Francis with Kerr: Who is going?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by dammage79

A package of players that delivers greater balance within the top nine forward group. Have three lines that can score instead of one player in on close to %50 of the teams offense.

Sounds good, but when has that ever worked? I can’t think of a single example of a quality for quantity trade that paid dividends. Maybe Lindros to Philly (Forsberg among the return) but Johnny’s no Lindros.

[Locke]

Trading Johnny and Hamilton?

"This team loses a lot because it doesnt have enough talent! Lets take the most talented players and then trade them....."

Brilliant stuff.

[Toonage]

Quite frankly I'd rather keep GG than lose Gaudreau.

[PugnaciousIntern]

I refuse to believe that management would consider moving Gaudreau before changing the coach

[redforever]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

to me that is Dougie Hamilton, sure he has the stats but his compete level and brain cramps make him a guy i dont think you win with. Johnny shows way more intensity and seems to hate to lose more than hamilton.

Weren't people crapping on Hamilton earlier in the season? saying something about him being responsible for his brother being with the Flames? and wondering how he would play or if he would pout once his brother was gone?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Lol.

Jiri look what you did to this thread! Even a hint of suggestion that you think Johnny may be trade bait and CP comes together like I haven’t seen in many moons.


Ok seriously though, this thread has gone off the rails. Can we maybe get away from a bunch of posts overreacting to one persons opinion?

The radio clip has nothing to do with trading Gaudreau.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Quite frankly I'd rather keep GG than lose Gaudreau.

Sophie's Choice

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It’s just not a credible discussion to talk about trading Gaudreau unless you identify the players you are targeting. Trading Gaudreau isn’t addition by subtraction. You are not auctioning off an asset in a rebuild.

It’s about acquiring elite talent. The fact that no one is willing to identify the player they’d target in dealing Gaudreau speaks volumes about the idea.

You rarely acquire elite talent in trades and, quite frankly, we have some elite talent, why would we want to risk getting rid of it?

This should not be a 'Hall for 3 Magic Beans' scenario.

[sa226]

The Gaudreau talk is laugh out loud ridiculous.

The Monahan talk I understand. He can be a bit polarizing. He goes for stretches where he doesn't look like he is doing a damn thing. But then you look at his GWG and his consistency. How quickly we forget that matched up against Kelser, Monahan was one of our best forwards last spring.

Monahan and Gaudreau are not the problem with this team.

After that? Heck if I know.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dammage79

A package of players that delivers greater balance within the top nine forward group. Have three lines that can score instead of one player in on close to %50 of the teams offense.

Doug Gilmour and Dion Phaneuf say hi. Maybe we can start a new collection of 20 goal scorers.

Let’s get serious. This team needs more talent, not less.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I particularly love how he said Monahan doesn't care about winning just 48 hours before it was announced he was playing through potentially season ending injurieS while the team was still in the last stages of the hunt.

Francis is doing what he does. The fact it feeds the hysteria of the small but very vocal group of chicken-littles in this fanbase is the truly sad part.

Hahah
I'm not sure if you're calling me a chicken little, but I'm certainly not vocal, or particularly doom and gloom.
I don't think Monahan shows the passion that I expect to see from our best players. That's not a comment about Monahan's play in the second half of the season in particular; it's a comment on his entire tenure here.
I think he's a fantastic player, but if that (perceived) lack of passion is the difference between winning and losing, I'm happy to cash in his chips.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This has Burke-Treliving valuing intangibles too much over actual talent. This could get very ugly with skill going out and grit coming back in.

Franchise ruining philosophy to put so much emphasis on intangibles. If this is true of course. However when you listen to these individuals talk you can hear how much value they do put on things other than hockey playing ability.

It also reeks of saying the coaching/style of play was not a fault. When everyone can see the results - style of play was not suited to the talents of the players. It was a grinding, defensive style.

I don't want to get worked up over rumours but if true these would be fandom wrecking decisions.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Locke

You rarely acquire elite talent in trades and, quite frankly, we have some elite talent, why would we want to risk getting rid of it?

This should not be a 'Hall for 3 Magic Beans' scenario.

Yes that is my point. The fact that those suggesting trading Gaudreau can’t name a player they’d target is very telling.

Unless they ant to tear the whole thing down. Then why stop with Gaudreau.

[flambers]

Hamilton could be traded, in my opinion...

If he is traded, reason why... he has value

Not sure, Brodie has the same type of value.... he had a really tough season.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

Hahah
I'm not sure if you're calling me a chicken little, but I'm certainly not vocal, or particularly doom and gloom.
I don't think Monahan shows the passion that I expect to see from our best players. That's not a comment about Monahan's play in the second half of the season in particular; it's a comment on his entire tenure here.
I think he's a fantastic player, but if that (perceived) lack of passion is the difference between winning and losing, I'm happy to cash in his chips.

All I can say to that is I'm glad you're not in charge of the chips.

You're entitled to your opinion, but Monahan is going to be a 40+ goal scorer moving forward in my opinion. I get he's lacking elsewhere, but this is another potential turn-off in this discussion that is not going anywhere near the underlaying problem.

[kyuss275]

This could have been a good thread but has turned into a don't trade Johnny thread.

How about we talk about what other players that might be on the list . Kerr was pretty adamant during a road trip weeks ago that he saw stuff that needed to be dealt with in off season.

I think top of list is Hamilton and Ferland.
Personally think flames top 6 centres are to passive. I wouldn't have re-signed Backlund.

Cases could be made that Bennett and Brodie should be moved , but I'm not sure they fall into the Francis and Kerr list.

I don't think they were talking about Brouwer. They have both said that he has been a mess for the flames but they do say he tries.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Just an FYI this is now the 2nd post you've responded to (that was quoting someone else) implying it was talking about you that wasn't.

While I disagreed with what you said earlier, that doesn't mean everything I've said after is directed at you.

That’s one of the problems with labeling people

[Table 5]

Know thyself.

Gaudreau is a Kane, a Kessel, a Panarin, a Fleury, a Kariya. Not guys who lead the charge, but guys who play the role of pure raw talent. You need them because they break games open, not because they can play a complete game.

However, you also need a Toews, a Francis, an Sakic...guys who can play a complete game, and lead the way in a more traditional sense. I'm not sure we really have that right now.

Damn it Bennett, this should've been you!

This is also why we need a general for a coach. We lack leadership in the locker room and thus need it behind the bench.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by flambers

Hamilton could be traded, in my opinion...

If he is traded, reason why... he has value

Not sure, Brodie has the same type of value.... he had a really tough season.

But read that post again.

Thats 'Rebuild' talk.

Trading players that have value now means that you're banking on the returning assets in the future as opposed to right now.

Do you want the talent or they mystery box? The mystery box could be anything. Even a talented player. Or not.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Most teams that win have elite two way players
Johnny isn’t that
Is he more like Phil Kessel or Anze Kopitar
I think kessel is a very fair comparison

So are you saying the Flames can’t with him or can’t win without an elite two way player? Those are two different statements.