[Trade] Flames acquire Roman Horak and 2x 2011 2nd rd picks for Tim Erixon and 5th rd pick

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I'd actually seeing that as an upshot of moving Kiprusoff. This team should be a good defensive team, then add a star goalie to make them good. Not lean on a star goalie and hold on for dear life.

Yeah, I think it would be interesting to see in today's NHL. Elite goalies are only necessary for teams with a real shot at the cup.

Final would look different if Philly had Kipper IMO.

Also, Pronger playing in front of Kipper = Vezina IMO.

[transplant99]

So Erixon and Erikkson were teamates this past season.....along with Joacim Lindstrom....things that make you go hmmm.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by 868904

You aren't looking at everything that went on for both the Flames and the Canucks. You make it sound like Bieksa and Edler were given spots as soon as they turned pro, when that is not the case. Both players spent time in the AHL and "earned" spots in the NHL. The Canucks brought in lots of vets from other organizations such as Hamhuis, Ballard, Errhoff, Salo, Rome, Alberts. The only difference is, it's worked out better for the Canucks right now. Both the Flames and the Canucks have the same approach to developing players. They both have vets and youngsters and they don't just "hand" spots out, youngsters have to earn it. The same went for kesler and Burrows. They played in the AHL too.

There is one thing for playing in the AHL there is another thing for not giving players a chance - I think it is likely that Erixson acted in bad faith and had no intention to sign with the Flames but the Flames didn't do themselves any favours and give him reasons to sign with the Flames. I think that the way they have handled young players for years now - where the chances to crack the lineup have existed but the Flames just kept bringing in old, slow veteran players instead.

And if you want to know the big difference between the Flames and the Canucks, it is the fact that the Flames evidently had players who were NHL ready in the minor leagues waiting to get a shot - I can't think of any players from the Moose who are playing a regular shift on other teams but the the Heat/Quad City/Omaha, there is Commadore, Montador, Wilson, Aulie.

The issue was a system issue though, look at Taratukhin, good young player, came over for a year which indicated he was looking at playing in the NHL at the very least, isn't given a sniff and goes back to Russia. While he may not have been a great player or anything the potential was there and the Flames didn't take advantage of it.

If a player is ready, the Flames will play them. Phaneuf went straight to the NHL. Brodie started last year as 20 year old FIRST year pro before they sent him down for more seasoning in the AHL. Pelech has been given time, but injuries have killed his career. Erixon WAS going straight to Calgary. His spot on the first powerplay unit was pretty much guaranteed because no one was going to challenge him opposite Giordano.

And again, the salary cap issues are moot because by the time Erixon is up for a raise, there will be plenty of cap space.

Erixon just wanted to play for the Rangers and these are just lame excuses to mask the fact that he's a whiny b*tch.

Sorry but if history repeats itself Erixson had a strong possibility of heading to Abbotsford. I remember people being excited about Ramholt as well and I still think that the Flames handled him very poorly and killed any career he may have had.

[Lunatik]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So Erixon and Erikkson were teamates this past season.....along with Joacim Lindstrom....things that make you go hmmm.

better question is Eriksson represented by Grossman?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I remember people being excited about Ramholt as well and I still think that the Flames handled him very poorly and killed any career he may have had.

You need to get your memory checked then. Ramholt has no one but himself to blame, as he decided to go back to Europe and play in a crappy league (against the Flames wishes) instead of continuing to develop in the CHL and AHL. He lost two critical years of development while playing in the Swiss league.

[Lunatik]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Sorry but if history repeats itself Erixson had a strong possibility of heading to Abbotsford. I remember people being excited about Ramholt as well and I still think that the Flames handled him very poorly and killed any career he may have had.

Ramholt killed his own career when he went back to Switzerland to play, he did this against the Flames wishes from what I understand

edit: Roof-Daddy beat me to it

[Vulcan]

I'm not sure why this is the case with Rundblad, but it might be because of when his birthday is, this is why he was ineligible for the WJC this year as well... its all why Spencer Bennett was an overage WHLer despite being drafted in his first eligible draft... and why Nazim Kardi was eligible to be in the AHL this season

I don't know about Runblad either but Backlund was signed when he was 19 and played that year both in Sweden and Kelowna and we never lost a year off his entry level contract, so we probably could have signed Erixon last year without losing a year off his contract.

I don't know the deal with Bennet except maybe they use the year they were born for eligibility whereas the NHLs draft year starts in Oct. For Kardri, I believe he spent 4 seasons in the OHL, and that trumps the 20 age rule. I believe Fata fell under the same rule and played in the AHL as a 19 year old.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Lunatik

Ramholt killed his own career when he went back to Switzerland to play, he did this against the Flames wishes from what I understand

edit: Roof-Daddy beat me to it

I remembered a 45 second shift which ended with a turnover and the end of his NHL career. I googled it and you are right about the Swiss League thing - which at the same time could just be a homesick kid and a career playing hockey in Switzerland doesn't seem like the worst job in the world.

[Lunatik]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I remembered a 45 second shift which ended with a turnover and the end of his NHL career.

so 45 seconds determines a career? why didn't he get a chance in Philly or Nashville after we gave up on him?... It's pretty clear the answer is because he is not good enough

as for his 45 second shift, Keenan was right o do it, Ramholt should have never been recalled

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I remembered a 45 second shift which ended with a turnover and the end of his NHL career.

Not really - Philly liked him enough to trade for him. He couldn't get into that lineup either.

Not only did he harm himself by going over to Switzerland by while over there he played in an inferior league, and barely played at all to boot.

He had potential but he made a bad decision that cost him two critical years.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I still think it sets a bad precedent for an NHL club when you have a young player who was still a prospect getting a single 45 second shift - it might have been the right hockey move but I think the optics of it were horrible in the sense that other prospects take note of those actions. He was buried after that and I would imagine that his confidence was gone afterward, he lasted one more year and now he is making a living in the Swiss leagues.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

While I agree it seems likely Erixion wanted to go to the Rangers to be with his dad from day one it does beg 2 questions, why the hell did the Flames draft him as I doubt this was a secret? and if they drafted him anyway, knowing they weren't on his wish list, why didn't they start woeing him from day one even if it meant putting him in the lineup too early?

If you know you are drafting a kid that doesn't want to be with your team you had better start kissing his arse early and often to avoid this.

Sutter's zeal for Swedes and poor scouts and connections in the league to people who could have warned them of things like this. If we are drafting Europeans, we need a few more European contacts as well.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

There is one thing for playing in the AHL there is another thing for not giving players a chance - I think it is likely that Erixson acted in bad faith and had no intention to sign with the Flames but the Flames didn't do themselves any favours and give him reasons to sign with the Flames. I think that the way they have handled young players for years now - where the chances to crack the lineup have existed but the Flames just kept bringing in old, slow veteran players instead.

And if you want to know the big difference between the Flames and the Canucks, it is the fact that the Flames evidently had players who were NHL ready in the minor leagues waiting to get a shot - I can't think of any players from the Moose who are playing a regular shift on other teams but the the Heat/Quad City/Omaha, there is Commadore, Montador, Wilson, Aulie.

The issue was a system issue though, look at Taratukhin, good young player, came over for a year which indicated he was looking at playing in the NHL at the very least, isn't given a sniff and goes back to Russia. While he may not have been a great player or anything the potential was there and the Flames didn't take advantage of it.



Sorry but if history repeats itself Erixson had a strong possibility of heading to Abbotsford. I remember people being excited about Ramholt as well and I still think that the Flames handled him very poorly and killed any career he may have had.

Why must you bring up Ramholt???? We could have taken Weber instead

If you agree with me that Erixon is a whiny b*itch then i'll agree with you that the Flames in the PAST have brought in vets to push the kids

But, I still think both the Flames and Canucks have done the same thing. I think the Canucks have lucked out in drafting winners like Kesler, Burrows and Bieksa (shoot me now please ) whereas the Flames have drafted losers like Phaneuf, Pelech and Chucko.

And up until two years before Darryl lost his marbles, both teams were fairly even. If Darryl got even a half decent return on Phaneuf and Jokinen (Ranger deal) instead of albatrossing this team with stajan, Hagman and Kotalik, things might be very different. I don't blame Darryl for going after Bouwmeester, because EVERYONE including Gillis were after him.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by valo403

According to facebook he's a middle aged married man from Ankarsrum

Yah, I know Joacim Lindstrom. He's a big guy! Goes about 6'7", 385. Did you know he's the godfather of my son? Well, anyway.. he shows up at the church in his golf pants, caked in mud. Well, ol' Joacim Lindstrom pushes the priest aside and says, "I'll baptize that piece of calimari!" Then he pours Scotch all over my baby son and says, "There! You're baptized!"

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I still think it sets a bad precedent for an NHL club when you have a young player who was still a prospect getting a single 45 second shift - it might have been the right hockey move but I think the optics of it were horrible in the sense that other prospects take note of those actions. He was buried after that and I would imagine that his confidence was gone afterward, he lasted one more year and now he is making a living in the Swiss leagues.

The only reason he got in the lineup at all was because of injuries. He wasn't even close to being an NHL quality dman at that point.

He wasn't buried because of a bad shift, he was buried because he sucked.

You are lecturing Flames fans on a prospect that is clear you actually don't have the background and context on. I'm not saying that your overall criticisms towards the organization don't have merit - but the Ramholt example is a poor one.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by 868904

Erixon is not Pelech or Negrin or Breen. He was the best prospect the Flames have developed since Phaneuf. He was going to play this year, Feaster stated that very clearly. This was the perfect situation for him.

If by "developed" you mean put a jersey on him when they drafted him, sure. But otherwise, I think we'd all be hard pressed to cite a meaningful example of how the Flames have contributed to his development.

Therefore I think talking about Erixon in the context of the club's ability to develop players is not meaningful. I would be hesitant to draw any inferences in this regard.

For me, it's relatively clear that the kid wanted to play for the Rangers. His dad played there, and if it's true that he also has a family member or whatnot in the system, then i think that's enough dots connected to form the picture. The kid got his wish, aided in part by an agent that is willing to do that kinda handiwork.

Maybe when he gets to his beloved team, he can ask them why they passed him up in the draft that year

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

As I said I don't think that Erixon acted in good faith and he didn't want to play in Calgary (or in all likelihood anywhere but with the Rangers) but the Flames didn't give him any reasons to want to play here. I think that this is a loophole that the NHL should look at and perhaps bargain with the union by increasing the years from 2 to 3 or 4 that a team has to sign a player but I doubt that the union would agree to that.

[sworkhard]

Although I think the Rangers were at the top of the list, I think he would have signed without a problem on most of the bottom 10 teams in the league if he had gone back into the draft.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

well very few players make money in endorsements, i doubt a mid range 1st rounder has that concern.

secondly, these are humans, not serfs. if they dont want to sign with the club that drafted them, then they shouldnt forced to just because some fans think its a problem.

how about we balance this issue, just as you think every player MUST sign with the club that drafted them, in exchange the club MUST sign every player they draft?

why does the team get that option but the player doesnt?

I thought I offered a balance. The player loses one year eligibility to the draft. This would at least encourage him to give decent notice to his prospective team which would have gave them more time to work out a trade. What Erixon did was string Calgary along which in turn limited what they got for him.

I don't think players should be treated like serfs but, the NHL would be much poorer if they let prospects dictate which teams they play on.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

As I said I don't think that Erixon acted in good faith and he didn't want to play in Calgary (or in all likelihood anywhere but with the Rangers) but the Flames didn't give him any reasons to want to play here. I think that this is a loophole that the NHL should look at and perhaps bargain with the union by increasing the years from 2 to 3 or 4 that a team has to sign a player but I doubt that the union would agree to that.

I think they gave him at least 3 million reasons worth.

Sorry I just can't see how the Flames are in the wrong here at all. By all accounts, this is a first class organization in how it treats its players. It may suck on the ice, but Ken King and Darryl Sutter before Feaster have always stood up for their players. It's why players cry when they leave and why they come back when they can.

If you say the Flames didn't give him any reason to want to play here then let me ask you what else they could have done?

Moved the team to NY? Rename the team to "the Erixon's of NY"? Hire his dad as GM and trade for his cousin Lindberg? Or maybe Feaster should have been talking with them DURING the season even though IIHF rules prohibit it, but then that would be as unethical as an opposing GM trying to convince an agent of a player to hold out signing with the team that drafted him until the last minute so he can strike a better deal in acquiring said player?