damaging.

I don' think that George W. Bush, for example, would care very much for being painted with the "guilt by association" brush that we're using here. I've said a lot of things about GWB over the years, but I don't think I've ever pretended that he could be condemned solely because of what his associates believe.

In any case, I thought Obama was a "secret Muslim."

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I guess your atheistic militancy is trumped by your political leanings. I would of figured you to be incensed by this churches political activism. I know I am.

Your hypocrasy knows no ends. You condemn this man, and his church, but blindly support the hateful rhetoric made by the churches you support. The vitrol spewed from the pulpit by the likes of Ted Haggard, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Jim Baker, Jerry Fallwell and Rod Parsley are equally as inflamatory if not more, as they has targetted specific groups or individuals for their hate message. I really wish you would just come out and admit you're a biggot and be done with it. If you wish to condemn one religious idiot, you must condemn them all, and that includes those that lead your cult.

I personally think all othem should be put in a rubber room some place, the door locked and the key thrown away. Their delusions are not healthy and the impact they can have on the weak minds in their flock is astounding. But if one gets to spread his message, they all get to spread their message. That's the way our system is set up, which is why I defend Wright's right to speak. If Wright is censored, then all of the wingnut evangelicals out there must also be censored.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

And it gets even uglier in the Democratic race thanks to the Hate Radio crowd.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2008032...poilthedemrace

Then we start being "un-American" again, to quote liberals," Limbaugh said laughing. "Then we start to sabotage all over again. The key about that, though, is you've gotta be registered with the party you intend to vote in Pennsylvania by March 24th. That's early. That's almost a month before the election date, which is April 22nd. So be thinking about that, folks."

How can people who support the right wing stand to look at themselves in the mirror? The absolute disgusting face that the right wing puts on politics down here is dispicable. They talk about the "liberals" doing "un-American" things, but here's the right wing admitting to sabotaging an election. They admit to fixing an election. That is some awfully high moral standards these people support. They make me sick and make me embarassed to be an American.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

And it gets even uglier in the Democratic race thanks to the Hate Radio crowd.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2008032...poilthedemrace

Then we start being "un-American" again, to quote liberals," Limbaugh said laughing. "Then we start to sabotage all over again. The key about that, though, is you've gotta be registered with the party you intend to vote in Pennsylvania by March 24th. That's early. That's almost a month before the election date, which is April 22nd. So be thinking about that, folks."

How can people who support the right wing stand to look at themselves in the mirror? The absolute disgusting face that the right wing puts on politics down here is dispicable. They talk about the "liberals" doing "un-American" things, but here's the right wing admitting to sabotaging an election. They admit to fixing an election. That is some awfully high moral standards these people support. They make me sick and make me embarassed to be an American.

Is it any different than Wildrose Alliance members being urged to buy PC memberships and vote Morton, or Liberals and NDPers crossing over on behest of the Teachers and Nursing Unions to vote for (I think it was) Dinning.

Its the catch-22 of an open primary system (yes, its supposed to be closed, but since people are free to change affiliations at will, its essentially open). If there was a guaranteed way for the Liberals to sabotage the Conservatives in Canada (or vice versa) they would stoop to at least this level to do it.

They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in a tight and divisive race like any opposition party would. Limbaugh is a pompous, braying jackass, but this isn't that bad.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Clinton's memory is going on her...

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...ys-foreig.html

Joe Wilson is a close friend to the Clintons, and has been campaigning hard for her, but even he can't help her on this one. Ooops. Hillary overstates her experience again.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Is it any different than Wildrose Alliance members being urged to buy PC memberships and vote Morton, or Liberals and NDPers crossing over on behest of the Teachers and Nursing Unions to vote for (I think it was) Dinning.

Its the catch-22 of an open primary system (yes, its supposed to be closed, but since people are free to change affiliations at will, its essentially open). If there was a guaranteed way for the Liberals to sabotage the Conservatives in Canada (or vice versa) they would stoop to at least this level to do it.

They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in a tight and divisive race like any opposition party would. Limbaugh is a pompous, braying jackass, but this isn't that bad.

Okay, how about this bad boy?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...728/841/480210

Faux News running a racially charged and damaging story against a Democrat? Is THAT considered bad?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Is it any different than Wildrose Alliance members being urged to buy PC memberships and vote Morton, or Liberals and NDPers crossing over on behest of the Teachers and Nursing Unions to vote for (I think it was) Dinning.

Its the catch-22 of an open primary system (yes, its supposed to be closed, but since people are free to change affiliations at will, its essentially open). If there was a guaranteed way for the Liberals to sabotage the Conservatives in Canada (or vice versa) they would stoop to at least this level to do it.

They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in a tight and divisive race like any opposition party would. Limbaugh is a pompous, braying jackass, but this isn't that bad.

My main concern is that there are people out there who will actually leave their home to do what Rush Limbaugh tells them to do.

Anyone who would do what that idiot asks needs their head examined.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Okay, how about this bad boy?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...728/841/480210

Faux News running a racially charged and damaging story against a Democrat? Is THAT considered bad?

Its not good... but is it false? They did endorse Obama. He rejected it (for very obvious reasons), but that still happened. Its not defammatory if its true. He's going to attract racially charged topics... his pastor for one, and now these guys... he's going to be prepared for it, if he and his advisors are worth their salt.

Fox does have a slant, but that already affects their credibility with the majority.

Independent media should be unbiased, but there's lots of biased media out there. How come its okay for Rolling Stone Magazine to have a cover with Obama standing arms at his hips looking like the newest member of the Justice League? That's propaganda too.

There's a responsibility for every voter to realize bias is everywhere and to navigate through to make what they think is their best choice. Yes, many people are idiots, but that's not the point.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

My main concern is that there are people out there who will actually leave their home to do what Rush Limbaugh tells them to do.

Anyone who would do what that idiot asks needs their head examined.

Of course, one could say that whoever does what Jack Layton asks needs their head examined too... its all a matter of opinion.

(though I agree, Limbaugh is a buffoon on what should be a very unpopulated area on the political spectrum)

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Of course, one could say that whoever does what Jack Layton asks needs their head examined too... its all a matter of opinion.

If Layton barked incessantly about his strong socialist values and then went home and lived his life like Ted Nugent and Conrad Black rolled into one, then you can compare him to Rush. As far as I know though, at least he's sincere about his leftiness.

How many times has Rush Limbaugh been divorced? Arrested? Admitted to being a drug addict? Dodged the draft?

This guy is supposed to be a conservative? Conservative people take him seriously? It doesn't make sense. He talks like a conservative and lives like Larry Flynt.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

If Layton barked incessantly about his strong socialist values and then went home and lived his life like Ted Nugent and Conrad Black rolled into one, then you can compare him to Rush. As far as I know though, at least he's sincere about his leftiness.

How many times has Rush Limbaugh been divorced? Arrested? Admitted to being a drug addict? Dodged the draft?

This guy is supposed to be a conservative? Conservative people take him seriously? It doesn't make sense. He talks like a conservative and lives like Larry Flynt.

Oh hey, I agree, the guy is a tool. He's really just another radio personality... education wise he's dumber than a sack of hammers. I don't think he even understands a lot of the values he claims to love. But some people vote based on DJs playing Nelly and hackneyed TV commercials...

To be fair, he didn't really dodge the draft... he just got lucky, and then was ruled ineligible later due to medical conditions.

[4X4]

I'm quickly becoming an Obama fan. In past years, I really didn't care about american politics, but this time around, I find myself getting quite interested. And after watching that speech that Lanny posted the transcript, I am comfortable saying that I want him to win.
He just seems genuine. Did he read that speech? It didn't look like it. Of course, it doesn't look like news anchors are reading, either.


So I'm now an Obama fan, to the chagrin of my buddy who is quite religious. He seems to think that the republicans are going to win this election. In fact, he's sure. That is bad news to me. I want to see what a youngblood can do for america (besides dodge assassination attempts).

This thread seems to be full of people that take american politics very seriously, what is the general feel down there? Does McCain have a chance? If he runs with Leiberman, this would threaten the Democrats?
Basically, I'm asking who is most likely going to win.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I'm quickly becoming an Obama fan. In past years, I really didn't care about american politics, but this time around, I find myself getting quite interested. And after watching that speech that Lanny posted the transcript, I am comfortable saying that I want him to win.
He just seems genuine. Did he read that speech? It didn't look like it. Of course, it doesn't look like news anchors are reading, either.


So I'm now an Obama fan, to the chagrin of my buddy who is quite religious. He seems to think that the republicans are going to win this election. In fact, he's sure. That is bad news to me. I want to see what a youngblood can do for america (besides dodge assassination attempts).

This thread seems to be full of people that take american politics very seriously, what is the general feel down there? Does McCain have a chance? If he runs with Leiberman, this would threaten the Democrats?
Basically, I'm asking who is most likely going to win.

I like Obama to beat McCain--but in American politics, a few months is an eternity. It's way too early to tell.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

in politics, a few months is an eternity.

Fixed.

[Johnny 99]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I'm quickly becoming an Obama fan. In past years, I really didn't care about american politics, but this time around, I find myself getting quite interested. And after watching that speech that Lanny posted the transcript, I am comfortable saying that I want him to win.
He just seems genuine. Did he read that speech? It didn't look like it. Of course, it doesn't look like news anchors are reading, either.


So I'm now an Obama fan, to the chagrin of my buddy who is quite religious. He seems to think that the republicans are going to win this election. In fact, he's sure. That is bad news to me. I want to see what a youngblood can do for america (besides dodge assassination attempts).

This thread seems to be full of people that take american politics very seriously, what is the general feel down there? Does McCain have a chance? If he runs with Leiberman, this would threaten the Democrats?
Basically, I'm asking who is most likely going to win.

The Democrats SHOULD be a lead-pipe, stone cold lock. If you look at the betting exchanges they are about a -200 favourite, so they are favoured by a large margin, especially for American politics. However, while McCain WILL be the Republican nominee, Obama, who will very likely end up as the Democratic nominee, has this thorn in his side that won't go away named Hillary Clinton. As Ralph Nader said, if the Democrats don't win this election, they should just shut up shop and stop calling themselves a party. Even the most ardent conservative, such as Tucker Carlson, will freely admit that they are not very likely to win.

[HotHotHeat]

If the Republicans win the next election the US people will have pretty much said "We're going down with the ship no matter what." Either that or "We're too stupid to recognize what the root of the problem is."

The US is on the wrong track. I can't even begin where to start backing that statement up. They NEED a new approach, something refreshing and captivating. Enter Barrack Obama...Quite possibly the best born natural leader to run for President since JFK. And shockingly enough, race and religion get in the way. It's actually quite comical. The same two issues that have plagued every society in existence are holding back the US from becoming a better nation.

What the hell has religion ever provided anyways? Justification for war is about the only thing I can think of.

/End rant.

[Nehkara]

New poll from Public Policy Polling says that Obama is now leading Clinton 45% to 43% in Pennsylvania... a remarkable turn around considering the same organization's poll 2.5 weeks ago showed Clinton with a 26 point lead.

You can find the results of the poll here.