01-26-2017, 08:24 AM
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#681
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus
So this is all about points? You should really mention all the primo ice time Mr Monohan gets on the PP and riding shotgun to one the most skilled wingers in the league too if you're going to go down that road.
Backlund is producing at a better clip this year against some very tough match ups and can play substantially better defensively than Monohan. He is by far a superior player in almost every facet of the game. I'd even wager Backlund is more physical than Monohan 99% of the time.
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I literally said that Backlund is better defensively. He is not "by far superior in almost every facet of the game" don't be ridiculous.
Edit - Where am I HF boards ? Sample size be damned around here now ? For a 40 game stretch Backlund has been slightly better then Monahan, and now we're ready to trade Mony to keep Backlund... Holy moly.
Last edited by Monahan For Mayor; 01-26-2017 at 08:26 AM.
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01-26-2017, 08:28 AM
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#682
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First Line Centre
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You only move Backlund if someone is going to pay over the odds. You want a cost-controlled asset to address a weakness in this team, who is also safe from the expansion draft. Not a pick from a playoff team, which will end up in the 20-30 range, not a veteran guy who adds money (because in that case, you extend Backlund). You are tempted by a deal including Matt Murray, for example, as he addresses a weakness (Goaltending), would be protected in expansion, and is cost-controlled. If you want to add a top 4 D, wait until after the dust settles on expansion
If the Flames have Bennett on a bridge contract and give more money to Backlund, you can look at the forward corps in a couple of years. Bennett has pushed Backlund down depth chart - you either roll with 3 big centres or make a trade. Bennett ends up moved to wing, then you have both in your top 6. This is a good problem to have.
Just because a player has value, doesn't mean you should trade him. Unless you know he wants out, and as a guy who has played his whole career to date here and has been developed by the Flames, he has shown nothing to date that he wants to leave. He likely wants to get paid, so if you are the Flames, you step up and pay him - he's worth it.
This team went through the Iginla era crying out for good centres, now that we have a lot of potential at this position, the most important skater, we want to cash that in? Some people need to give their heads a shake!
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01-26-2017, 08:35 AM
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#683
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Section 120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor
Are we trying to build a contender ? On a contender Backs isn't in the top 6.
Pitts
Chicago
LA
SJ
Caps
ANA
The powerhouse contenders would have Backlund on the 3C. I'd be willing to bet you look at the last 10 cup winners and Backs is on the 3rd line of 80% of them.
I agree Backa can be a viable second line centre, but if we want to win cups it would be ideal to have him on the 3rd line.
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For the Flames to build a contender, acquiring a C who's better than Backlund is not a priority. Acquiring another top 4 D and stronger wingers increases the Flames chances way more.
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01-26-2017, 08:49 AM
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#684
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imported_Aussie
If the Flames have Bennett on a bridge contract and give more money to Backlund, you can look at the forward corps in a couple of years. Bennett has pushed Backlund down depth chart - you either roll with 3 big centres or make a trade. Bennett ends up moved to wing, then you have both in your top 6. This is a good problem to have.
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I feel like this really needs to be emphasized. A lot of people seem to want to trade Backlund and believe Bennett and Jankowski will turn a corner and develop into top 6 centremen. But we aren't at that position yet and can't bank on anything. I'd say there's just a good a chance that Bennett becomes a full-time winger, and Jankowski never makes the transition to the NHL.
So if we re-sign Backlund, and Bennett and Jankowski actually do start coming along - that's not a bad position to be in. It's a good situation.
What would be worse is if we traded Backlund, and Bennett and Jankowski never developed into those players.
Last edited by Ashasx; 01-26-2017 at 12:38 PM.
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01-26-2017, 08:59 AM
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#685
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor
People dubbing Backlund our #1 centre are hilarious. Who is Sean Monahan ? Only the dude with 10 more goals in 100+ less games. If you seriously think Backlund is better than Monahan your out to lunch. Backlund is a very good player, but he is having a career year. Sean Monahan who has struggled enormously this season is 2 points behind Monahan. Backlund has also had the enjoyment of playing healthy all season and 2 REAL line mates.
I agree that Backlund is better this year, but it's not ever going to happen again IMO. I also wouldn't be surprised in Monahan passes him in the points department soon. Backlund is better defensively, but he's also what 5 years older ? Monahan is still our # 1 centre, and Backlund is still a good middle 6 centre.
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Backlund is a better all-around centre right now. Which means he's the Flames' #1 centre right now.
There's more to hockey than offence. Top teams are built around two-way centres. I'd go as far as to say a team needs an elite two-way centre to win the Cup. Bergeron. Kopitar. Toews. Crosby. I'm not saying Backlund is elite. But Monahan isn't either, when you look at play with the puck and without it.
I used to think Backlund was out of here when his contract comes up. But now I think there will be a gaping hole in the Flames lineup without him. With his lack of speed and intensity, I have my doubts Monahan will ever be more than average defensively. And it's anyone's guess what Bennett will end up being.
Seeing what the Flames do with Backlund will tell us what they think of Bennett long-term - if they think he will develop into a top-six two-way centre. And it'll be a lot tougher call than a lot of people think.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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Last edited by CliffFletcher; 01-26-2017 at 09:01 AM.
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01-26-2017, 09:19 AM
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#686
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cranbrook
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
Backlund is a better all-around centre right now. Which means he's the Flames' #1 centre right now.
There's more to hockey than offence. Top teams are built around two-way centres. I'd go as far as to say a team needs an elite two-way centre to win the Cup. Bergeron. Kopitar. Toews. Crosby. I'm not saying Backlund is elite. But Monahan isn't either, when you look at play with the puck and without it.
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Totally agree. If I was to put a comparable to Backlund right now it would be Jordan Staal. He doesn't have Staal's size but he makes up for it with speed and I think has a very comparable defensive instinct. Excellent all around centre who is a core piece to any legitimate team's playoff run.
He may not be the player that gets the glory or scores all the goals, but he is integral to a team competing. People are complaining about how losing Paul Byron has hurt the PK or team speed, that is nothing compared to how much getting rid of Backlund will hurt the Flames. I don't think I'd pay him the $6 Mil Staal gets, but $4-5 isn't unreasonable for an elite 3C/Good 2C.
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@PR_NHL
The @NHLFlames are the first team to feature four players each with 50+ points within their first 45 games of a season since the Penguins in 1995-96 (Ron Francis, Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr, Tomas Sandstrom).
Fuzz - "He didn't speak to the media before the election, either."
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01-26-2017, 11:33 AM
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#687
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Scoring Winger
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Most are blinded by Backlunds cheap deal right now for his current production. There is a lot of shortsightedness going on. You put Backlund at 4-5 mil, add 4 years to him and you have essentially driven that assets value into the ground. In 2 years, using the odds of Monny who is arguably established and reaching what all thought he could be, and the high likely hood of Bennett reaching his ceiling in even 2-3 years. This combined with Backlund currently at his peak and regression soon around the corner will in a best case scenario have us with a 3rd line center making 4-5 million a season. I'm not arguing that Backlund isn't good/great right now. I'm saying he won't be better than today in 3 years and his salary will have doubled. I just don't see it fitting in this cap world. If Backlund regresses in 3 years and makes 5 mil and is a true 3rd line center, does anyone see that as a trade-able asset? I don't think this year is the time to trade him, maybe not even next year depending on what he will command. If it's inevitable that Management feels he will be too expensive, you pull the trigger now though before his value diminishes. We aren't a playoff team yet, you find pieces that will better align when you see your window opening.
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01-26-2017, 11:38 AM
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#688
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 Posted the 6 millionth post!
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If you are a GM and you want to trade Backlund - his performance, coupled with his cheap contract (including one year remaining) now is the time to pull the trigger. If we are out of the playoff race (which we are not yet), but if that's the picture in 6 weeks, we could probably hit pay dirt for a team desperate for a quality defensive forward. WHo knows how he will perform next year.
In hindsight, we should have traded Wideman three years ago when he had his 50+ point season, if we had the ability to do so. Now he's not even worth Gary Leeman's old jock strap. Let's not make the same mistake twice.
I wouldn't want to trade him - but I wish we were playing much better to justify that reasoning.
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01-26-2017, 11:42 AM
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#689
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
In hindsight, we should have traded Wideman three years ago when he had his 50+ point season, if we had the ability to do so. Now he's not even worth Gary Leeman's old jock strap. Let's not make the same mistake twice..
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All reports are they tried, but teams weren't going to bite on that contract for one bounce back season.
Not comparable situations though to be honest.
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01-26-2017, 11:47 AM
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#690
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 Posted the 6 millionth post!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
All reports are they tried, but teams weren't going to bite on that contract for one bounce back season.
Not comparable situations though to be honest.
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I think there was probably a couple of offers, but the offers just weren't good enough to get it done (Calgary probably trying to play hardball). That said, a depreciated return on a 50+ point performance for Wideman is still better than an even more depreciated return for Wideman now, assuming he can be moved at all at this point.
Point is you consider moving players when they're peaking or at their best output; currently, Backlund has the right age, contract, and performance to score a home run, especially at the trade deadline.
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01-26-2017, 12:23 PM
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#691
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
I think there was probably a couple of offers, but the offers just weren't good enough to get it done (Calgary probably trying to play hardball). That said, a depreciated return on a 50+ point performance for Wideman is still better than an even more depreciated return for Wideman now, assuming he can be moved at all at this point.
Point is you consider moving players when they're peaking or at their best output; currently, Backlund has the right age, contract, and performance to score a home run, especially at the trade deadline.
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the rumours have been that the flames have been looking to move Wideman basically since his first season but teams knew what kind of player he was and aren't willing to take on the salary commitment. Because he stinks and the whole league knew it except Feaster and the flames.
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01-26-2017, 12:27 PM
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#692
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Franchise Player
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Backlund is on pace for 53 points despite playing against some of the toughest competition out there every night. In what world is that a third line player?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
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01-26-2017, 12:39 PM
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#693
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fischy13
Most are blinded by Backlunds cheap deal right now for his current production. There is a lot of shortsightedness going on. You put Backlund at 4-5 mil, add 4 years to him and you have essentially driven that assets value into the ground. In 2 years, using the odds of Monny who is arguably established and reaching what all thought he could be, and the high likely hood of Bennett reaching his ceiling in even 2-3 years. This combined with Backlund currently at his peak and regression soon around the corner will in a best case scenario have us with a 3rd line center making 4-5 million a season. I'm not arguing that Backlund isn't good/great right now. I'm saying he won't be better than today in 3 years and his salary will have doubled. I just don't see it fitting in this cap world. If Backlund regresses in 3 years and makes 5 mil and is a true 3rd line center, does anyone see that as a trade-able asset? I don't think this year is the time to trade him, maybe not even next year depending on what he will command. If it's inevitable that Management feels he will be too expensive, you pull the trigger now though before his value diminishes. We aren't a playoff team yet, you find pieces that will better align when you see your window opening.
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everyone over 30 = garbage untradeable liability?
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01-26-2017, 12:41 PM
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#694
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
the rumours have been that the flames have been looking to move Wideman basically since his first season but teams knew what kind of player he was and aren't willing to take on the salary commitment. Because he stinks and the whole league knew it except Feaster and the flames.
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A bloodthirsty, ref hunting savage.
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01-26-2017, 12:57 PM
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#695
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Participant 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codynw
Backlund is on pace for 53 points despite playing against some of the toughest competition out there every night. In what world is that a third line player?
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01-26-2017, 01:02 PM
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#696
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik-
A bloodthirsty, ref hunting savage.
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Never turn your back on Hannibal Wideman!
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01-26-2017, 02:19 PM
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#697
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Crash and Bang Winger
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To Calgary:Bishop Callahan Sustr or Nesterov/ To TB: Giordano Elliott 2017 2nd This trade could work for both teams.Tampa roles with Vasilevskiy going forward they get a vetern backup for playoff run and bolster their blue line with Gio.Tampa needs cap space next year to resign Drouin Palat Johnson who are all RFA's.Calgary takes back Callahan who makes 5.8 for the next 3 years and get a gritty RW who should still have a couple good years left in him.Lets be honest a signed Bishop would be worth a lot more but he isn't,this would give Calgary a few months to try and convince him to sign a contract with them.I think this trade would benifit both teams.What are your thoughts?
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01-26-2017, 02:24 PM
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#698
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#1 Goaltender
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I think Don Henderson is still hurting from the play which would explain the hate from refs we receive.
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01-26-2017, 02:27 PM
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#699
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Posted the 2 millionth post!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanucksWorstNightmare
To Calgary:Bishop Callahan Sustr or Nesterov/ To TB: Giordano Elliott 2017 2nd This trade could work for both teams.Tampa roles with Vasilevskiy going forward they get a vetern backup for playoff run and bolster their blue line with Gio.Tampa needs cap space next year to resign Drouin Palat Johnson who are all RFA's.Calgary takes back Callahan who makes 5.8 for the next 3 years and get a gritty RW who should still have a couple good years left in him.Lets be honest a signed Bishop would be worth a lot more but he isn't,this would give Calgary a few months to try and convince him to sign a contract with them.I think this trade would benifit both teams.What are your thoughts?
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Callahan has a cap hit of 5.8 mill through 2019-2020. Plus signing Bishop to a 7 mill per year contract, that's adding almost $13 million dollars on two players who are 30+
Also, I am pretty sure we would have to protect Callahan in the expansion draft.
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01-26-2017, 02:27 PM
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#700
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Farm Team Player
Join Date: Sep 2009
Exp: 
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Watching the team play this season, it is apparent that Johnny needs someone that can help drive the play on his line. The curl at the blueline so linemates can catch up seems to lead to dead offensive zone time. Could a player like Matt Duchenne be had? Do we have the assets that Sakic would want?
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