Liberals introduce bill to reinstate mandatory long form census

[SebC]

The Liberals introduced a new bill Thursday to bring back the mandatory long-form census, which the Conservative government intends to replace with a volunteer option.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...TorontoNewHome

Wasn't sure if this should've gone in the old thread... mods can merge if they want.

[Devils'Advocate]

Oi.

1) prepare long form for printing with instructions that it is mandatory
2) change long form for printing with instructions that it is not mandatory
3) change long form to remove language questions, change short form to add language questions
4) re-instate long form and change forms back again?

The web people on the other side of the floor are all like "man, we just finished testing the changes...."

[SebC]

My understanding is that the initial change was done by the executive branch of the government. The majority of parliament weren't given the opportunity to reject the change until after it was made.

[old-fart]

Another reason not to ever vote for Lieberals. Their new campaign slogan will be 'vote for us and tell us everything about you'.

Idiots.

[amorak]

I agree with this - Should be mandatory.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Another reason not to ever vote for Lieberals. Their new campaign slogan will be 'vote for us and tell us everything about you'.

Idiots.

You're right, making governmental decisions and allocating funds based on statistic and actual knowledge is just plain idiotic. All that can be easily done with emotional generalizations and gut instinct.

Down with knowledge!

[starseed]

Another reason to vote out the Cons. Their new campaign slogan should be 'vote for us and we will spend $16 billion on useless expensive military equipment to save us from the Russians, $10 billion on super awesome US style prisons and over a billion for security at the G8 when no other host had come close to half that amount!'

Insidious shiesters.

[burn_this_city]

Useless fighter jets?? Last I checked our stuff is pretty well at the end of its life. Leave it to the liberals to have our soldiers so under equipped they pay for it in blood. Our boys the liberals sent into Afghanistan didnt have helicopters to transport supplies. The majority of our losses are by roadside bombs. You do the math.

[Devils'Advocate]

Well, I don't think we will have more money for military equipment if we are spending an extra $25 million on making the long form voluntary.

http://www.thehilltimes.ca/page/view...ity-08-02-2010

[old-fart]

Thank you to all the George Orwell clones who believe Big Brother should know everything about everyone at all times.

Having said that, what's to say the information provided is actually accurate in any way? "Household income" - randomly check a box that makes me feel good about myself for a few seconds. "Number of bathrooms" - well, my son peed his bed when he was 3, does that count? Etc, etc.

Also, critical information required to make meaningful decisions can be gleaned from other sources than the long form invasive census. Tax forms for example provide a wealth of information. The big G knows where I work, what I make, how many kids I have, their names, ages, birthdates, when I got married, where (and if) my wife works, what she makes or doesn't, what I give to charity and which charities, what my portfolio is and on and on. That's one place they already have a wealth of information.

As for the Lieberals idiot suggestion that minorities and people from lower income families won't participate in the census unless threatened with jail time, well, those elitist a-holes are out of power for a reason and given their current direction and leadership, they look to remain out of power for some time to come.

[Codes]

I think in most cases people are pretty honest when filling out these census forms. I'm sure there are a handful of yahoos who make a joke out of it, but they forget the government knows exactly how much they make anyway. Besides, isn't it unlawful to lie on a census?

If it can help the government allocate and spends funds more efficiently, I'm all for it. It's a little bit of a pain in the butt to fill out, but I also remember it being interesting.

[MarchHare]

As for the Lieberals idiot suggestion that minorities and people from lower income families won't participate in the census unless threatened with jail time, well, those elitist a-holes are out of power for a reason

Are you denying that certain demographics are less likely to respond to an optional survey than a mandatory census? If so, can you provide a link to support you claim despite the fact that everyone who is an expert at surveys and statistics -- including the former head of StatsCan -- says otherwise?

[MarchHare]

Also, what's with the common complaint that one's privacy is being violated somehow because of the number of bedrooms/bathrooms question? How is Big Brother going to misuse that info against you? Do you also think your privacy is being violated when your real estate agent lists the number of bedrooms and bathrooms in your residence along with your full address and pictures of both the interior and exterior of your home publicly on the internet for the world to see?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Also, critical information required to make meaningful decisions can be gleaned from other sources than the long form invasive census. Tax forms for example provide a wealth of information. The big G knows where I work, what I make, how many kids I have, their names, ages, birthdates, when I got married, where (and if) my wife works, what she makes or doesn't, what I give to charity and which charities, what my portfolio is and on and on. That's one place they already have a wealth of information.

You would not make for a very good statistician.

We cannot use tax forms as there is a decent percentage of people that do not file their income tax forms. Either they make less than the personal exemption or are owed money and thus don't need to file. For this reason we cannot use tax filings for the purposes of the census. Show me one first world country on the planet that mines their tax filings in lieu of a census. It cannot be done. Or at least not giving anything near the accuracy required. However, I get the impression that those against the census are not really all that interested in having accurate data and giving it to the agencies and businesses that require it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by starseed

Another reason to vote out the Cons. Their new campaign slogan should be 'vote for us and we will spend $16 billion on useless expensive military equipment to save us from the Russians, $10 billion on super awesome US style prisons and over a billion for security at the G8 when no other host had come close to half that amount!'

Insidious shiesters.

Yup it was so awesome that the Liberals let the Military rot, canceled a contract for helicopters at a massive cost just so they could take the chance of our airmen not falling out of the sky on search and rescue missions.

Sending our troops into Afghanistan in Iltis jeeps with floors so rotten and thin that I could push a screw driver through it. Let alone allowing our troops to deploy in forest cammo uniforms just because they didn't want to spend money on desert uniforms. Oh and depending on fighter jets and destroyers reaching end of life.

Yeah those Liberals are awesome, the fact that the Conservatives have actually tried to reverse the damage caused by previous governments probably leans my vote.

Oh and the fact that Iggy has been totally useless and completely out of touch in his tenure as Liberal leader.

And being that I'm not part of the coddle and hug a thug crowd, build the prisons go go go.

[starseed]

Hey, I am just as embarassed by the state of our military as the next Canadian. I am not happy when I hear stories like how our equipment that we used when we entered Afghanistan was so antiquated that it forced our allies to communicate via a method that was easily tapped into. I am just saying he spent the largest chunk of change ever spent on military equipment on aircraft that even a retired Canadian airforce major general could not find a use for. The best explanation that we got was something like 'it is so pretty that it will attract more people into the armed forces'.

As for the expensive, ineffective US style prison system, ya... I would rather not burden my chequebook more just to get revenge on those criminal scum drug abusers. However, since it works so great in the USA, let's try it here!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by starseed

Hey, I am just as embarassed by the state of our military as the next Canadian. I am not happy when I hear stories like how our equipment that we used when we entered Afghanistan was so antiquated that it forced our allies to communicate via a method that was easily tapped into. I am just saying he spent the largest chunk of change ever spent on military equipment on aircraft that even a retired Canadian airforce major general could not find a use for. The best explanation that we got was something like 'it is so pretty that it will attract more people into the armed forces'.

As for the expensive, ineffective US style prison system, ya... I would rather not burden my chequebook more just to get revenge on those criminal scum drug abusers. However, since it works so great in the USA, let's try it here!

Then that airforce general is a fool. The F-18 airframe is over 30 years old, its time for them to go, combine that with the fact that the F-35 is becoming the defacto nato standard, which means easier integration, and a technology that will let them run for another 30 years.

I have no problem with drug heads getting lenient treatment depending on the crime, but I have no problem with building prisons to house violent offenders and sex offenders.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Also, what's with the common complaint that one's privacy is being violated somehow because of the number of bedrooms/bathrooms question? How is Big Brother going to misuse that info against you? Do you also think your privacy is being violated when your real estate agent lists the number of bedrooms and bathrooms in your residence along with your full address and pictures of both the interior and exterior of your home publicly on the internet for the world to see?

I think the idea is that the census should ask for essential information, and listing how many bathrooms doesn't seem very 'essential.'

The real estate agent HAS to post your pictures if you want to sell the house, so your comparison makes no sense.

[Barnes]

Canadian companies and universities received millions and will stand to receive billions with the F 35 systems from the 150+ contracts they received. Why shouldn't we buy a plane we helped design.

As for the census, I don't care. My wife will do it.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think the idea is that the census should ask for essential information, and listing how many bathrooms doesn't seem very 'essential.'

The real estate agent HAS to post your pictures if you want to sell the house, so your comparison makes no sense.

Who uses the census data about bedroom/bathrooms and for what purposes? I honestly don't know. Maybe Devil's Advocate might have some insight into that.

And the comparison makes perfect sense -- people supporting Harper on this issue time and again bring up the fact that they don't want to disclose the number of bedrooms/bathrooms in their residence because...I don't really know why, and I don't think they do either, since they'll gladly list that information for the world to see when they want to sell their home. If someone can explain to me how that question is so egregiously "intrusive", I'm all ears.