Travel trailer towing question?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Again, if pulling the trailer unloaded was as dangerous as you make it out to be, there would be a dozen trailers flipped into the ditch every weekend on HWY 1.

As long as other factors are covered, towing an extra 400 lbs should be well within the safety margins. Especially if, as I said, you take it easy (i.e. max out at 80 km/h, etc)

I'm ok with differing opinions on whether he should do it. The question as to whether it is "dangerous"? It simply isn't unreasonably so, no more than towing a trailer in the first place.

It absolutely is though. Those towing capacities are there for a reason and arbitrarily deciding x lbs of extra weight isn't something that your average Joe should be doing. If 500lbs is okay, then is 600lbs? It's only 100lbs over what you've said is safe, what about 100lbs more than that?

Besides, it's pretty clear that he's going to be well over the capacity, not just 500 lbs, unless he doesn't intend to put anything in the trailer at all.

Some pretty educated people work pretty hard to figure out what weight will be safe to tow with a certain vehicle, and yes the add a safety factor, but it's called a safety factor for a reason...because going over the prescribed limit, makes doing it less safe.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

It absolutely is though. Those towing capacities are there for a reason and arbitrarily deciding x lbs of extra weight isn't something that your average Joe should be doing. If 500lbs is okay, then is 600lbs? It's only 100lbs over what you've said is safe, what about 100lbs more than that?

Besides, it's pretty clear that he's going to be well over the capacity, not just 500 lbs, unless he doesn't intend to put anything in the trailer at all.

Some pretty educated people work pretty hard to figure out what weight will be safe to tow with a certain vehicle, and yes the add a safety factor, but it's called a safety factor for a reason...because going over the prescribed limit, makes doing it less safe.

See my last post.

If we are only talking about trailer weight, and not other factors, it's not really a "safety" issue. It becomes more of a strain on the vehicle issue. Pulling a enormous trailer that was properly balanced and outfitted wouldn't be unsafe, but it would put extra stress on the vehicle.

I don't think I'd be pulling the trailer fully loaded with a van full of family either. Obviously, that's significantly more than what the vehicle is rated for.

Picking up the empty trailer, with no extra passenger weight in the van, simply is not an issue for safety provided that you take it easy, and the other factors I've mentioned are in place and working properly. You aren't going to blow a transmission by driving the empty trailer home, having adjusted your driving appropriately to the vehicle size.

[socktape]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

As I mentioned before, my dad towed a significantly larger trailer with a van that wasn't much larger than the Montana for several years and many trips. I'm certain that the Montana has more HP than the Safari my dad used to pull our trailer with. Of course, HP isn't a safety issue.

The old GMC Safari vans and their cousins the Astro etc. had a truck based powertrain.(the old S-10) They could pull up to 5000lbs when properly equipped.

It would be like buying a Dodge Nitro today...If they still make them... they can pull 5000lbs but most smaller SUVs can only pull 3500 or 1500lbs. I can't think of another one offhand that can pull over 3500.

[4X4]

The last thing our highways need are more slowpokes pulling things in under powered vehicles. I think it's been established that the Montana is not capable of towing the trailer, and that it's already got the best tow package available for the vehicle, so let's stop encouraging people to go 80 on the highway, please?

[Jackpot_Smooth]

Not that i condone illegal/unsafe towing practice but i have a friend that towed a bobcat and trailer good for about 11000lb for well over a year with a first generation ford explorer. Never crashed or lost control but definitely had to avoid the hillier routes in the city and eventually lost his transmission. It is do-able, obviously not the safest.

[sclitheroe]

How you would feel about getting onboard an airliner that was being operated above Airbus or Boeing's max load ratings should dictate how you feel about putting your family in a vehicle that is exceeding the manufacturer's ratings for all up weight.

Maybe it's OK once, maybe for an entire season, but we're talking about mean time to failure, and the outcome of the failure. You won't know what the results are until a failure occurs, and as with everything mechanical, it's not if, it's always when.

Maybe the failure is predictable - a blown transmission and you're coasting to the side of the road. Maybe the failure is less predictable though - In the rain, on a curve, with another vehicle tailgating you, when a wheel bearing seizes or an axle snaps, and you enter a skid.

Could either scenario occur below max load? Yes. Are you increasing the odds of either scenario occurring by operating outside manufacturer ratings & specifications? Yes.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Jackpot_Smooth

Not that i condone illegal/unsafe towing practice but i have a friend that towed a bobcat and trailer good for about 11000lb for well over a year with a first generation ford explorer. Never crashed or lost control but definitely had to avoid the hillier routes in the city and eventually lost his transmission. It is do-able, obviously not the safest.

He's pretty lucky he never encountered a DOT checkstop. I think those guys would have found thousands of dollars worth of fines for him.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Again, if pulling the trailer unloaded was as dangerous as you make it out to be, there would be a dozen trailers flipped into the ditch every weekend on HWY 1.

As long as other factors are covered, towing an extra 400 lbs should be well within the safety margins. Especially if, as I said, you take it easy (i.e. max out at 80 km/h, etc)

I'm ok with differing opinions on whether he should do it. The question as to whether it is "dangerous"? It simply isn't unreasonably so, no more than towing a trailer in the first place.

Total Trailer Weight is really a small factor compared to being overweight on the rear axle of the tow vehicle, or having inadequate brakes, It's really one of the smaller issues in terms of actual safety (legality aside). The trailer should be doing all of it's own braking; less power just means that it'll take longer to get to speed. Extra strain on a transmission can be mitigated by a transmission cooler, or just by going slower and taking it easier. You might worry if the trailer was significantly over the rating that the frame of the vehicle wasn't strong enough, but I think that 10% would be well within the safety margins.

Theoretically, you could move around a 20,000 lb (maybe a slight exaggeration) trailer with the montana safely, provided that the brakes were adequate, the hitch was strong enough, and the weight was balanced properly, so that there wasn't too much weight on the tow vehicle. You'd just have to go really slow.

You know, I've thought about this some more and you are right. It is illegal and unsafe, but it's not like lots of people don't do it and nothing bad happens, so what's the big deal right?

You know what else a lot of people do that's illegal and unsafe, but they get away with it all the time so it can't be THAT unsafe? Drinking and driving. Happens all the time, yet people somehow manage to make it home without killing anyone or getting a ticket, so what's the big deal? I'd be willing to bet that on any given day there are far more people drinking and driving - and making it wherever they are going safely with no ticket - than their are people pulling oversized trailers. Besides, I'm sure you have much more experience and knowledge than the engineers that put the tow ratings on vehicles. I'm pretty sure they are just a rough guideline - probably says "somewhere around 3500lbs, but as long as you go slow really anything you want" in the owners manual.

In any event, I have to laugh at your 20,000lbs with a Montana. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt - call 5 trailer places in Calgary (Woody's, etc.) and tell them you'd like to buy one of their trailers that has a dry weight of 10,000lbs (half your laughable suggetion) and you want to pull it with your Montana - but you'll get a WD hitch and "go real slow". See how many of them tell you that sounds like a great idea and that they'd actually sell you that setup. If you can get even one to admit that's an ok idea, I'll take back everything I've said in the thread about this being a dangerous and illegal idea. I suspect though, that most if not all reputable dealers will tell you the same thing most people in this thread are - the tow ratings of vehicles are there for a reason.

[Derek Sutton]

Even if the van could pull the trailer, why would you even want to try? I'm sure you could get it from the lot to your home without incident but any further then that, forget it. Wait till you get your "V8 SUV" then consider pulling your trailer, talk about literaly putting the cart before the horse. Remember GVW are limits, far beyond recommened towing weights. How much fun is driving down the hi way just waiting for something to happen. My trailer is 5600lbs dry pulling with a Z71 Crew (between 7500- 8000 GVW) and I would not want to go much heavier. It's already been said, bikes, food, beer, 40 gallon water tank, bocce balls. Add in the prevailing Southern AB west wind and it's working pretty hard yet still well under the GVW, all while getting 10+/- mpg.
I cringe anytime I see a mini van or a mid size SUV pulling a R/V, if you can't afford a truck, don't get the trailer.

[Sliver]

Didn't realize towing on the Internet was such serious bizness.

[taco.vidal]

I encounter drivers like the OP every so often. Typically it will be on a winding mountain 2 lane road with limited passing zones. The driver pulling an overweighted trailer will struggle to make it up 80km/h going uphill and have a train of vehicles behind them. Then on the downhills they'll get up to 110km/h or so and not let any get by by the time the next passing zone is done barely anyone was able to pass. THen it starts allover again on the next uphill.

And its one thing to inconvenience others on the road but like others have pointed out - just wait till you blow a transmission in the middle of your family vacation.

[Sliver]

Hey, looking at buying a trailer that's only 1650 pounds fully loaded. Do you think I'd be fine without trailer brakes on that?

[Titan]

Back in 2011 you might have been but the years have not been kind.

Have you considered using a vehicle to haul it?

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Hey, looking at buying a trailer that's only 1650 pounds fully loaded. Do you think I'd be fine without trailer brakes on that?

What would you be pulling it with?
And what type of towing would you be doing? Highway, city, mountains, prairies?

Probably should be okay especially pulling with a truck.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

What would you be pulling it with?
And what type of towing would you be doing? Highway, city, mountains, prairies?

Probably should be okay especially pulling with a truck.

Alternatively between f-150 and minivan (3500 lbs tow rating on that). I think I'll try without to begin. Just wanted to make sure that wasn't totally crazy.

[Sliver]

Mountains, here, there and everywhere. I go down hills using engine braking so it's not like I ride the brakes, which is probably helpful.

[Geraldsh]

I think the rule (if we still have rules) is anything over 2000 lbs must have brakes.

[llwhiteoutll]

Is 1,650lbs the GVWR of the trailer or is it the number you've arrived at using a scale?


If the GVWR of the trailer is 2,000lbs or higher, you need brakes. If the trailer wights more than half of the towing vehicle, you need brakes.


If it's only going to be 1,650lbs loaded, you should be ok payload wise on the van, but it can't hurt to double check.

[gasman]

The rules in Alberta are trailer brakes are required at 2000lbs or half the weight of the tow vehicle.

Otherwise it's just more wear and tear on your vehicle brakes, and reduced performance stopping.

[Fuzz]

Please tell me this trailer has something completely unusual on it, or it won't be a real Sliver question.