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Originally Posted by AR_Six

Speaking as a lawyer, the difference in pay for us is actually rather insane. I.e., as a 7th year call in Vancouver you are making literally 50% of what you are making in Calgary at the same firm (in terms of national firms with offices in both cities and their comparables).

Originally Posted by blankall

Also a lawyer. The difference in pay isn't that extreme. The only difference is there is more opportunity for high end corporate work in Calgary. If you want to spend all day doing O&G transactions, then yes, there is more opportunity in Calgary. Keep in mind, very few lawyers hang onto the corporate ladder into their 7th year in either of Calgary or Vancouver, which makes it a bit of a moot point.

I also think you're extrapolating a few examples of elite oil and gas guys for all lawyers in Calgary. I know many lawyers in Calgary, and the salary differences between them and Vancouver are slim beyond first year, even at larger firms. Also, good luck becoming one of those elite oil and gas guys if you're not born with the right connections.

Like I said before, there are a lot more jobs in the O&G industry in Calgary than Vancouver. If that's your thing, stay in Calgary. Vancouver has no comparable industry to that. Once again, I think Calgary is the outlier here, as oppossed to the norm. There are few cities in the world with an industry like the Alberta O & G industry, and, yes it does generate a lot of work, when things are good.

Originally Posted by AR_Six

I work at one of the larger firms and you're wrong. The payscale is basically set in stone, subject to minor variances for retention and a couple of specialist areas, basically. It's as I said - significantly better in Calgary than in Vancouver. I.e., a 3rd year Calgary associate is making about what a 5th year is in Vancouver, and Calgary has an actual bonus structure. The longer you stick around, the bigger the gap gets.

Originally Posted by blankall

Like I said before, that really only applies to people working at large firms doing high end corporate work.

http://www.zsa.ca/zsa.php?fuseaction=main.pages&id=184

http://www.zsa.ca/zsa.php?fuseaction=main.pages&id=183

I know the person who put this together, and I can tell you it's accurate. With the exception of the large firm and medium/small firms that work in oil and gas, you're looking at a difference of 5-10%. Calgary large firm work is not known for its diversity and involves a lot of oil and gas work. So like I said before, if you want to move to Calgary and make a crap load of money working oil and gas, yes that's a possibility. If you're working in any other field of law besides oil and gas, the rates are comparable, but slightly higher in Calgary. Pay rates in Calgary are slightly higher than anywhere else in Canada though.

Originally Posted by AR_Six

This is an odd classification... As far as I know, only one large firm in Calgary has an "oil and gas" department and even that is a marketing term for "corporate". Everyone else has the same departments as in any other city - litigation, securities, corporate, regulatory, tax, financial services. It's not as if you're in Calgary doing some extremely specific "oil and gas" practice area. Your clients just happen to be companies whose business relates to oil and gas - which in itself is varied enough; from exploration to extraction to midstream to downstream to services. In Vancouver, in contrast, your clients are largely mining companies. There may be slightly more diversity as to the kinds of issues you see but it's still the same practice area in Van as in Calgary. The difference between doing a prospectus for A Calgary O&G company listing on the TSXV isn't that different in reality compared to the equivalent job in Vancouver. And this is just the corporate side; if you're in litigation you see about as much variety as anywhere.

Originally Posted by blankall

If what you're saying is true, you'd expect the numbers across the board to reflect that. Is there more litigation work in Calgary? Are the billing rates different? What is driving this suppossed increase in salary across the board.

A person working in insurance litigation is arbitrarily going to be making twice as much in Calgary than Vancouver despite working comparable hours? And the line between O&G work and non O&G work is not arbitrary. It's a huge industry with a huge amount of billable hours. The larger companies have excessive amounts of money to spend on legal fees that companies in other industries don't. And no, the corporate work is not he same. You're dealing with major government and environmental issues you won't find in other industries.

Originally Posted by AR_Six

The market, I guess. Alberta has had to draw lawyers almost exclusively from U of A and U of C historically, which is a relatively small pool for a legal market (at the big firm level) larger than Vancouver and a second market in Edmonton that certainly dwarfs anything else in B.C. (i.e. Victoria). As you say there is more money flying around in this province. The litigation pay scale is somewhat driven by the corporate side. The causes can be argued about, the result is still the same: if you're working in litigation here you're making considerably more money than your Vancouver counterpart. Again, this is big firm experience; if your argument is you could do as well hanging out a shingle in Van as CGY, that's great but there's no standard to compare to as people's success in that format largely depends on their individual circumstances and ability to generate business.

Yes. My firm does a lot of insurance litigation and the pay scale is about equal to the corporate side scale - that is to say, way way higher than in Vancouver and with a better bonus structure.

Of course it's "not the same". Every particular industry has its idiosyncracies and issues. Mining has its own, forestry has its own (the government and environmental issues in both of those areas are similar in various respects to O&G), manufacturing has its own, aerospace, IT. Why is Oil and Gas special? If I'm a securities lawyer in Toronto vs. Calgary, I'm still helping my clients issue shares / notes / sub receipts / whatever, there may be some differences as to what goes into the prospectus where one's an oil company and the other does something else, but it's the same job and the same legal area.

Lawyers.