Quote:
Originally Posted by Bownesian
Civilian deaths as a percentage of total deaths in this war are not out of line with other conflicts:
WWII - 60-70% civilians
Korea - 75% civilians
Vietnam - 67% civilians
Chechnya - 87% civilians
NATO in Yugoslavia - 50% civilians
NATO in Afghanistan - 28% civilians
IRAQ II - 33% civilians
Battle of Mosul vs ISIS (probably the most similar) - ~50% civilians
For the Hamas attack on Oct 7 - 67% civilians (plus unknown hostage deaths)
For the Israeli counterattack in Gaza:
Hamas' estimate - 67%-100% civilians
Israel's estimate - 50% civilians
US estimate - 60% civilians
Most of the non-Gaza conflicts had units fighting away from civilian centers, which is not the case here.
Because Hamas embeds themselves amongst civilians (a war crime) and launches attacks from those embedded positions (another war crime), at least some part of the civilian death toll is a result of those war crimes. Some of these Hamas-attributable Palestinian civilian deaths are direct (such as a rocket falling short on your own side) and some are indirect (fighting from an apartment block, for instance, which invites inevitable counterattack).
I don't see it as a genocide, just an inevitable result of urban warfare.
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Up for debate, but you’ll find good arguments suggesting genocide was pursued in Chechnya and Vietnam, just to name a couple. I actually don’t think anyone trying to defend Israel’s actions in any way should be mentioning the US’s actions in Vietnam as a counterpoint.
The whole list is rife with very significant examples of crimes against humanity, at very least.
I think calling this inevitable or placing the absolving Israel of any blame or criticism is just turning a blind eye. Even if you disagree with the term “genocide” which is hard to define and hard to get international agreement on in most conflicts where genocidal intent is present, going the opposite direction and shrugging it off would be an even less accepted position.