StatsCan Head Quits Over Census Dispute - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

RedHot25 · 07-21-2010, 05:44 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/mt_ept/stories/201...s-dispute.html

Munir Sheikh, the head of Statistics Canada, resigned Wednesday over the federal government's decision to scrap the mandatory long-form census.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories...resign_100721/

The head of Statistics Canada has resigned after a controversial decision by the Conservatives to scrap the long-form census, saying a voluntary survey cannot become a substitute for a mandatory one.

...

The Conservative government quietly announced that they would do away with the long-form census in June. Instead, more money will be spent on a voluntary survey that will be sent to more homes.

...

Industry Minister Tony Clement told the Globe and Mail that Sheikh had discussed several options for dealing with the transition from a mandatory census to a voluntary survey. Sheikh was "comfortable with those options," Clement said.

...

"(Sheikh is) clearly very unhappy with the government's position to dumb down the accuracy and reliability of the census," Fife told CTV News Channel Wednesday evening. "He's particularly unhappy with the fact that Tony Clement seemed to finger him as the one who supported this when in fact he doesn't."

...

News of a voluntary census has created an uproar among provincial governments and major Canadian organizations.

mykalberta · 07-21-2010, 06:11 PM

Resolute 14 · 07-21-2010, 06:19 PM

There are better ways to save money than ruining the integrity of of the censuses. I mean hell, Calgary, Airdrie, Edmonton and many other municipalities do their own annual census. Start combining these and you can streamline it nicely.

bcb · 07-21-2010, 06:54 PM

As far as I'm concerned, either keep the long form, or do away with it. What's the point of paying good money to analyze data full of volunteer biases?

MarchHare · 07-21-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

There are better ways to save money than ruining the integrity of of the censuses. I mean hell, Calgary, Airdrie, Edmonton and many other municipalities do their own annual census. Start combining these and you can streamline it nicely.

The really stupid thing is that Harper's plan to make the long form voluntary is going to cost us taxpayers more money since it's now going to be mailed to 33% of the population (up from 20%) and the government is planning a big advertising campaign to encourage people to complete it.

I just don't understand what the CPC is thinking here at all. To whom are they trying to appeal by sacrificing the validity of important census data? Was "not wanting to complete the long census" high on any Canadian's list of issues they want the government to address?

RedHot25 · 07-21-2010, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I just don't understand what the CPC is thinking here at all. To whom are they trying to appeal by sacrificing the validity of important census data? Was "not wanting to complete the long census" high on any Canadian's list of issues they want the government to address?

Makes no sense why in the first place, but now I think they are still going ahead with scrapping it, well, "because everyone is telling us not too". I don't know why otherwise, business groups, faith groups, provinces and territories, their own public servants, etc etc are telling them not to do it...

RedHot25 · 07-21-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Industry Minister Tony Clement told the Globe and Mail that Sheikh had discussed several options for dealing with the transition from a mandatory census to a voluntary survey. Sheikh was "comfortable with those options," Clement said.

...

"(Sheikh is) clearly very unhappy with the government's position to dumb down the accuracy and reliability of the census," Fife told CTV News Channel Wednesday evening. "He's particularly unhappy with the fact that Tony Clement seemed to finger him as the one who supported this when in fact he doesn't."

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykalberta

...

Bunk · 07-21-2010, 07:43 PM

Such a stupid move, but they are too stubborn to admit their mistake and backtrack. There was practically no upside to their decision.

calumniate · 07-22-2010, 03:31 PM

Years and years of trendable census data, used by real estate groups, public and private educational institutions and the freaking government themselves use this information extensively for planning purposes.

The cost of not being able to plan some of these large projects based on reliable census data will greatly outweigh the savings. Some people are really fumed about this, and rightly so. Can't believe harper is still in office.

killer_carlson · 07-22-2010, 03:36 PM

before we get too excited, do we know exactly what is now voluntary?

Ford Prefect · 07-22-2010, 03:41 PM

Good. They can get rid of the rest of the department and the whole census, long and short, as far as I'm concerned. Bloody waste of time and invasion of privacy.

Devils'Advocate · 07-22-2010, 04:06 PM

As an employee of Statistics Canada, I don't like this idea of "get rid of the rest of the department".

Seriously, I can't say much on the subject... even Dr. Sheikh's letter was vague in that much of the discussions are protected. However, I will say that this is about more than short or long census forms and has more to do with the relationship between the agency and the government (whatever government is in power). Historically, we have been seen as being at arms length, thereby providing unbiased, accurate data for the Canadian public, not propaganda for the ruling party. We collect data by the strictest scientific standards... I've sat with the methodologists explain the formula's from which we cannot deviate. We have policies and procedures in place to ensure the reliability of our data, free from interference from political agendas. Or at least we did until this week. So this is about far more than census forms, it's about how we best provide quality service to the Canadian public. And that is by operating based on sound mathematical principles, not political whims.

Rerun · 07-22-2010, 04:16 PM

I had to fill out the long census once. What a waste of my time and clearly an invasion of my privacy.... and if I didn't fill it out I could have been charged... that fact alone really burned my ass.

Glad Harper put the kaibosh on this. Sometimes these government bureaucrats forget who works for who and they get upset with orders they disagree with. So what! Shut up and do your job.

Devils'Advocate · 07-22-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

Glad Harper put the kaibosh on this. Sometimes these government bureaucrats forget who works for who and they get upset with orders they disagree with. So what! Shut up and do your job.

And therein lies the problem that I referred to. We see ourselves working for the good of the Canadian people, NOT for Tony Clement. We should be doing whatever is necessary to provide accurate data for better decision making.

Economists, educators, scholars of all stripe, policy makers at local and provincial levels... all are saying that they need good accurate data to do their jobs right. I would think sharing a bit of information about my life - data 100% fully protected from being disseminated untabulated - in order to provide the information necessary for both the public and private sector to thrive.

Devils'Advocate · 07-22-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

before we get too excited, do we know exactly what is now voluntary?

The short form which 100% of Canadians get was, and still is, mandatory.

The long form which 20% of Canadians got last census was mandatory.

The long form which 33% of Canadians will get this census will be voluntary.

The increase is in hopes that Stats will get the same number of respondents as last census. The problem is oversampling. For example, last census long form asked a lot of questions about transportation to and from work. If we oversample retired people or unemployed people and undersample young families with parents working two jobs, our numbers are meaningless.

HOZ · 07-22-2010, 06:26 PM

A site that has more information on the census. BTW: Join the Jedi Church of Canada while you are at it!

Methanolic · 07-22-2010, 06:49 PM

"The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."

Azure · 07-22-2010, 07:13 PM

Nor does the state have the right to collect so much private information.

Especially considering how many people would have access to it.

Methanolic · 07-22-2010, 07:27 PM

^ I think that's what Trudeau was refering too when he made the (original) statement.

Devils'Advocate · 07-22-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methanolic

"The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."

No wonder there is references to the Tea party brigade. When do we get to "they want this information so they can round up the Japanese during the next World War"?

Azure: Since you are knowledgeable in the area, please tell me how many people have access to your census data, complete with identifier.