CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Then why renovate at all?
Half measures in this type of area end up being the worst.

Personally I don't want to renovate either and agree it's a half measure. But people apparently want something and those are the only two choices. McMahon is not some hole of a stadium, it just has too few washrooms and concourses. Fix that and it's a perfectly acceptable CFL stadium. Besides those it needs some little things like maybe replacing the seats, but people are acting like it's just a dump. I think reducing capacity frees up the space for washrooms and concourses, and replacing seats won't be that expensive. They could improve the experience a lot by not spending that much.

[JiriHrdina]

Then we will be a city without a proper stadium facility unlike almost every other major Canadian city. Is that what we want to be? If it is that's fine but it is a path that is basically a step back on what we are as a city

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Then we will be a city without a proper stadium facility unlike almost every other major Canadian city. Is that what we want to be? If it is that's fine but it is a path that is basically a step back on what we are as a city

Calgary would still have McMahon, a new flames arena and the new fieldhouse.

[JiriHrdina]

McMahon isn't a proper stadium

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Then we will be a city without a proper stadium facility unlike almost every other major Canadian city. Is that what we want to be? If it is that's fine but it is a path that is basically a step back on what we are as a city

What are we missing out on without a proper stadium facility? Aside from the olympics or whatever because a stadium likely gets built for that. But what are we missing out on?

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Personally I don't want to renovate either and agree it's a half measure. But people apparently want something and those are the only two choices. McMahon is not some hole of a stadium, it just has too few washrooms and concourses. Fix that and it's a perfectly acceptable CFL stadium. Besides those it needs some little things like maybe replacing the seats, but people are acting like it's just a dump. I think reducing capacity frees up the space for washrooms and concourses, and replacing seats won't be that expensive. They could improve the experience a lot by not spending that much.

I think you are under estimating the cost of just these little things. Is there enough space to replace bench seating with actual seats? Structurally can you feasibly do these things on the concourse. Can all the plumbing be easily moved or added to provide extra concessions and bathrooms (does the sewer line need to be upgraded).

I have to admit that I haven't been to McMahon since the heritage game. It was a clusterfudge that day and I didn't want to leave my seats. I know there were a ton of additional people that day, but everything from the ctrain station to getting to the seat was brutal.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

McMahon isn't a proper stadium

It definitely is not, and if it's not replaced there won't be a CFL team here long term. Once the fan base rolls over, a new generation of fan is not going to replace them at McMahon and all the corporate money will be going to the new Flames stadium.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Then we will be a city without a proper stadium facility unlike almost every other major Canadian city. Is that what we want to be? If it is that's fine but it is a path that is basically a step back on what we are as a city

Proper stadium for what though? That is undeniably an acceptable CFL stadium. Go to Molson Stadium, awesome location and while not an amazing stadium technically or aesthetically, it's more or less the perfect CFL stadium. It's intimate, great atmosphere, sufficient facilities for bathrooms and concourses, and most importantly outdoors. A summer sport being mostly played inside is awful and it was going to kill the Als until they moved outside.

I know people want a top level stadium, but it's not necessary. Whether I like more corporate boxes, the Flames need a new arena for that reason alone, they are missing out since Calgary is such a big corporate city. So actually the argument for money towards an arena alone is much stronger than the fieldhouse, even if I'd still be against it.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

McMahon isn't a proper stadium

A proper stadium for what, sitting vacant 318 days a year?

What else is going to happen in McMahon of the future that isn't happening now?

Noise bylaws will still hinder concerts, Calgary is unlikely to get an MLS team in the next decade, there is no baseball to be played there.

The stamps hosted the grey cup there Luke 6 or 7 years ago, right? It can't be that bad.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Then we will be a city without a proper stadium facility unlike almost every other major Canadian city. Is that what we want to be? If it is that's fine but it is a path that is basically a step back on what we are as a city

You're laying alot of this private, for profit venture; failing, on the city.

What % do our ownership invest into a new facility?

[Joborule]

I think that if CSEC is trying to lure more casual fans to watch Stamps game, the fieldhouse option is there best bet; which is why they proposed the CalgaryNEXT project which has opened up the discussion of the concept. I believe that a renovation to McMahon most likely isn't feasible because it would be the costs (or even more) of a brand new outdoor stadium itself.

Since CSEC doesn't want to pay hundreds of millions for a football stadium on top of the hundreds of millions for a new hockey arena, they want the city and whomever to cover the majority for a new football venue. But the city isn't (nor should it) be interested in that. However since the city is going to build the fieldhouse, so CSEC can get it's wish by hopping on to that.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

You're laying alot of this private, for profit venture; failing, on the city.

What % do our ownership invest into a new facility?

No I'm not. I'm asking what type of city we want to be. I've not even talked about who should pay

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

No I'm not. I'm asking what type of city we want to be. I've not even talked about who should pay

And as I asked in my anecdotal story (that can't be that anecdotal seeing as it's public transit usage), do we actually wanna be a world class city, or just appear to be one? Every "world class" city I've visited has outstanding transit service. We have (marginally) acceptable transit service. We don't even have 24 hour transit service unlike most world class cities. We have a ways to go before even getting close to a world class city. A shinny arena/stadium project is not changing that very much.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

A proper stadium for what, sitting vacant 318 days a year?

What else is going to happen in McMahon of the future that isn't happening now?

Noise bylaws will still hinder concerts, Calgary is unlikely to get an MLS team in the next decade, there is no baseball to be played there.

The stamps hosted the grey cup there Luke 6 or 7 years ago, right? It can't be that bad.

The new stadium would not be empty 318 days a year. The only reason this one is, is due to the restrictions of McMahon's use. People see a new stadium and only attribute the Stampeders to it. A new stadium at a new location would open it up for many uses. It's more than just the CFL, a City the size of Calgary needs a functional stadium.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

The new stadium would not be empty 318 days a year. The only reason this one is, is due to the restrictions of McMahon's use. People see a new stadium and only attribute the Stampeders to it. A new stadium at a new location would open it up for many uses. It's more than just the CFL, a City the size of Calgary needs a functional stadium.

If these uses are so numerous can you list a couple for me?

[RM14]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I'm really not confident that a McMahon renovation is sufficient. I know the term world class is being used tongue in cheek but it is an important point. Just renovating McMahon would say a lot about our city

To renovate McMahon, and put real seats where the benches currently are, they would have to tear down all the concrete and replace it with row that have more leg room. The current set up in bench seating zones is far too tight to be able to add fold-out seats.

The only concrete world keeping, it the original stands build in the early 60s. Everything else is useless to renovate. Basically only the sections pictured here:

[CliffFletcher]

For a new $200 mil stadium to make sense there's gotta be more use for it than a 9-12 games a year of a marginally pro sports league where half the players have second jobs.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

For a new $200 mil stadium to make sense there's gotta be more use for it than a 9-12 games a year of a marginally pro sports league where half the players have second jobs.

and a $100 M reno to Mcmahon has even less value for what the outcome would be. $200 M gets you 10 times the finished project than $100 M.

Much better to do what Sask did and built from scratch.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

For a new $200 mil stadium to make sense there's gotta be more use for it than a 9-12 games a year of a marginally pro sports league where half the players have second jobs.

Originally Posted by RM14

and a $100 M reno to Mcmahon has even less value for what the outcome would be. $200 M gets you 10 times the finished project than $100 M.

Much better to do what Sask did and built from scratch.

Orrr...... not at all? Unless they have a new plan to make CFL popular with people under 30, that league will fold by the time a new stadium is built.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by RM14

To renovate McMahon, and put real seats where the benches currently are, they would have to tear down all the concrete and replace it with row that have more leg room. The current set up in bench seating zones is far too tight to be able to add fold-out seats.

Why bother replacing the benches with real seats? Just bolt on some back rest railings.