Driving Under the Influence

[Mathgod]

Whatever is being done to curb driving under the influence, it's not enough. As a society we need to do more. This is ####ing unacceptable. l can't believe this ####ing #### keeps happening.

[Bill Bumface]

If I go out side with a loaded gun and start shooting it off for kicks and "accidentally kill someone", is that manslaughter? Because that's more how we should think of getting behind the wheel when hammered, IMO.

[CliffFletcher]

In the wake of this sort of tragedy people always call for more severe sentencing. But that won’t move the needle. It’s not as though people who are drunk and getting behind the wheel make an assessment that it’s worth spending 10 years in prison if they kill someone, but they’ll find another way home if they’re looking at 20 years.

Most people drive when they’re over the limit because they have low odds of getting caught. They have low odds of getting caught because check stops are rare. And check stops are rare because they’re really expensive to staff, operate, and process.

Then there’s the full-blown alcoholics. Around 20 years ago, I heard some surprising stats around drunk driving in Calgary. The expert being interviewed said that on any given weeknight in the city, around 70 hardcore alcoholics would be on the roads. They routinely drove drunk because they routinely (ie daily) got drunk. The only thing that would get them off the road would be being pulled over and having their license revoked and their car impounded. But what are the odds of hitting a check stop at 9 pm on a Wednesday driving home to your house in Fairview? Almost zero.

[Bonded]

The only thing that will solve drunk driving is a complete driving ban if a person ever gets a DUI.
People driving like #######s is just and important and harder to solve. Drivers who weave in and out traffic to get slightly ahead or people who go 5 under the speed limit need to take driving lessons. McLeod is a gong show because of that combo.

[Mr.Coffee]

Can’t they just make every single vehicle sold require a blow box to turn on?

Problem solved. Might be expensive at first but manufacturers and society will adjust, just like the introduction of the seatbelt or wipers- just a standard piece that gets added to every car sold. Over time every vehicle will have them.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The only thing that will solve drunk driving is a complete driving ban if a person ever gets a DUI.

This won't solve it anymore than the death penalty or life in prison solves murders.

People drive drunk because a) alcohol is widely available and socially sanctioned and b) there are not good alternatives for transportation.

a) is going to remain, we're not getting rid of booze, so the solution is to deal with b).

We need more, cheaper, easier to access transit options in cities and rural communities and cmmunities that are built to be walkable and bikeable. The solution to drunk driving is to give people the opportunity to get to and from places without their cars.

A further solution is more, better self-driving vehicles. There need to be legal protections put in place to shield car-companies from self-driving accident liabilities. Not eliminate, but shield. This will spur innovation and development of self driving technology that will save lives.

[GGG]

The other part of drinking and driving is it’s remarkably safe. The vast majority of the time people drive drunk nothing happens so it reinforces the behaviour that it’s okay.

Between low likelihood to get caught and low likelihood to get in an accident the behaviour is self reinforced.

The other challange is that is culturally acceptable to have a “few” drinks at dinner and drive home. There are lots of people who have an extra glass of wine or cocktail and then drive home at levels certainly above .05.

Also drinking and driving isn’t even the worst affect of alcohol in terms of how it damages society. Sexual Assualts, Domestic violence, Cancer, liver damage, job loss, unplanned pregnancies, divorce all live in the same ball bark. Society has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

If you want to change drinking and driving I think society’s relationship with alcohol is where it starts.

[marsplasticeraser]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In the wake of this sort of tragedy people always call for more severe sentencing. But that won’t move the needle. It’s not as though people who are drunk and getting behind the wheel make an assessment that it’s worth spending 10 years in prison if they kill someone, but they’ll find another way home if they’re looking at 20 years.

Most people drive when they’re over the limit because they have low odds of getting caught. They have low odds of getting caught because check stops are rare. And check stops are rare because they’re really expensive to staff, operate, and process.

Then there’s the full-blown alcoholics. Around 20 years ago, I heard some surprising stats around drunk driving in Calgary. The expert being interviewed said that on any given weeknight in the city, around 70 hardcore alcoholics would be on the roads. They routinely drove drunk because they routinely (ie daily) got drunk. The only thing that would get them off the road would be being pulled over and having their license revoked and their car impounded. But what are the odds of hitting a check stop at 9 pm on a Wednesday driving home to your house in Fairview? Almost zero.

I've gone through three checkstops in the 30+ years of having a driving licence. Only once was it a Friday or Saturday night coming home from the bar, and that was in Banff of all places!

The cynic in me thinks that the police don't want to work friday and saturday nights, so that is why they don't do more checkstops.

[Locke]

No...I have a few clients who are cops and one thing about Cliff's statement that I know is accurate is that Checkstops are horrendously expensive to put up.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by marsplasticeraser

The cynic in me thinks that the police don't want to work friday and saturday nights, so that is why they don't do more checkstops.

Or maybe it's because those are already the two busiest nights of the week, and Checkstops usually require overtime or special staffing on top of the heavy staffing already in place.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Can’t they just make every single vehicle sold require a blow box to turn on?

Problem solved. Might be expensive at first but manufacturers and society will adjust, just like the introduction of the seatbelt or wipers- just a standard piece that gets added to every car sold. Over time every vehicle will have them.

You can't punish the majority of society that doesn't drive drunk because of the actions of a small minority. However I would completely be on board requiring a blow box for anyone convicted of a DUI, that should be a gimme first step. How many times have we heard of some drunk ####### killing someone with a history of prior DUIs? Your first conviction should be bam, blow box for at least 5 years, until you can prove you've changed

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

You can't punish the majority of society that doesn't drive drunk because of the actions of a small minority. However I would completely be on board requiring a blow box for anyone convicted of a DUI, that should be a gimme first step. How many times have we heard of some drunk ####### killing someone with a history of prior DUIs? Your first conviction should be bam, blow box for at least 5 years, until you can prove you've changed

I don’t really see a blow box as a punishment for anyone. If you’re not drinking, it’s as easy as putting on your seat belt or turning on your lights.

[ah123]

Originally Posted by driveway

a) is going to remain, we're not getting rid of booze, so the solution is to deal with b).

.

I know this is a non-starter, but I will still ask. Given that alcohol has so many negative side-effects, why has there not been an effort to curb drinking more? I sometimes get the impression that going to hockey and football games is more about the beers and less about the game. And alcohol is heavily marketed at games. Any thoughts?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ah123

I know this is a non-starter, but I will still ask. Given that alcohol has so many negative side-effects, why has there not been an effort to curb drinking more? I sometimes get the impression that going to hockey and football games is more about the beers and less about the game. And alcohol is heavily marketed at games. Any thoughts?

Lumping all people who enjoy a drinking responsibly with drunk drivers isn't fair. People have drinks at sports events, because they work hard, for most of their lives, and drinking is relaxing and fun.

Anyone who drives drunk is someone who doesn't care about the rules or other people's safety. I don't see how having more restrictions directed at law abiding citizens who enjoy alcohol is going to stop the drunk drivers.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

You can't punish the majority of society that doesn't drive drunk because of the actions of a small minority. However I would completely be on board requiring a blow box for anyone convicted of a DUI, that should be a gimme first step. How many times have we heard of some drunk ####### killing someone with a history of prior DUIs? Your first conviction should be bam, blow box for at least 5 years, until you can prove you've changed

It's an extremely small inconvenience in my opinion, which would take an additional minute at most to blow, wait for reading and then continue as usual. The problem with having offenders be forced to install one, would be the times when the first incident is a tragic one. I'm in complete support for all vehicles having one of them installed from the get-go, but understand that many will see this as an infringement on their freedoms.

[jwslam]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The only thing that will solve drunk driving is a complete driving ban if a person ever gets a DUI.
People driving like #######s is just and important and harder to solve. Drivers who weave in and out traffic to get slightly ahead or people who go 5 under the speed limit need to take driving lessons. McLeod is a gong show because of that combo.

As if losing the rights to a piece of plastic with their photo is what will eliminate that person has a hazard on the road...

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don’t really see a blow box as a punishment for anyone. If you’re not drinking, it’s as easy as putting on your seat belt or turning on your lights.

Blow boxes are not a 'one and done' solution when installed in a vehicle. While you're driving, they will periodically require you to pull over and re-blow to confirm you haven't been drinking while driving (called a 'rolling retest').

I know this because my cousin got a DUI and had to get one of these installed in his Civic some 15 years ago in Manitoba.

Mandatory blow boxes for those convicted of a DUI, 100% onboard for that. For everyone? Not a chance.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by blankall

Lumping all people who enjoy a drinking responsibly with drunk drivers isn't fair. People have drinks at sports events, because they work hard, for most of their lives, and drinking is relaxing and fun.

Anyone who drives drunk is someone who doesn't care about the rules or other people's safety. I don't see how having more restrictions directed at law abiding citizens who enjoy alcohol is going to stop the drunk drivers.

I think we need to focus on the 'driving part.'

People will complain about drinking but humanity has been drinking or otherwise intoxicating itself since the dawn of time. Thats not going anywhere, its essentially just a part of the Human Condition.

Its the driving bit we should be focusing on.

[jwslam]

Originally Posted by ah123

I know this is a non-starter, but I will still ask. Given that alcohol has so many negative side-effects, why has there not been an effort to curb drinking more? I sometimes get the impression that going to hockey and football games is more about the beers and less about the game. And alcohol is heavily marketed at games. Any thoughts?

I mean effectively, alcohol would be a "drug" that has effects that may not be as crazy as cocaine, mushrooms, etc...
So are you suggesting "safe consumption sites"? Similarly to above, some of the causes of DUI are influenced by lack of available public transport / city sprawling...
If everyone lived in apartments / condos and your best friends live within a 2 block radius, you think there would be as many DUIs? There's plenty of large cities in the world where people go their entire lives not knowing how to drive at all.

In general, why has nothing been changed? Because change instills anger (sometimes it's 1 person, sometimes it's a group, sometimes it's 90% of people) even when it's for the greater good. Literally everything in politics is about this. Change is hard to implement, especially if you want to be holistic in the approach and have answers to all the FAQs

I've always been spouting that a punishment should fit the crime e.g., death for murder, you steal my car then I get your kidneys since you'd likely have nothing else of value...
I mean... specific to the cause of this thread being started, this wouldn't revive the victims (JMG&MRG) nor bring much consolation to the victim's families, but it does eliminate a repeat offender from causing more harm to someone else.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Blow boxes are not a 'one and done' solution when installed in a vehicle. While you're driving, they will periodically require you to pull over and re-blow to confirm you haven't been drinking while driving (called a 'rolling retest').

I know this because my cousin got a DUI and had to get one of these installed in his Civic some 15 years ago in Manitoba.

Mandatory blow boxes for those convicted of a DUI, 100% onboard for that. For everyone? Not a chance.

A friend of mine, deservedly, got one installed. They area fairly large inconvenience and also bring a fair degree of humiliation. Dealing with the thing takes at least a minute every time he starts the car. He then has to periodically blow into it every 10 minutes or so while driving. They also malfunction all the time, killing the motor.

It's a fairly large inconvenience. Not something that should be installed on all vehicles.