France Election Fallout

[activeStick]

So, I have a colleague who works out of our Montreal office, in town this week for client meetings and during drinks last night, he brought up the elections in his hometown of France which I admitedly had zero insight into beyond knowing they had an election fairly recently and that Macron's party lost.

What he said is basically happening there is that after the loss, Macron used the Olympics as one of their reasons for not moving out and transitioning their power over to the party that won, which is on the left. Now that the Olympics are over, he's saying that Macron's group is essentially not willing to accept the results of the election and the person that the winning party has nominated to be the incoming leader or PM (I think?).

This sounds a lot like Trump in 2020, no? Has anyone been following this closely?


https://www.politico.eu/article/fran...ont-coalition/

PARIS — France remains stuck in political limbo after President Emmanuel Macron on Monday refused to accept the election-winning left’s candidate for prime minister.

Macron — who, as head of state, is responsible for appointing a new prime minister and government — met with party heads and parliamentary leaders across the political spectrum Monday. He then issued a statement indicating he wouldn’t name a head of government from the left-wing New Popular Front coalition that won June’s legislative election, arguing that this would lead to instability.

https://www.dw.com/en/anger-after-ma...ent/a-70055758

French President Emmanuel Macron on Monday dismissed the idea of naming a left-wing government to end the country's political deadlock, in a move that sparked anger among the country's leftist alliance.

Macron said that having a left-wing government would threaten "institutional stability," in comments that riled the New Popular Front (NFP).

The left-wing alliance is made up of the hard-left France Unbowed (LFI), the Socialists, the Communists and the Greens. The NFP secured the most seats in the country's parliamentary election earlier this summer.

Green Party leader Marine Tondelier said Macron's announcement was a disgrace, adding that he was ignoring the election results. France Unbowed's parliamentary group leader Mathilde Panot even threatened Macron with impeachment.

The LFI reacted with fury, with its national coordinator Manuel Bompard calling Macron's remarks an "unacceptable anti-democratic coup."

LFI leader Jean-Luc Melenchon called for a "firm and strong response" by the public and politicians, including a "motion of impeachment" against the president.

[bizaro86]

I thought Macron's party and the leftists had an "anybody but the far right" deal going in that election where they agreed to step down for each other's candidates?

Now that his last tactical decision ended up with his party not winning he wants a do-over?

[Locke]

So...when do they Man the Barricades and hear the people sing?

Its a shame they missed Bastille Day. Elections should always be held on Bastille Day with all of the candidates locked up.

[activeStick]

Yeah, that's what it seems like. Or sort of like, "we're cool with you guys taking over, but not that person!!". Extra embarassing that while they do things like this, they joined their friends recently to question other sovereign countries' election results. Fix your own house first.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Locke

So...when do they Man the Barricades and hear the people sing?



Its a shame they missed Bastille Day. Elections should always be held on Bastille Day with all of the candidates locked up.

Haha I jokingly suggested this to my colleague too given the French people's history of protests, etc and he said it'll happen soon, he has zero doubt.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Yeah, that's what it seems like. Or sort of like, "we're cool with you guys taking over, but not that person!!". Extra embarassing that while they do things like this, they joined their friends recently to question other sovereign countries' election results. Fix your own house first.

Ahahahahaha!!!



Ahahahahaha!!!

Have you met the French? Fix their own problems??? Not be judgmental?

[FlamesAddiction]

They should impeach him. If he has knowledge of some national security threats that justifies is, he should have to answer for it. If not, he should appoint the Prime Minister that was elected, like the French system is intended to work.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Haha I jokingly suggested this to my colleague too given the French people's history of protests, etc and he said it'll happen soon, he has zero doubt.

He's right.

Its like its in their DNA.

"Excusez moi! Could you riot elsewhere for a moment?!? I am enjoying my croissant!"

"We do not Rebel on weekends! Only Tuesdays through Thursdays and not on Holidays! And only between the hours of 10 and 2!"

The French know what they're about and they like a good riot.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

They should impeach him. If he has knowledge of some national security threats that justifies is, he should have to answer for it.

Oh, this... My colleague said it's unlikely to pass because of votes required or something... Something like more than 50% would be needed in their parliament and I think while Macron did lose, the winning left side does not have the majority of seats.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by activeStick

This sounds a lot like Trump in 2020, no? Has anyone been following this closely?

The French system is weird and I don't think it's really like Trump.

Macron actually lost to a far right party, but they have a 2nd round of voting and scrambled together a coalition to win all the 2nd round votes for left leaning parties.
A lot of "I'll step out of the way this round so we don't split votes" to keep the far right out.

That worked and the lefts won the election (minority government) but now have to appoint a leader since it's a coalition quickly formed to stop the right and didn't have a clear leader going into the election.
It's not like a formed left party and leader won the election (like the NDP in Canada for example)

Someone more knowledgeable than me can clarify how this all works and where I'm wrong here.

[Locke]

In all seriousness however we really should be paying more attention to this.

France at the moment is a Canary in our Coal mine. The last couple died already and we were too stupid to pay attention (Looking at Italy and Eastern Europe and side-eyeing America).

'Strong Men' and Right-Wing is getting back into positions of power.

Why?

Because we have a lot of fairly Liberal democracies whose policies are causing more problems than they solve and creating degrees of unrest. Thats typically when people start getting upset and the loudmouths get a platform that is listened to.

Its a tale as old as time.

- Inflation is rampant
- Jobs are scarce
- Cost of living is becoming unaffordable
- Housing shortages
- Immigration is unchecked
- Homelessness is becoming a problem
- Drug epidemics
- Land Wars in Europe and Middle East

Guess what this is going to lead to? Because we've seen this show before.

And unfortunately, its real easy (not necessarily true) to point fingers at the Liberal Democracies that essentially either actively or passively allowed it to happen.

Like I said. We've seen this movie already.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I thought Macron's party and the leftists had an "anybody but the far right" deal going in that election where they agreed to step down for each other's candidates?

Now that his last tactical decision ended up with his party not winning he wants a do-over?

Macron very probably held the election to give himself a legitimate reason to ally with the far-right. Basically every "center-right" party in Europe is currently looking to do exactly that.

(It's basically the same alliance that the Republicans have already formed, just within one party, and not quite as successfully.)

So the problem for Macron isn't that his party didn't win, it's that the left won, and now his party should be working with them... and like the rest of his ilk just loathes the idea.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Itse

Macron very probably held the election to give himself a legitimate reason to ally with the far-right. Basically every "center-right" party in Europe is currently looking to do exactly that.

(It's basically the same alliance that the Republicans have already formed, just within one party, and not quite as successfully.)

So the problem for Macron isn't that his party didn't win, it's that the left won, and now his party should be working with them... and like the rest of his ilk just loathes the idea.

If Rennassiance/Ensemble wanted to ally with the far right, why would they collaborate with the NFP to pull nearly 1/3rd of their candidates from the 2nd round of voting for the purpose of preventing the RN from getting more seats?

[CliffFletcher]

Macron is orchestrating all of these electoral and parliamentary tactics to try to keep the far right out of power in France. But the anti- RN coalition is too fractious to form a stable coalition.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Locke

In all seriousness however we really should be paying more attention to this.

France at the moment is a Canary in our Coal mine. The last couple died already and we were too stupid to pay attention (Looking at Italy and Eastern Europe and side-eyeing America).

'Strong Men' and Right-Wing is getting back into positions of power.

I'm not sure I agree the right way to prevent the far right from subverting democracy is to subvert it first.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'm not sure I agree the right way to prevent the far right from subverting democracy is to subvert it first.

Subvert the subverters who are subverting the subverters of democracy.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'm not sure I agree the right way to prevent the far right from subverting democracy is to subvert it first.

Thats not at all what I'm saying.

My contention is that what we should be doing is coming up with well-reasoned, well thought-out plans to preserve social institutions both socially and fiscally.

What we have right now isn't working and its essentially a pendulum.

Institutional failures and poor planning create hardships on a populace and essentially turns their heads the other way to people who also have no plans or ideas to remedy those hardships other than blaming them on other people.

We have stop being populist Neanderthals and start properly thinking as a society and instead of reacting to issues as they pop up and playing 'whack-a-mole' with the symptoms actually sit down and make hard choices to solidify the foundations of our Democratic institutions.

Rather than..."these guys screwed this up, lets follow this guy instead because he knows they screwed it up but has no actual plan to fix things" like a bunch of dumbass lemmings.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'm not sure I agree the right way to prevent the far right from subverting democracy is to subvert it first.

Macron hasn’t done anything undemocratic or extra-legal. He called an unexpected snap election - within his rights. Then he negotiated with other parties to not run candidates in that election. Not illegal. Now he has turned down a request to name a prime minister from one of the members of that coalition, because he believes - rightly - that it would immediately fall to a no-confidence vote.

Shenanigans happen in countries that have proportional representation, coalition governments, and ranked balloting. But none of this is subverting democracy.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Macron hasn’t done anything undemocratic or extra-legal. He called an unexpected snap election - within his rights. Then he negotiated with other parties to not run candidates in that election. Not illegal. Now he has turned down a request to name a prime minister from one of the members of that coalition, because he believes - rightly - that it would immediately fall to a no-confidence vote.

Shenanigans happen in countries that have proportional representation, coalition governments, and ranked balloting. But none of this is subverting democracy.

In North America things are extremely tame compared to most other parts of the world. The average European nation will have a legislative body made up of a dozen or more parties, including all sorts of fringe and far left/right parties. All sorts of crazy deals have to happen for any one party to form a government.

[redflamesfan08]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats not at all what I'm saying.

My contention is that what we should be doing is coming up with well-reasoned, well thought-out plans to preserve social institutions both socially and fiscally.

What we have right now isn't working and its essentially a pendulum.

Institutional failures and poor planning create hardships on a populace and essentially turns their heads the other way to people who also have no plans or ideas to remedy those hardships other than blaming them on other people.

We have stop being populist Neanderthals and start properly thinking as a society and instead of reacting to issues as they pop up and playing 'whack-a-mole' with the symptoms actually sit down and make hard choices to solidify the foundations of our Democratic institutions.

Rather than..."these guys screwed this up, lets follow this guy instead because he knows they screwed it up but has no actual plan to fix things" like a bunch of dumbass lemmings.

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