[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

I don't really understand what you're asking. All I was saying is that I don't agree with the Hamilton hate or people who think he's a bigger problem than brodie because every measurable metric and stat says the opposite.

What I am saying is this:

If underlyings excuse Hamilton's imperfections, why do they not excuse the fact that Brodie is consistently saddled with anchors who consistently post poor underlyings. And yes, I do think they do both of those things. That's my point. Hamilton is a good player, and Brodie is a good player. Giordano is a good player. The three of these guys do not constitute a top four defense, because there are only three of them.

The one thing I've never seen from Brodie is the ability to make his partner better. It seems like he needs someone who compliments him to be successful, instead of being that complimentary partner himself.

Agree to disagree. Brodie is making Hamonic better right now by constantly covering for all the times teams attack the right side of the ice - the results are not there because of just how often teams target Hamonic. He made Stone much better last year. He made Russell much better two seasons ago. He made Engelland much better three seasons ago.

Fact is, Brodie can't make non-NHLers (2017 Wideman, Butler, Jokipakka) into top 4 NHLers. He can't make bottom pair defensemen (Russell, Engelland, Stone, Hamonic) into legitimate top 4 defensemen. But neither can Giordano, neither could Hamilton. Those are unrealistic standards. Giordano couldn't make Wideman work last year either. Hamilton couldn't make Jokipakka or Russell work either.

Brodie makes his partners better - he doesn't work miracles.

Originally Posted by Beatle17

This is the same discussion that everyone has about Bennett. It is always someone else's fault that they suck.

So Bennett hasn't been very good since being separated from the likes of Lazar and Versteeg and Brouwer? He doesn't have 8 points in his last 11 games? He isn't able to generate a certain chemistry with Gaudreau that no one - not even Monahan - has shown.

You're right - it is the same discussion about Brodie that it is with Bennett - because it's the same problem. Too many anchors. Far too many anchors who don't belong on roster if not for management's stubborn adherence to their grit quota.

Brodie is terrible at defense,

So terrible that he was a top pair defenseman on this team for years. So terrible that he leads our team in ice time when Hamilton is more offensive-minded. Very reasonable position to operate around.

it is the reason he was the leading scorer in Junior and why he fell to the 4th round of the draft, no DEFENSE.

What? Brodie had very little offensive production in his draft year. He never "fell" to the 4th round of the draft.

He was directly responsible for 4 of the goals last night because he does not cover anyone in his own end EVER.

Talk about hyperbole.

If Stone and Hamonic both have crappy underlying numbers with Brodie what is the common denominator? Could it be Brodie.

Stone and Hamonic both had crappy underlying numbers before we acquired them. Stone and Hamonic both had crappy underlying numbers playing with guys like Oliver Ekman Larsson, Alex Goligoski, Nick Leddy, and Calvin De Haan. Before Kulak came and saved his season, Stone was also struggling immensely in a sheltered third pair role. There was no evidence coming into this season that either Stone or Hamonic were a solution to Brodie's problems. There was no evidence going into last season or this that Troy Brouwer, Curtis Lazar or Alex Chiasson were appropriate linemates for Sam Bennett - yet the team forced these things and then pinned the blame on the two "star" players. Dennis Wideman couldn't even get a job this year, yet he was Brodie's partner most of last season. Chiasson had to basically sign a PTO to get a 4th line job, and I thought he was one of the best linemates Sam had last year. Brouwer and Lazar are still terrible, yet Bennett got the blame for them.

Quality of Teammate is a huge factor that influences perception. Guys like Brodie and Bennett do not need to be "carried", but that does not mean they should be anchored down by default.