Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
It's funny how we each have our untouchables. Johnny and Brodie are the two I would never trade.
Monahan/Hamilton for Stamkos and Drouin assuming you could speak with Stamkos agent in advance. It's just a pipe dream. And a risky trade for the Flames.
I hate spitballing trades but he about this offer from BT for Drouin:
Any single player on Flames roster except for Gadreau, Monahan, Bennett and the three top D.
Plus they they can pick any 2 prospects they like.
That probably doesn't get it done.
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Monahan/Hamilton for stamkos Drouin?
I'd be willing to do that if stamkos agrees to sign here but only because I think (1.) Monahan will eventually be a 2C on a contending team and (2.) Hamilton likely won't be a number 1 defenceman but a good 2 or a great 3. (3.) I believe stamkos hasn't forgotten how to score and he can/will hit 50 again (4.) Drouin will one day be an all star in this league, you can book it.
But before I go further into this I will say it won't ever ever happen in a million years.
I think teams are offering similar packages, if not more for just stamkos, so there's no way we're getting both for that. Also it would be quite a risk if you consider the questions surrounding stamkos, his play in the playoffs and overall since the leg break. Also depending on how you feel about Drouin it would be a big big risk trading 2 players, who you know what you have and you know they will only improve, in Sean and Dougie, I can only see them improving tbh. Whereas there can be a serious, statistically backed argument made that stamkos has declined since the leg break and st.louis being traded. One could also argue with less stats or data to back their argument, that Drouin has declined, well his stock has certainly taken a hit. Whereas Monahan and Hamilton have literally been constantly improving since draft day, and still are improving. So now we have the rational bits out of the way...
I think organisationally, we are looking good for dmen. I'm betting we get a Hamilton level dman out of one of kylington, andersson, hickey. I also think we've got gio signed long term to be a top pairing dman, and we have Brodie so it's stupid to be paying 3 guys to be top pairing dmen and then rely on Johnny for all of your offence on the other end of the ice.
The questions for me are do you think Brodie is a number 1 dman? HECK YES. Who would you like to play with him on the first line? Giordano.. Can we afford to keep and pay Hamilton as essentially a number 3 dman when we can barely score a goal without Johnny? I guess not.
I would LOVE to keep Monahan. I'd really really like to keep Hamilton as well. But the way I see it we're not short of prospects on defence and I think Bennett is our future 1C (obvs). Why not ship out a good young 30 goal 2 way centre and a good young offensive dman with a big frame and good skating for an elite scoring centre (likely the best goal scorer you can get outside ovie) and Drouin who would instantly become our best 'prospect' leapfrogging kylington and jankowski.
I also disagree that Drouin wouldn't be worth one of Monahan or Hamilton straight up. I don't think it's a case of "if he was worth that much he would be in the NHL with Tampa bay right now". That's not universal logic. You couldn't say the same for a lot of players, who were tweeners and are now stars like tampas diminutive number 9, tyler Johnson is a perfect example of that.
Drouin isn't in the AHL because he's a flop or he forgot how to play. That is a joke, trust me. He's no Gilbert Brule.... He is in the AHL because the team he is on, Tampa, have one of the best rosters in the league up front (stamkos is on the 2nd line), they are underachieving, they were just in the SCF, he is a small player who has A++ offensive ability and vision, but F- in terms of knowing how to play without the puck and outside the offensive zone. He hasn't learned what Johnny has learned, which is how to be a useful and even effective defensive player without being physical or big. Where to be, stick position, sleight of hand, playing your position etc. I'm willing to bet he hasn't had to play defensive hockey in his life and also that he's never ever played in a system or had any system taught to him, outside of power play formations. Tampa also have a GM who supports his coach over his players.
Another point people don't realise is you can't put a player like Drouin on the 3-4th line. It's top 2 lines, with PP minutes or send him down. Just like it is with any other high end offensive player. You don't put them on the 3rd line with meh players and the PK, you cant do that lol. So it was essentially top 6 and PP or bust for Drouin because he can't be used in a bottom 6 role and he needs to be on the PP. What happened is simply this; he wasn't the best player for the top 6. There were other players who could play in the top 6 and help the team win. Since it's obviously not all about offensive skill. You need to do a lot of things to help your team win, especially in the top 6 where you are out there half the game. There are 6 players on that team better, stronger, more experienced, more capable defensively, and still capable of scoring. That's why he is in the AHL.
The notion that Drouin is overrated or sucks because he isn't playing for Tampa is just stupid. I watched him and Mackinnon in their final season in Halifax and it was my opinion that Drouin was far more talented offensively whereas mackinnon was reliant on his elite skating but still had lots of skill. Drouin might be more offensively gifted than Gaudreau - and I'm the biggest Johnny fan boy you can find - I got in a fight with my girlfriend because I cheered for him at the WJC while she was cheering for Canada and I celebrated in her face after gaudreau scored his toe drag goal on Malcolm subban.
Drouin hasn't forgotten how to play hockey, he isn't a kostitsyn who has no passion or effort, he is a young player who ever since pee-wee has probably had no need to play defensively. From the moment he got the puck he basically did what he wanted to, so all he had to do was wait for the puck to be on his stick, even at Halifax. I blame him and his coaches as well before he got to the NHL for not rounding out his game.
Remember when Johnny was glued to the bench because of a few innoportune giveaways and passes that went off people's shins leading to a goal at the other end? Remember when Johnny didn't quite know how or when to use the magic and how or when to turn it off? Drouin does this but 100x more, making unessecary, artistic plays which don't help his team. He is the definition of a confidence player. I am totally sure he will be a star in the NHL - you don't see players like him often, in fact I've never seen a player who at age 17 had the individual offensive skill he had. And I've seen a lot of great players in junior. He needs coaching, help, teaching, a bit more size, etc. He isn't a flop, he's an undersized young player, who wants to succeed, who is passionate about hockey, who never had to learn how to do anything other than score points and break ankles.