Liberal John McCallum says that Harper is spreading pessimism about the economy

[Rerun]

Before, back in October, Harper was accused of hiding the facts about the economic turn down and not telling the "people" the real facts... now when he tells it the way he sees in now... he's being too pessimistic and is making a bad situation worse...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...Story/National

Prime Minister Stephen Harper was accused yesterday of exacerbating the economic downturn by spreading pessimism when he should be taking a leadership role by disbursing hope.

"I think human behaviour drives recessions and recoveries, and confidence in the future drives human behaviour," said Liberal MP John McCallum, a former chief economist for the Royal Bank of Canada.
"Especially during difficult times, leaders have to inject confidence and hope into their citizens and Stephen Harper has done precisely the opposite with these comments."

But, apparently, its all right for the former Leader of the Opposition to be pessimistic...

As per their reply to the Speech from the Throne...

Our economic downturn did not start last month. It started nearly a year ago. Canada had the worst performing economy of the G-8 for the first half of 2008. In fact, so far this year, our economy has actually shrunk. It has been our worst economic growth since 1991.
Our country's labour productivity is falling further and further behind the United States. Our productivity has fallen for nine months straight, something that Canada has not seen since 1990. With the fundamentals of our economy already weakened, Canada entered the escalating economic crisis with one hand tied behind its back. The government spin does not match its record. It did not anticipate this and did nothing to prevent it. Look at the economic projections last fall when it cut the GST. The projections were rosy, they were optimistic, they were wrong.
Canadian workers are the ones who suffer the consequences of this government's failure to act. Over the course of the government’s time in office, we have seen a continual, steady, stream of jobs losses in many of our highest-paying industrial sectors, including manufacturing and forestry.

http://www.liberal.ca/story_15489_e.aspx

All this just makes me laugh. If Harper said something was white, the Liberals would immediately start saying Harper was wrong and he's hiding the fact that the color is really black. Then if Harper said "Ok, I think it may be black after all", the Liberals would say "Hold on now, its really not as black as Harper wants people to believe."

[BlackArcher101]

Canadian politics is a joke. And they wonder why they get lower voter turnout.

[Slava]

In other news Harper managed to prorogue the TSX today!

[czure32]

politics are fuuuuuuuuuu....





....uuuun eh?

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Slava

In other news Harper managed to prorogue the TSX today!

Maybe he can tell those fata'ers to unprorogue it then

[Resolute 14]

Liberals being hypocrites?

That's unpossible!

[Cowboy89]

This is more evidence that the average person is financially illeterate. The real reason the econmy is tanking is because somewhere over the past few decades the average consumer stopped viewing consumer goods affordability based on whether or not they had enough money in the bank to cover the purchase and started judging affordability based on whether or not someone would lend them the money or allow them to make payments. Every item that cost over $50 started having 'payment plans.' Prosperity over the past 10-20 years was funded on the backs of money that consumers never had, nor even had the capacity of obtaining. There has to be some delevering for households. No matter how warm and fuzzy a Prime Minister is in his messaging, Joe Blow can't buy that new TV because in a credit/economic crisis no one is going to lend him the money to buy it and he won't have the positive job prospects to be able to properly afford it. You can tell me it's sunny and 30 degrees today, but that doesn't change reality.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Politicians being hypocrites?

That's unpossible!

Fixed.

[Ford Prefect]

When politicians speak, it sounds like they're farting.

[Rerun]

How can you tell when politician's are lying.... their lips are moving

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by fotze

This is a pretty silly stance, but he should be taken to task for pretty much lieing about the economy being fine 2 months ago. And if he wasn't lieing, then the more disturbing thing is that he or his experts were unaware of it. So he was either lieing or we are fataed.

He was being optimistic. I think I read somewhere that human behaviour drives recessions and recoveries, and confidence in the future drives human behaviour.
During difficult times, leaders have to inject confidence and hope into their citizens.

[Cowboy89]

As for Harper's 'stewardship' of the economy, lets not forget the budget released in the spring that didn't make all those useless social engineering spending increases that the dippers and the Libs were criticizing them for. He called 'trouble ahead' well before Dion and Layton even admitted weakness in the Canadian economy. Also introducing the TFSA, was an amazing piece of long-term policy work aimed at delevering households by increasing savings. None of the other parties would have even had a subconscious thought about introducing that. Afterall in their eyes savings, investments, et al are only tools employed by the rich to further opress the poor!

Whether or not you trust the Tories with allowing you and your transgendered lifepartner to marry or not is certainly a legitimate concern with a Harper government, but honestly I don't see any opposition party under any leadership scenario do anything more for the economy than open the government purse to their favored industries, friends, and benefactors and call it an economic 'stimulus' plan. They'll pick winners and losers, not based on merit, but rather simply for political and personal gain. So if it's the Liberals: big bailouts for Bombardier, Magna, Canada Steamship Lines, Air Canada (Basically any company with class 'A' and 'B' shares or ties to the Liberal party), and nothing but higher future corporate and personal taxes for the rest of us to pay for this 'stimulus package.' If it's the NDP in a coalition add trade Unions, random cheques for random social engineering purposes ('Green Urban Starving artist equalization fund,' 'Multi-cultural Bilingual Gay Quadriplegic Student assistance fund,' etc.) and a smattering of new taxes and fees (Excess success tax, Investment account ownership fee).

[Slava]

^ WOW. That post is simply amazing in its ignorance of a number of facts regarding bailouts and misinformation of what happened last parliament.

1) The Tories provided millions of dollars in subsidies to both Bombardier and Ford immediately before this last election. They commited $80 million IIRC to re-open a Ford plant in Ontario, and helped subsidize the latest mid-sized jet by Bombardier! I guess those corporations have ties to the CPC? Clearly there is no other reason that a sitting government would ever save workers jobs during the worse financial crisis in decades!

2. A Liberal backbencher introduced legislation last session to allow for tax savings on RESP contributions. Explain to me how this only benefits the rich, or any of the other accusations that you are making here about the lack of savings that the Liberals would have you undertake.

Its pretty clear that this is nothing more than pure partisanship on your part. The rhetoric in your post is simply amazing. I'll be the first to admit that the TFSA's are a great thing for people to have access to, but its certainly not the great panacea that you would have us believe. I'll also come right out and say that companies like Bombardier who are in the business of receiving subsidies should be allowed to suffer the fate of the markets if they cannot become successful, but don't try to pin their subsidy mongering on one party when the other is not only as guilty, but more recently!

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ WOW. That post is simply amazing in its ignorance of a number of facts regarding bailouts and misinformation of what happened last parliament.

1) The Tories provided millions of dollars in subsidies to both Bombardier and Ford immediately before this last election. They commited $80 million IIRC to re-open a Ford plant in Ontario, and helped subsidize the latest mid-sized jet by Bombardier! I guess those corporations have ties to the CPC? Clearly there is no other reason that a sitting government would ever save workers jobs during the worse financial crisis in decades!

2. A Liberal backbencher introduced legislation last session to allow for tax savings on RESP contributions. Explain to me how this only benefits the rich, or any of the other accusations that you are making here about the lack of savings that the Liberals would have you undertake.

Its pretty clear that this is nothing more than pure partisanship on your part. The rhetoric in your post is simply amazing. I'll be the first to admit that the TFSA's are a great thing for people to have access to, but its certainly not the great panacea that you would have us believe. I'll also come right out and say that companies like Bombardier who are in the business of receiving subsidies should be allowed to suffer the fate of the markets if they cannot become successful, but don't try to pin their subsidy mongering on one party when the other is not only as guilty, but more recently!

Nothing's a great panacea. We're totally at the mercy of the world commodities market and US Consumer spending for our manufactured goods. Continuing funding losing businesses is a completely useless and counter intuitive. All we really can do is mange our money wisely so to keep our credit situation competitive. Quite frankly we have to grin and bear it. Even if that means high unemployment. Some of the numbers being bandied about in order to save jobs are rediculous especially considering they are most likely uncompetitive jobs even in good times and won't be around in 5 years anyway. I would propose the only bailout would be to bolster EI and the CPP, and other safety nets and let all failing businesses sink or swim. This business of picking winners and losers will only serve political means whichever party enacts a 'bailout' package. The market will recover eventualy. Let's not spend money like its going out of style inefficiently.

[PsYcNeT]

I predict by the middle of page 2, this thread will be a veritable who's who of CPs far-right, and nothing constructive will be said about either party.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I predict by the middle of page 2, this thread will be a veritable who's who of CPs far-right, and nothing constructive will be said about either party.

The point is.... that when it comes to the opposition:

Originally Posted by Rerun

All this just makes me laugh. If Harper said something was white, the Liberals would immediately start saying Harper was wrong and he's hiding the fact that the color is really black. Then if Harper said "Ok, I think it may be black after all", the Liberals would say "Hold on now, its really not as black as Harper wants people to believe."

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I predict by the middle of page 2, this thread will be a veritable who's who of CPs far-right, and nothing constructive will be said about either party.

Probably because there's nothing constructive that can be said about either party ... or the NDP, Greens or Bloc either for that matter.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I predict by the middle of page 2, this thread will be a veritable who's who of CPs far-right, and nothing constructive will be said about either party.

Maybe if you can call them 'extreme' and add a 'far' prefix to 'right' loud and long enough maybe you can stave of any serious discussion of their ideas racked up side by side with more 'progressive' alternatives. Dismissing ideas based on where they come from rather than on their merrit is just as ignorant as being partisan.

[PsYcNeT]

Who is dismissing ideas friend? I'm simply stating that more often than not, threads like this are created so everyone can have a frothy partisan party love-fest.

I'm truly for neither party, but the degree of animosity heaped on a political entity in this forum borders on a hate crime.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Who is dismissing ideas friend? I'm simply stating that more often than not, threads like this are created so everyone can have a frothy partisan party love-fest.

I'm truly for neither party, but the degree of animosity heaped on a political entity in this forum borders on a hate crime.

Then do something about it for the good of the thread in your eyes and argue your viewpoint about the merit of a Prime Minister's words to influence our economy in the short term instead of harping on who you consider to be CP's usual suspects for this thread.

Any animosity towards said party was well-deserved after they were caught exchanging envelopes of taxpayer money in Quebec restaurants.

Hate Crime LOL: Until Conservatives start making that party's supporters/voters wear little "L's" on their jackets and move to ghettos I think that's a rediculous and unwarrented hyperbole.