[photon]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Oh...I guess I misinterpreted AC's "comics" then.

They all seem to be attacking Intelligent Design or the specific type of creationism that I mentioned, except one which I think is talking about the religious right in the US in general.

I don't disagree and I think you would be surprised to see where I fall in this debate.

Probably not surprised, I can appreciate what you're trying to say, and I try not to read someone's position about something until they state it.

But....very very little has been said in here that would make your statement relative. So in essence that would be arguing against the core belief to start with...at least that's how I read it.

ID at its core is exactly what I described, taking faith and trying to translate it into science for the express purpose of circumventing separation of church and state laws.

And I don't argue against the core belief; to me the core belief is defined as God created life, the universe and everything in it. That's a statement of faith, science doesn't speak to it because it lies outside the realm of science. And that's fine. When that faith is brought into the realm of science and claims are made that ARE testable by science (like the earth being 6000 years old, or life not evolving from a common ancestor), and when those claims are made without evidence with no rigor and held up to be equivalent to science. That's wrong and encourages magical thinking.

Except that...it isnt being taught to our children. At least not that I can tell and unless parents are sending their kids to private schools that teach such a curriculum, I doubt it will ever be anything more than what it is now. A beleif system perpetrated by some and ridiculed by others.

It isn't now, despite repeated attempts to get it into the education system, and you can bet it won't stop, so it has to be defended against. Plus there's all the adults who have moved beyond the education system, to me it's worthwhile to try to educate them as well.

Hmmm...I guess we will agree to disagree on this. But I doubt that the belittling of a specific religion and some of their customs to those who claim to believe that Creationism is on par with Evolution would be the same.

Maybe and maybe not, but people's actions on any side of any fence aren't usually dictated by how to maximize the conversion rate or whatever; people are people and everyone deals with things and communicates in different ways.

Those comics, while they probably won't change anyone's mind, hopefully get some people to think about things a little bit. Or just make them laugh I guess.

Or Afghanistan, or Iran, or a plethora of other countries. Sorta my point above.

True enough I guess, I see what you mean.

there was no insult whatsoever Photon...come on man. It was just pointing out how others can disagree and still be allowed to voice such an opinion without the nonsense that I see in this thread. No more and no less.

Alright, my apologies, I read "I think I'm still allowed to do that" as implying I'm trying to stifle opinions.

My point is that I think you are not seeing it from the other side...or I may be wrong and am misinterpreting it all.

But I have a feeling if someone posted a comic suggesting something that completely denounced a specific group, it wouldnt be removed pronto. Thats what some of those things ^^^ are doing, and no its not just in hyperbole, its a direct attack on a belief system that, although I disagree with, is something that should be allowed to be voiced/discussed etc.

Since I've been on both sides I think I can see things from both sides, but of course everyone thinks they can even if they can't

Even if it is attacking a belief system, to me beliefs are fair game for attack, though criticize is maybe a better word. Criticizing a belief system isn't the same as saying that that belief system should be eliminated. Beliefs are something voluntary, unlike race or gender, and should be scrutinized.

Heck beliefs scrutinize and attack themselves all the time; otherwise the church would still support slavery and be against women's rights.

And in my mind anyway, all this discussion isn't about the belief that God created it all, it's about the methodology, about how God did it all, specific claims about the age of the earth and such.