Apparently Iginla sucks......

[J epworth]

http://www.examiner.com/x-25609-Calgary-Flames-Examiner~y2010m2d19-Iginla-ineffective-as-Canada-barely-squish-the-Swiss

I still haven't found one article that is criticizing Babcock for is terrible coaching, yet they are just saying that Igina's legs are a year older than his body apparently, and since he didn't get six shots on net he played bad.

[GreenLantern]

Not sure if I have ever heard of this writer before.. I don't read a lot of articles but who is he?


Oh ya and he is totally right, Iginla sucks etc.. etc.. don't play him, keep him benched etc.. etc.. piss him off real good and keep him rested/healthy.. etc.. etc..

[burn_this_city]

What a terrible article.
No mention of the headshot.

[CaptainCrunch]

That fata$$ wouldn't know effective hockey if it ran him over in the crease.

[burn_baby_burn]

You can't argue about his play slipping this season with the Flames. Outside of November.

[J epworth]

Here's another that says basically the same thing, just this time useless vancouver media

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Babcock+sends+Team+Canada+message+taking+ineffecti ve+Iginla+line/2585014/story.html

[CokeMachineGlow]

was the article wrong? has iginla not done the same thing here in clagary for entire stretches of games? i love our captain but anyone who thinks this is iginla from 06 or before is kidding themselves

[Flame19,289]

These are quotes from an NHL.com article (http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=517953) after the game against Norway, but I think they are worth pointing out after the game against the Swiss...

Iginla:
"Part of playing for Team Canada is being ready to do whatever role is asked, whether it's being on an energy line or whether it's a chance to be on the PP," Iginla said diplomatically. "You get to play in all different combinations and guys you admire around the League. I imagine the lines will still change a lot, but we're ready as a group for whatever Mike decides."

Babcock:
Babcock said he told Iginla before the game that he wants him to use his size as an asset. He didn't need it on his goals, but he otherwise used his size, as did Nash. Crosby gets freed up to make plays when he's got such big bodies as linemates.

"We need (Iginla) to be a physical presence for us, to be really hard to play against," Babcock said. "He doesn't need to score to help us, but obviously he did tonight. But, that's what we're looking for..."

"They're all high-end guys, but they're used to playing 21 minutes and if you look down and they have 13 next to their name or 14, it's hard for them," Babcock said. "Our group has to understand that they are all going to play, but we have to get the tempo way higher."

[AltaGuy]

Here's another that says basically the same thing, just this time useless vancouver media

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Babcock+sends+Team+Canada+message+taking+ineffecti ve+Iginla+line/2585014/story.html

Thing that bothers me there: "his lack of performance". Really? Where was that?

I definitely didn't see Iggy playing worse (nor better) than most of the rest of the team. And he definitely did some positive things too.

[tripin_billie]

Oh, about the tag for this thread, "useless Toronto media"

Well...

From the author's bio:

James Duplacey is the author of over 50 books on sport and culture... and currently resides in Calgary, Alberta. You can reach him at...

So, even though he seems out to lunch on this one, he isn't the Toronto media specter that so many Calgarians think is out to get them.

[mykalberta]

Apparently he has a twitter account. FlamesPuck.

I say we spam the shat out of him. I would even sign into twitter for this.

[bubbsy]

what an idiot.

nuff said.

[nwflamesfan]

Is this the same guy? Is that a pic of him as the friendly giant?

http://www.jacketflap.com/profile.asp?member=JJHPAA

[sa226]

These are quotes from an NHL.com article (http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=517953) after the game against Norway, but I think they are worth pointing out after the game against the Swiss...

Iginla:


Babcock:



Its interesting how things can be taken out of context. Its still really difficult to tell what their intentions are but from Babcock's quote, its almost like he was complementing Iginla.

He says the team doesn't need Iginla to score in order to help the team. Which can mean that he can help the team in many other ways not just scoring.

On the other hand you have a player like Heatly, his job is to score goals, because he can't really do anything else.

I think Iginla and Babcock need to get on the same page. I think Babcock wants Iginla to be the Holmstrom to Crosbys and Nashs, Datsyuk and Zetterberg. He wants Iginla to play a certain way regardless of what line he was playing. Maybe Babcocks opinion was that Iginla change the way he played once he played with Crosby (I do remember one shift last night where Iginla left the zone too early, Babcock probably didn't like that)

So Instead of leaving Iginla up there he replaced him with players he felt were going to do the job asked of them (Toews, Bergeron, Richards)

Even though I understand the reasoning, Babcock needs to realize this isn't Holmstrom, Franzen, Morrow or whoever. This is Jarome Iginla, he is first and formost a power forward, but he can do so much more, rather than just creat space for Sidney Crosby. He has made a heck of a living carrying a team with no one to create space for him.

After thinking about it I am less confused but still pissed off, because Iginla deserves more than he is getting.

Based on the reasoning above, I do believe Iginla will get a chance again to be an impact player, and if Iginla's career is any indication he won't waste it and Team Canada will hopefully be better for it.

If I am completely wrong and Iginla barely gets a sniff the rest of the tourney, then the brass is off their rocker putting the hopes of the country in the hands of Perry, Nash, Staal and Marleau ahead of Iginla

[redforever]

Time in and time out, Iggy himself sets the bar and shows how to deal with situations diplomatically, instead of displaying bipolar behaviour.

That is an asset that would benefit each and everyone of us.

[kirant]

"We need (Iginla) to be a physical presence for us, to be really hard to play against," Babcock said. "He doesn't need to score to help us, but obviously he did tonight. But, that's what we're looking for..."
I'm not entirely sure how replacing Iginla with Toews did anything to improve this...

[Smell My Finger]

One thing that is certain if Canada were to have lost that shoot out. Nobody could put even 1% of blame on Iginla.
3 shifts in the 2nd 1 shift in the 3rd. No shifts in OT.
What I really don't get by Babcocks stupidity is Iginla was not on the ice for any of the GA. Iginla did not have any bad turnovers.
Bergeron or Toews created no scoring chances for Crosby or Nash. So why did he keep forcing that Jokinen line combo on Crosby and Nash.
B Sutter is that you? Please remove the rubber Babcock mask:confused:

[the_professsor]

If I am completely wrong and Iginla barely gets a sniff the rest of the tourney, then the brass is off their rocker putting the hopes of the country in the hands of Perry, Nash, Staal and Marleau ahead of Iginla

The players you listed above are either just as good (i.e Marleau) or better (Nash) than Iginla. I personally think Staal and Perry are better too but that's arguable.

Iginla does deserve a bit more ice time, but let's not kid ourselves, he isn't as elite as he was 3 years ago

[Rifleman]

The defence in that Swiss game was horrible. Definitely not what I was expecting from that group. Whether it was due to the forwards not coming back far enough and expecting only a good long stretch pass, or the Swiss players playing a fast, tenacious forecheck, or the collective group just shatting the bed all at once, I'll never know, but the D yesterday made me think they should've went with Mark Giordano as their 6th.

As for the forwards, I think they played alright.

[CGY12]

The players you listed above are either just as good (i.e Marleau) or better (Nash) than Iginla. I personally think Staal and Perry are better too but that's arguable.

Iginla does deserve a bit more ice time, but let's not kid ourselves, he isn't as elite as he was 3 years ago

Yea he isn't elite finishing 8th in league scoring last year and 3rd the year before. Yes we get it he isn't having a dominant year but he has proven a hell of a lot more than both Marleau and Nash and if you even WATCHED the game last night you would realize his benching was complete BS. He sat on the bench while the Perry- Staal - Getzlaf line went out there and continued to turn the puck over.

[bubbsy]

The players you listed above are either just as good (i.e Marleau) or better (Nash) than Iginla. I personally think Staal and Perry are better too but that's arguable.

Iginla does deserve a bit more ice time, but let's not kid ourselves, he isn't as elite as he was 3 years ago

Call me naive, but i'll hold off on the Nash/staal/perry/marleau are better statement until:

a) any of those players put up more points/goals than Iginla (see Nash/staal/perry)

b) any of those players put up more points than iginla playing with less skilled linemates (see marleau)

[Rerun]

Iginla doesn't suck but he's not the player he once was. Anybody who isn't wearing rose colored glasses can see this.

Iggy isn't an elite player anymore and if you take into account the way he's played in 3 of the 4 months of this season (November excluded), he's lucky he made it on to the team.

If Yzerman had been choosing the team in January instead of November, I doubt Iggy would have made it.

[Flashpoint]

I'm not entirely sure how replacing Iginla with Toews did anything to improve this...

Babcock coaches a 10th place team. I wouldn't put a ton of stock in his hockey opinions.

[looooob]

Iginla doesn't suck but he's not the player he once was. Anybody who isn't wearing rose colored glasses can see this.

.of course he's not the player he was at 24. has he been demonstrably worse than many of the other guys through 2 games?

I know scoring 3 against Norway is not an incredible feat, but moving him up from the 4th line got the ball rolling in game one...the team is flat in game 2 and its' him that's demoted, the results don't change

do other players get held accountable also? or just the oldest forward and the youngest D? that will be interesting to monitor going forward

[mikey_the_redneck]

Call me naive, but i'll hold off on the Nash/staal/perry/marleau are better statement until:

a) any of those players put up more points/goals than Iginla (see Nash/staal/perry)

b) any of those players put up more points than iginla playing with less skilled linemates (see marleau)

Staal has had a 100 point season.........

[the_professsor]

Yea he isn't elite finishing 8th in league scoring last year and 3rd the year before. Yes we get it he isn't having a dominant year but he has proven a hell of a lot more than both Marleau and Nash and if you even WATCHED the game last night you would realize his benching was complete BS. He sat on the bench while the Perry- Staal - Getzlaf line went out there and continued to turn the puck over.

ya i WATCHED the game, thanks for the caps. Where you finished in scoring the last 2 years in the nhl doesn't dictate olympic playing time. 12 minutes of ice and zero shots, plus not coming back low enough to support the D on breakouts might dictate olympic playing time

i trust Babcock more than myself or any other fan to pick the right lines for Canada

[CGY12]

Iginla doesn't suck but he's not the player he once was. Anybody who isn't wearing rose colored glasses can see this.

Iggy isn't an elite player anymore and if you take into account the way he's played in 3 of the 4 months of this season (November excluded), he's lucky he made it on to the team.

If Yzerman had been choosing the team in January instead of November, I doubt Iggy would have made it.

Is Nash an elite player? If Iggy doesn't deserve to be on this team based on this year Nash sure as hell doesn't either and yes I've watched him a lot this year.

[looooob]

Staal has had a 100 point season.........I think what he was getting at (and I could be wrong) was in reference to this season. the prevailing wisdom seems to be that Iginla used to be good but now he sucks unlike the uber talented young guys that were mentioned. all of whom have comparable (or nearly identical) offensive numbers to Iginla this year

[bubbsy]

Is Nash an elite player? If Iggy doesn't deserve to be on this team based on this year Nash sure as hell doesn't either and yes I've watched him a lot this year.


in that case, staal and even neidermayer are question marks to make the team.

[CGY12]

ya i WATCHED the game, thanks for the caps. Where you finished in scoring the last 2 years in the nhl doesn't dictate olympic playing time. 12 minutes of ice and zero shots, plus not coming back low enough to support the D on breakouts might dictate olympic playing time

i trust Babcock more than myself or any other fan to pick the right lines for Canada

I never said where you finished in scoring the last 2 years dictates how much playing time you get in the olympics. You made a FALSE statement that Iggy hasn't been elite in 3 years, I was simply proving you wrong, get it?

As for last nights game, Iggy wasn't great but he wasn't bad just like his linemates. Just because the guy doesn't get a shot doesn't mean he is playing poorly. He set up Crosby and was fine in his own end last night. You can trust Babcock all you want, fact is they just beat a team they are vastly better than in shootout and the blame for that performance is shouldered by everybody INCLUDING Babcock.

[CGY12]

in that case, staal and even neidermayer are question marks to make the team.

Yup and Staal has been BRUTAL up to this point against 2 pretty average teams. Some people on here saying " well who cares if Iggy scored 3 against Norway, it was NORWAY!", while Staal has turned up the suck level another notch in both games against average opponents yet he is seeing more ice time. :ph34r:

[Diverce]

was the article wrong? has iginla not done the same thing here in clagary for entire stretches of games? i love our captain but anyone who thinks this is iginla from 06 or before is kidding themselves


The article was wrong, yeah Bab the took him off the top line.... but the times Iginla was out there on the 4th line the energy picked up and then the pace dropped once he came off the ice.... it's easy to pick on him because like Crosby, Iginla is one of the most recognizable player, everyone else looks the same. So if Crosby or Iginla don't play 20 mins your going to notice.

it's not fair to compare any player to what they were 4 years ago, no one is the same as they were 4 years ago. The difference this year is that he has no space. The years after the lockout minus these last 2 years he's had playmakers like Huselius and Tanguay. This year, once he touches the puck he has 2 or 3 players hanging on him, not a lot of players that I know of can score consistently with 2 or 3 players hanging on them because a lot of them have other options to pass too, or are a constant threat to score.... Iginla has no other option, and teams know this.... shut down Iginla, shut down the Flames.

Before Stajan and Hagman joined the club it was easy to design a defense to play the Flames. When Iginla is out, double and triple team him, if Boyd or Glencross make a play so be it, when he's off clog the shooting lanes cause it's going back to the point.

But being the great leader he is, for Canada he'll do what's best for the team, and what he's asked to do. When he comes back, expect a big March from Iggy and the Flames :)

[CokeMachineGlow]

it's not fair to compare any player to what they were 4 years ago, no one is the same as they were 4 years ago. The difference this year is that he has no space. The years after the lockout minus these last 2 years he's had playmakers like Huselius and Tanguay. This year, once he touches the puck he has 2 or 3 players hanging on him, not a lot of players that I know of can score consistently with 2 or 3 players hanging on them because a lot of them have other options to pass too, or are a constant threat to score.... Iginla has no other option, and teams know this.... shut down Iginla, shut down the Flames.

Before Stajan and Hagman joined the club it was easy to design a defense to play the Flames. When Iginla is out, double and triple team him, if Boyd or Glencross make a play so be it, when he's off clog the shooting lanes cause it's going back to the point.



All excuses. If he's an elite player he should get it done no matter what. Jokinen got it done in Florida surrounded by a crap team, you dont think players tee'd off on him? How about Cammelleri in LA? There's lots of examples of great players on a bad team achieving greatly... this double team nonsense is just that.. nonsense

[Rerun]

I've always believed that the definition of a great or elite player is a player who by his very presence, makes his team mates better.

Can we say that of Iginla any more?

[the_professsor]

I never said where you finished in scoring the last 2 years dictates how much playing time you get in the olympics. You made a FALSE statement that Iggy hasn't been elite in 3 years, I was simply proving you wrong, get it?

As for last nights game, Iggy wasn't great but he wasn't bad just like his linemates. Just because the guy doesn't get a shot doesn't mean he is playing poorly. He set up Crosby and was fine in his own end last night. You can trust Babcock all you want, fact is they just beat a team they are vastly better than in shootout and the blame for that performance is shouldered by everybody INCLUDING Babcock.

ya i agree that everyones to blame, the reason i got into this thread was because some people (not necessarily you) are hating on babcock, thinking if we throw iginla on the first line we would've won 5-2.

And you didn't prove me wrong at all, you can dig up all the stats you want, iggy used to dominate hockey games, he doesn't anymore. Still a great player, but not the same.

[Kaine]

All excuses. If he's an elite player he should get it done no matter what. Jokinen got it done in Florida surrounded by a crap team, you dont think players tee'd off on him? How about Cammelleri in LA? There's lots of examples of great players on a bad team achieving greatly... this double team nonsense is just that.. nonsense

Ohhhhh man, anyone want a crack at this?

Don't really know what your driving at, Iggy has put up far, far more points than the players you have mentioned all the while being covered (see consistent double/triple teamed) many times in the past decade. Really what are you going on about?

He was and in many peoples opinions continues to be an elite player, I would say consistently finishing top 10 in the league in goals despite having little help from his line mates is getting it done, or does one have to be Ovie to "get it done"? Food for thought, Iggy had 3 goals in NINE minutes of ice time last game, far below the average ice time of Canadian forwards. Guess he didn't get it done tho, he's not elite :rolleyes:

I've always believed that the definition of a great or elite player is a player who by his very presence, makes his team mates better.

Can we say that of Iginla any more?

Would the Flames look the same without Iggy? Would the top line have looked as good a few nights ago with 0 goals rather than the 3 Iggy potted? Crosby has looked average at best without Iggy on his line and Nash hasn't done much of anything regardless other than use his body and not create any real threat offensively.

Yes I think most people would say Iggy is still a game changer.

[CGY12]

I never said they would have won 5-2 if Iggy was kept on the first line and I don't think that's what anybody on here is saying. People were frustrated because it wasn't like Iggy was playing poorly and the top line wasn't getting any chances, yet some how Iggy found himself stapled to the bench. Guys like Niedermayer, Pronger, Staal, Getzlaf and Perry were playing awful yet they were seeing a regular shift. The Getzlaf was non existent the entire night. This is a team full of capable players that can get the job done and I realize that but I just want to see every player held to the same amount of accountability.

[Young-Sneezy]

One thing that is certain if Canada were to have lost that shoot out. Nobody could put even 1% of blame on Iginla.


...but we did win..

therefore, its time for everyone to media-jerk-off syd the kid like its the second coming of Christ.

that means all the other players have to get ready for his preverbal bust directly into their eyes... Re: Iggy sucks

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

they should've benched Crosby for not shooting when Iggy set him up all alone in front of the net. instead he dekes and curls behind the net, much like Shaun Donovan may have done. hahhaa.

[Chump]

Rick Nash 28 29 57 -8

Jarome Iginla 27 30 57 +4

The guys have nearly identical stats this year and Iginla has proven much more over his career yet Nash is an elite player and a lock for the top line while Iginila is a non-elite and borderline team Cananda player.

I just don't see it and that is not mentioning their play in the tournament to date and Ignila's past olympic performances.

[Mayer]

Babcock coaches a 10th place team. I wouldn't put a ton of stock in his hockey opinions.

That isn't serious, is it?


I have to say, after reading that article, I like Iginla more.

"There's a lot of line combinations for Mike [coach Babcock] and I'll be ready for whatever he calls."

He may not be what he used to but he can play on my team any day.

[Kaine]

That isn't serious, is it?


I have to say, after reading that article, I like Iginla more.



He may not be what he used to but he can play on my team any day.

That's Iggy for ya, regardless of what he is being dealt he will be there with 100% effort and a big grin on his face, a true ambassador to the game.

In situations like this I almost wish he would lose it and tell them all where to go, then again I'm a bit of a... well never mind ;)

[Smell My Finger]

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s250/Juldust/TheLine1IggyHulk.jpg

[Fry]

It sure does look like Babcock is treating Iginla like his personal whipping boy, from hero to zero.

Crosby and Nash equally sucked as much as Iginla but stayed out there. Toews comes in, does absolutely nothing and stays up there. Not saying to keep Iggy there but it your going to bench ineffective players then heatly would have a busy night. Really should have thought about Crosby and Heatly. I know Marleau scored but was he ever invisible, atleast you noticed Thorton turning the puck over consistently.

All homerism aside, NOBODY stepped up after the Swiss tied it up. Would Iginla made a difference, I doubt it the way the team was playing but since he was so quick to change Iginla why stick with others that aren't working? Why give the ducks so much time? Why did Nash play the game, looked like he thought it was figure skating, dipsy-doodling and losing the puck.

Feel for Doughty, since he was molested at the blue line and Marty let in a goal he should of had. It was Doughty's fault but Pronger and Niedimeyer screwed up way more than the kid did and munched the mins. What happened with Seabrook?

Personally I don't care if Canada wins or not but if team Canada loses against US and Iggy gets 3min of ice while Toews, Getzlaf, Perry and Staal are out there non-stop it would be the biggest coaching blunder since Crawford/Gretzky.

[robocop]

it's funny how much the coaches try to control the players without ever giving the players a chance to adapt to situations on their own and come up with their own plays. Babcock can go to hell for not putting Iggy on with Crosby and letting them go to town, these are two of the most talented hockey players in the world and he doesn't let them win by being creative and aggressive. Sometimes coaches lose sight of things and take a stranglehold on the team and take the competitive edge out of the players because they get punished for not adhering to strict guidelines on how to play. Sorry Babcock, but I think if you give them atleast some credit they will be able to play on a little heart and desire and win as opposed to ting all over them for not doing exactly what you say.

[minnow]

These are quotes from an NHL.com article (http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=517953) after the game against Norway, but I think they are worth pointing out after the game against the Swiss...

Iginla:


Babcock:
When I read the quote from Bubcock about Iginla using his size, I thought it was pretty funny. He's a big enough guy, but not a monster, 6'1, 205/7 lbs. It's not like he's Nash or Getz or Pronger. He's always played "bigger" though.

[minnow]

That's Iggy for ya, regardless of what he is being dealt he will be there with 100% effort and a big grin on his face, a true ambassador to the game.

In situations like this I almost wish he would lose it and tell them all where to go, then again I'm a bit of a... well never mind ;)
I hope Iggy (after he retires) writes a book, detailing all the assinine things said and done to him throughout his career. It'd make good reading. Sometimes he almost seems to be too much of a team player, always smoothing things over, settling the press down, saying the coach is right, etc. It ticks me OFF !

[Iggy Snipe]

What a joke article. All it did was beak Iginla. they obviously forgot to mention Iginla did not get the chance the play a lot, because Babcock chose NOT to play Iginla. He was not getting any icetime before he got hit either. Or against Norway. He still scored 3 goals though, and looked great with Crosby as he set Crosby up twice for two scoring chances then was promptly sat for most of the game. Then Crosby did NOTHING all game, until he was given TWO chances to score in the shoot-out and was called the hero which is not true. Brodeur should have been called the hero was stopping every shooter. Whatever, Iginla is going to kick ass whenhe comes back to Calgary and win us a cup, and Babcock will be fired as head coach of Canada after once again not getting a medal.

[d_phaneuf]

They just had a live look in on the Canada practice at the intermission of the slovakia/latvia game

Richards is with Crosby and Nash now

Iginla is on the 4th line with Toews and Morrow, and Iginla is being subbed in and out with Bergeron

[Machiavelli]

They just had a live look in on the Canada practice at the intermission of the slovakia/latvia game

Richards is with Crosby and Nash now

Iginla is on the 4th line with Toews and Morrow, and Iginla is being subbed in and out with Bergeron

That is freaking asinine. Not even good enough to solidify a spot on the fourth line?

LOL.

[Jesse834]

They just had a live look in on the Canada practice at the intermission of the slovakia/latvia game

Richards is with Crosby and Nash now

Iginla is on the 4th line with Toews and Morrow, and Iginla is being subbed in and out with Bergeron


I'm scratching my head over these changes. Babcock is a bloody idiot!

[CGY12]

They just had a live look in on the Canada practice at the intermission of the slovakia/latvia game

Richards is with Crosby and Nash now

Iginla is on the 4th line with Toews and Morrow, and Iginla is being subbed in and out with Bergeron

LOOOOOOOOOOL

It has got to the point where I'm not even mad anymore just dumbfounded. A monkey could do a better job at coaching this team.

[Jesse834]

I typed Mike Babcock is an idiot in Google and this came up.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o266/youropeen/wings-coach-mike-babcock.png

[Puddy27]

This whole situation really just sucks for me. I was really excited about the prospects of watching such a big event in Canada and now I am some kind of soured.

I'm am torn because I find it really hard to get behind some of the choices being made by the coaching staff. It actually started before that when the team was picked.

I mean most of us know Regehr was not even close to making this team. Phaneuf played decent enough I think to garner more consideration but was on the bubble regardless and inevitably wasn't picked (whatever). Bouwmeester is having an off year offensively, but has been mostly solid defensively...that's pretty obvious. Who isn't having a bad offensive year on the Flames for the most part?

I don't think any of those guys would really look much worse than Neidermayer who is starting to play like he looks...old.

Then to see one of the most respected players in the entire league, singled out, it really makes me hate the team. Not that Iginla is the answer as most here have said, but he certianly has been no worse than most and to make him a bubble player is borderline insane imo.

* For the record, I hope they win gold and dominate the rest of the way...I am just finding it hard to get that into it. I can't wait for Flames hockey again.

I know, I know, take of my Flames blinders blah blah blah lol.

Anywho, Go Canada Go!

[Reign of Fire]

How come no one is blaming Pronger for that game...he clearly got pissed at the swiss for hitting him and went after him to hit him in the corner...leaving his side wide open, and the swiss ended up scoring and tied the game...I didn't see Babcock bench Pronger after that mistake...Just get the feeling that this coach may not like Iggy as much, but maybe thats just me...

[Jesse834]

How is Ryan Getzlaf not benched? He has looked like really slow out on the ice.

[Ren]

This whole thing is just stupid. WTF has Rick Nash ever done that makes him so untouchable on that line? Furthermore, what is Bob Mckenzie smoking that would give him cause to say that Nash and Crosby have more chemistry than Iginla and Crosby and therefore moving Iggy to the 4th line makes sense? Remind me again which of these 3 guys has the hat trick, Bob? Hell, which of these 3 guys has any goals at all?

Nash gets plenty of PK time in Columbus and is far more of a grinder than Iggy is. I just don't get why Iginla is getting such a short leash when guys who haven't shown anything at all like Staal and Toews are given all sorts of opportunities. Furthermore, if this is just about playing your best players then will somebody please explain why Niedermayer is getting so much ice time?

[OILFAN #81]

As diane_phaneuf mentioned a few posts earlier, Iginla could be the 13th forward tomorrow.

They showed practice and had some interviews on CNBC and these are the lines they went with today and anticipate for tomorrow:

Richards-Crosby-Nash
Marleau-Thornton-Heatley
Staal-Getzlaf-Perry
Morrow-Toews-Bergeron
Iginla

Here is an article that shows the first 3 lines for tomorrow's games:

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/hockey/news/newsid=47917.html#richards+join+crosby+canadas+lin e

[CGY12]

Iginla HAS to be hurt. Peter Maher said ealier today he thinks Iggy has a concussion. If this isn't the case Babcock could possibly be the dumbest person alive.

[Mitt31]

Nice reading the comments.... but i see this in one of two ways and i'm sure 99% of the Flames faithfull will agree.

Situation #1 - Iginla got injured and Babs is making sure he isnt going to get hurt any worse incase he can play in the gold medal game.

Situation #2 - Babs doesnt want Iggy to get hot and score 15 goals during the games which would result in him staying on fire during the final stretch of the regular season.

If Iggy gets hot then the Flames dominate and that leaves the wings one less team they can beat for the playoff spots.



My Hope - Situation #2 and Iggy scores every game while playing just 4 minutes to shove it down their throats and comes out of this scorching hot anyways :)

[Machiavelli]

^ There is an intrinsic conflict of interest here but Babcock doesn't seem to have a problem with Getzlaf and Perry, whose Ducks are also battling the Wings for a playoff spot.

I'm not really sure what to think right now; I guess the coaches are seeing something that most of us aren't.

[Igottago]

Iginla HAS to be hurt. Peter Maher said ealier today he thinks Iggy has a concussion. If this isn't the case Babcock could possibly be the dumbest person alive.

I think this is the closest thing to the truth. Iggy didn't look right after the hit, I personally believe he was/is hurt.

We can thank the player that made that idiotic suicide pass for this...I think it was Weber?

[Henry Fool]

Babcock has had his chance. It won't be long before the Crocodile performs a coup d'etat and establishes the Lemaire junta.

Sounds like maybe Babcock expects Iginla to be a type of player he hasn't been for a few years now. Ice time can also be a huge problem when you have an all-star caliber team. Everyone's used to playing over 20 minutes a game.

[sa226]

Iginla HAS to be hurt. Peter Maher said ealier today he thinks Iggy has a concussion. If this isn't the case Babcock could possibly be the dumbest person alive.


There is no way he has a concussion. If he did he wouldn't be dressing. You don't take chances with concussions.

I don't really think he is injured either because both Iginla and Babcock deinied that he was.

I just think they have lost their marbles.

I keep hoping that there is going to be some great retribution story where Iginla proves them all wrong and leads this team to a gold medal.......

But alas I think the only retribution we will see for Iginla was that Norway game where every had him penciled in on the fourth line but he storms out scoring a Hat Trick. That was great I was fist pumping with Flames pride.

and after all of that he still gets the shaft.

[CGY12]

while Nash continues the free ride...

[Huntingwhale]

He may not be what he used to but he can play on my team any day.
Agreed. I will take a "4th line role player Iginla" over any 4th liner any day of the week. Just goes to show the depth of team Canada in Jarmoe is on the 4th line.

[Ark2]

So Jarome is the 13th forward now? What on earth does this guy have to do? The team looks sluggish playing Norway, getting few offensive chances and not really generating much in the way of pressure. Jarome comes in, scores a goal that sparks the rest of the team and ends up finishing the game with a hattrick (something that no other Canadian player has done in the Olympics since 1988). Babcock says that it's not Jarome's job to score goals. Fine. He gets put on the fourth line in the third period against the Swiss, where he throws some hits, cycles the puck and altogether puts up a strong gritty performance and is then promptly benched. Babcock even went so far after the game to say that Jarome looked sluggish, yet he feels that Bergeron has "been a good player for us". What is going on? I feel like this is an episode of the Twilight Zone and the coaching staff are just rewarding crappy performances while blaming Iggy for their shortcomings.

[Hammertime]

I would very much like Iginla to prove that he can conquer a little adversity and rise to the challenge.

Unfortunately, the past few seasons lead me to believe that this will not fire him up.

[Ark2]

I would very much like Iginla to prove that he can conquer a little adversity and rise to the challenge.

Unfortunately, the past few seasons lead me to believe that this will not fire him up.

Not sure how you can rise up when you're the 13th forward and likely to get no ice time.

[CGY12]

I would very much like Iginla to prove that he can conquer a little adversity and rise to the challenge.

Unfortunately, the past few seasons lead me to believe that this will not fire him up.

This is based on what? Couple seasons ago he was 3rd in league scoring (50 goals) and scored 9 pts in a 7 game series against a way better team. Last year he recorded 89 pts good for 8th and had a bit of a disappointing playoffs but they just lost out to a better team. It takes a TEAM to win in the playoffs. Annoying people continue to take shots at the guy without taking a look at the numbers.

[Caged Great]

The reason why Team Canada will fail is having crappy defensive players on the 4th line. I can fully understand having 3 scoring lines, but you also need players that are specifically tailored to the defensive side of things.

Look at 02, they had Draper and Maltby out there shutting down the other team's best players. If they were to have had say Cleary and say Langkow, or some other defensively talented player on the 4th line with Morrow then they might have a chance, but as I see it now, the top lines of the opposing teams are going to have their way with Canada eventually, and while the scoring depth helps, it only matters if the competition doesn't have the same amount of talent.

I'm hoping Iginla is alright, but he really is not suited at all for 4th line duty. I mean he's one of the worst forwards on Calgary defensively.

Here's hoping that Canada proves me wrong, and that Iggy gets more ice time tomorrow.

[Stocky]

The players you listed above are either just as good (i.e Marleau) or better (Nash) than Iginla. I personally think Staal and Perry are better too but that's arguable.

Iginla does deserve a bit more ice time, but let's not kid ourselves, he isn't as elite as he was 3 years ago

No, but four years ago Iggy only had 67 points. The year he led us to the Cup-in his prime-he had 73 points, which he is on pace for this year.

I would agree that Jarome is not as elite as he was three years ago. But he is as elite as he was four years ago...even a little eliter. Just because he is a year older and having an off year, doesn't mean it is age related; it has happened in his prime as well. Jarome is eniginlamatic.

[the-rasta-masta]

Babcock is smarter than you are all giving him credit for. I think he is playing head games with Iggy, knowing it will fire him up. I bet you Iginla will come out and play his best game of the year today.

[flames_1987]

Babcock is smarter than you are all giving him credit for. I think he is playing head games with Iggy, knowing it will fire him up. I bet you Iginla will come out and play his best game of the year today.

That will be tough to do with just over 7 minutes of ice time

[Ark2]

Babcock is smarter than you are all giving him credit for. I think he is playing head games with Iggy, knowing it will fire him up. I bet you Iginla will come out and play his best game of the year today.

He isn't playing head games with Jarome. You don't demoralize a player that you barely know on the off chance that you think it could fire him up. This is the most important game of the round robin for Canada, and it looks like Iginla is poised to be the 13th forward. For whatever reason, Babcock does not think that Canada needs Jarome to win.

[GirlySports]

This is how the team was constructed. This was evident when watching the Hockey Powers behind the scenes show. Iginla is the 4th line guy or 13th forward.
That's why Bergeron was picked to play on Crosby's right wing, cause Iginla isn't good enough.

I seriously wanted to kill Yzerman after I watched that show.

[FanIn80]

I don't know about anyone else, but these Olympics are starting to leave a real sour taste in my mouth. I know Iggy wouldn't agree, but I would rather just not even have him there at all then to see him get disrespected like this.

[GirlySports]

I don't know about anyone else, but these Olympics are starting to leave a real sour taste in my mouth. I know Iggy wouldn't agree, but I would rather just not even have him there at all then to see him get disrespected like this.

If I was Iginla and Canada selected me to play on the 4th line. I would respectfully decline and stay home. Give my spot to a kid.

[Ark2]

If Canada comes up short, then I think the whole Team Canada brass need to be axed. These guys have made some very unconventional decisions, and if they don't pay off, heads need to roll. No more Yzerman, Babcock, Holland and especially no more Lowe. How that man is still anywhere near anything hockey related is beyond me.

[burning_acid1]

I think this is the closest thing to the truth. Iggy didn't look right after the hit, I personally believe he was/is hurt.

We can thank the player that made that idiotic suicide pass for this...I think it was Weber?

Weber also fired one right at Heatley's biceps :cool:

[burning_acid1]

If I was Iginla and Canada selected me to play on the 4th line. I would respectfully decline and stay home. Give my spot to a kid.

Exactly! They named him an alternate captain for a reason...

[Smell My Finger]

If I was Iginla and Canada selected me to play on the 4th line. I would respectfully decline and stay home. Give my spot to a kid.

The thing is they didn't. Nash Crosby Iginla were the #1 line the entire time at Team Canada Orientation. I would not be suprised if Babcock pulled this crap on Iginla before the first game.
Isn't Detriot and the Flames in a battle to get into that last playoff spot. Isn't common knowledge around the NHL that a confident Iginla is hard to stop? But Iggy lacking confidence is a shaky competitor.
Iginla Being bumped from the top line to the 4th for no reason would be a mindfrack to Iginla. All the while Canada has enough depth to overcome that ridiculous Babcock decision. I just think Babcock, Yzerman, Holland have other possibly other motives. Food for thought anyways.

[Jagger]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but it seemed to me that Babcock was almost disappointed that Iglina scored a hattrick in this Norway game. It made it much more difficult for him to justify utilizing the player as the extra forward.

Unless Iginla is injured I do not understand the coaches mindset whatsoever. Are they continuing to stick to their 'masterplan' at all costs? Surely not, given the level of experience and expertise involved here.

[flip]

I don't know about anyone else, but these Olympics are starting to leave a real sour taste in my mouth. I know Iggy wouldn't agree, but I would rather just not even have him there at all then to see him get disrespected like this.

I hope Iggy and the Flames aren't as big of a whiner as you and some of the other posters.

This and the Babcock thread seriously make me question some of you guys. People saying they hate Babcock, that he's a crappy coach, that you won't cheer for Canada, that you now hate the Olympics.

I hate to break it to you guys but Iggy is just one superstar on a team of superstars.

Do you think all the Toews and Richards fans were whining like babies because their guy got started on the 4th line?

I know we all have a soft spot for Iggy but some of this is really pathetic. People blaming Babcock for losing us gold after 2 games? Saying Iggy on the top line is the only way to gold?

These two threads have honestly made me lose faith a lot of posters ability to objectively judge anything. Some of you guys sound like Canuck trolls that roll through these parts. No logic or reason, only whining and complaining.

Post Iggy's stats all you want but he's on a struggling Flames team and other than November has pretty much been a non-factor all year long. I really do wish he'd play every game like he did against NORWAY but lets not forget it was friggin' NORWAY that he played well against.

If he deserves a spot on the top line, Iggy will get it. No amount of whining about the horrible plight of Jarome will change that, no matter how funny it is when I read it.

Edit: How appropriate that right as I post this someone posts a conspiracy post that Babcock was mad that Iggy did well against Norway.

Oh, no! Someone call Transplant99, maybe he can enlighten us on how this is actually a Kevin Lowe conspiracy and how Babcock is being blackmailed by Lowe to make sure Iggy doesn't get good ice time!:rolleyes::bag:

[Ark2]

I hope Iggy and the Flames aren't as big of a whiner as you and some of the other posters.

This and the Babcock thread seriously make me question some of you guys. People saying they hate Babcock, that he's a crappy coach, that you won't cheer for Canada, that you now hate the Olympics.

I hate to break it to you guys but Iggy is just one superstar on a team of superstars.

Do you think all the Toews and Richards fans were whining like babies because their guy got started on the 4th line?

I know we all have a soft spot for Iggy but some of this is really pathetic. People blaming Babcock for losing us gold after 2 games? Saying Iggy on the top line is the only way to gold?

These two threads have honestly made me lose faith a lot of posters ability to objectively judge anything. Some of you guys sound like Canuck trolls that roll through these parts. No logic or reason, only whining and complaining.

Post Iggy's stats all you want but he's on a struggling Flames team and other than November has pretty much been a non-factor all year long. I really do wish he'd play every game like he did against NORWAY but lets not forget it was friggin' NORWAY that he played well against.

If he deserves a spot on the top line, Iggy will get it. No amount of whining about the horrible plight of Jarome will change that, no matter how funny it is when I read it.

Edit: How appropriate that right as I post this someone posts a conspiracy post that Babcock was mad that Iggy did well against Norway.

Oh, no! Someone call Transplant99, maybe he can enlighten us on how this is actually a Kevin Lowe conspiracy and how Babcock is being blackmailed by Lowe to make sure Iggy doesn't get good ice time!:rolleyes::bag:

I find posts like this far more annoying than anything else in this thread.

[flip]

I find posts like this far more annoying than anything else in this thread.


Good for you. If you don't agree with me then feel free to not read it.


Am I annoying because I actually think Babcock is a decent coach? Or is it because despite my love for Iggy, I don't think he's the greatest player in the history of hockey? Or maybe it is because I recognize that there are other players on this team that have incredible skill? Or maybe it is because I realize that Iggy can just as easily be back on the 1st line? Or maybe it is because I didn't just complain about team Canada for a whole page and tried to use some logic and reason as to why Iggy isn't on the 1st line?

If defending the coaching staff and not just making Iggy out to be a martyr is annoying then I guess I'm annoying.

Some posters have made some very valid points about the setup of this team (Vlad had a nice breakdown in one of these threads). Agree or disagree it is better than just saying Babcock pissed away gold and that you won't be cheering for Canada anymore because Iggy isn't the centerpiece of this team.

I like Iginla as much as the next guy and I think Babcock has some kinks to work out with his line up but I'm not such a kool aid drinking, blinders on fan that I just blindly proclaim the team a failure because Iggy isn't on the 1st line. It just sounds like sour grapes. "well OUR guy isn't the #1 RW so I guess the coach is an idiot and has it out for him". Riiiiiiiiiight.

[howard_the_duck]

If Hockey Canada wanted a player to bang and crash on the 4th line, Rene Bourque would have been the much better choice. That is simply not Iggys game.

Were these guys not on the road for the better part of a year picking this team?? Simply baffling.

[HPLovecraft]

How do you disagree with someone without reading what they say?

[Smell My Finger]

Hey Flip last time a Team Canada player scored a hat trick against ANY Country was 22 years ago in 1988.
Regardless what you think about Iginla he accomplished another piece of Iggy lore and history.
Utilizing who is statistically right now the 4th best RW in the entire NHL as a checker is ######ed.
Maybe Iginla should have brought his gold medal for inspiration to this group of forwards who want and then in private said to Babcock is this what your staff wants and walk out. But we all know Iggy is all class, which is why Babcock is pulling this sh#t with him because Iggy will be graceful take the high road and be a team player.

[flip]

Hey Flip last time a Team Canada player scored a hat trick against ANY Country was 22 years ago in 1988.
Regardless what you think about Iginla he accomplished another piece of Iggy lore and history.
Utilizing who is statistically right now the 4th best RW in the entire NHL as a checker is ######ed.
Maybe Iginla should have brought his gold medal for inspiration to this group of forwards who want and then in private said to Babcock is this what your staff wants and walk out. But we all know Iggy is all class, which is why Babcock is pulling this sh#t with him because Iggy will be graceful take the high road and be a team player.

See, your reasoning is hilarious.

Iggy got a hat trick. No one has done that in 22 years.

ZOMG I guess that means Iggy is the greatest player in history! Why do we even need anyone else just put out Iggy and 2 Dmen and we'll win.

Babcock is doing EXACTLY what we all wanted after Turin.

In Turin we left off a bunch of skilled guys and brought a true checking line (Draper/Maltby etc). Then we realized that even though they can check, they were useless elsewhere and couldn't score.

Now, Yzerman and co. have learned from that mistake and do the WJHC route of Team Canada and bring the best 20 skaters. However, if we do that then we MUST use some of our amazing skilled guys in modified roles.

No matter what you guys think Babcock didn't tell Iggy "Jarome you are just a checker now, DON'T you dare score". You know why? Because that would be ######ed.

Team Canada is utilizing very skilled players in roles that they aren't 100% acustomed to. But that is the cost of making the team. Plus, we learned in 06 that using crappy players who are good checkers doesn't work. We need guys who have skill and can play a good 2 way game. They need to be good at both ends of the ice.

One thing that gave me a good laugh are the comments about Iggy being on the 4th line and how he can't be good on the 4th line and (some posters) have even suggested he should have declined or just stayed home. Or as you suggest that he'll just suck it up and play it classy.

Ok, well then you name me 4 guys on this team (the 4th line plus a 13th forward) who play a similar role to that on their NHL team?

Oh, what's that, you can't name ANY! What a shock! I guess that is because EVERY single player on this team is a 1st line player.

No matter who we put on the 4th line/13th forward they will be underutilized. Babcock obviously recognizes that Iggy has the ability to be a physical player (not sure what game he was watching this year of Iggy but that is a different discussion) and as such put him in a checking role.

When we look at the team though, Iggy is probably one of the best guys to put in a checking role.

Heatley/Thornton/Marleau - Nope they are probably the 1st line until Crosby gets his shiznat together because they already have chemistry

Crosby/Nash/Getzlaf/Perry - Well Crosby is a decent 2 way guy but no way in hell he's going to be on a checking line. Nash, he's a big physical presence but he's got WAY better hands than Iggy so not utilizing him with a Crosby type player would be a waste. Getzlaf and Perry are decent 2 way guys but them and Staal aren't as physical.

Morrow/Richards/Bergeron - ok these guys are all checking line types. Not regular checkers, but they fit the profile. They have grit, they can kill penalties, they can score, they are good defensively. Realistically this should be that "grinder" type line who is good both ways and can add some offence and grit and wear down the opposition.

I agree Iggy shouldn't be on that line. However, since Staal is already with Getzlaf and Perry (and Iggy doesn't play LW), he's either on the 1st line or he's the 13th forward. And that actually sounds about right to me.

So, we're all up in arms why? Because Iggy had a hat trick and no one has done that in 22 years? Really?

Is the backbone of your argument seriously that a)Iggy has a gold medal (so do Blake, Nolan and Fleury but we didn't bring them) and b) that Iggy got a hat trick, which is awesome, but hardly cements him in as the 1st line RW forever.

[flip]

How do you disagree with someone without reading what they say?


Ok, read it then ignore it. Or if it gives you bad vibes just skip ahead to the next post. Aren't I supposed to be on your ignore list?;)

[Diet Water]

Crosby/Nash/Getzlaf/Perry - Well Crosby is a decent 2 way guy but no way in hell he's going to be on a checking line. Nash, he's a big physical presence but he's got WAY better hands than Iggy so not utilizing him with a Crosby type player would be a waste.


So because Nash has better hands than Iginla he should be locked into the first line?

Only one player has scored a goal while playing on Canada's first line so far in this tournament, I have no idea how he did it with suck weak hands!

[Kaine]

FfvB - vBulletin is such a wonderful addon for firefox not only does one not have to read flip's post but you also don't have to read his post when they are quoted a bunch of times.

Anyways I personally never really cared much about this tournament and with them continuing Iggy's poor treatment I've completely stopped caring. I'm very happy Iggy did so well the first game and made those around him look so much better than they were playing like he has been doing his whole career. Feel bad for Iggy saying this but don't really care where Canada finishes, being that I have interest in other teams as well wouldn't be too sad to see them upset again.

Go Finland!

[flip]

So because Nash has better hands than Iginla he should be locked into the first line?

Only one player has scored a goal while playing on Canada's first line so far in this tournament, I have no idea how he did it with suck weak hands!

Nash isn't really competing with a spot with Iggy. He is playing LW and Iggy doesn't. It is more like Richards and Toews are competing for spots with Iggy on the 1st line.

By good hands I mean that Nash is more than just a shooter like Iggy. I don't think Iggy brings a whole lot to the table in comparison with these other guys when it comes to on ice skill.

Iggy has great leadership but he can do that from the bench.

Nash/Toews/Richards all have a wider range of offensive (and for Toews and Richards better defensive) weapons.

Iggy can shoot. That is about all. He's an ok set up guy as we learned last year with Cammy but I think Toews, Richards and Nash all have a wider range of weapons, even if they maybe aren't as good at pure goal scoring. All of them can gain the zone, make beautiful moves, score 1 on 1 (something Iggy is REALLY lacking), and make wonderful passes.

That isn't to say Iggy can't play 1st line RW, he just isn't the only one who can and maybe isn't even the best choice. Saying some guys are more suited to certain positions is like choosing between a Ferrari and a Lambo. None of them are bad. Some of them are very slightly better in some ways.

[Diet Water]

Nash isn't really competing with a spot with Iggy. He is playing LW and Iggy doesn't. It is more like Richards and Toews are competing for spots with Iggy on the 1st line.

By good hands I mean that Nash is more than just a shooter like Iggy. I don't think Iggy brings a whole lot to the table in comparison with these other guys when it comes to on ice skill.

Iggy has great leadership but he can do that from the bench.

Nash/Toews/Richards all have a wider range of offensive (and for Toews and Richards better defensive) weapons.

Iggy can shoot. That is about all. He's an ok set up guy as we learned last year with Cammy but I think Toews, Richards and Nash all have a wider range of weapons, even if they maybe aren't as good at pure goal scoring. All of them can gain the zone, make beautiful moves, score 1 on 1 (something Iggy is REALLY lacking), and make wonderful passes.

That isn't to say Iggy can't play 1st line RW, he just isn't the only one who can and maybe isn't even the best choice.

Actually Nash IS competing with Iginla.

Bob McKenzie had this on his Twitter yesterday.

Key for me is Rick Nash needs to play right side, which pushes Iginla off that line. Chemistry with Crosby-Nash is greater than Sid-Iggy.

Nash and Crosby can continue to try and impress the crowd with their showboating and backhand passes while not putting the puck in the net though.

As for Nash bringing more to the table, I am not sure what that is exactly, his career high in assists is 39. Not exactly impressive. He has just as many points as Iginla this year, and Iginla has struggled for the majority of the season. I really don't get all the Rick Nash hype, and what makes him a lock for Canada's first line.

Nash may be better at certain aspects of the game than Iginla, but I wouldn't say either of those things are putting the puck in the net, or helping other people put the puck in the net.

[Textcritic]

...So, we're all up in arms why? Because Iggy had a hat trick and no one has done that in 22 years? Really?
I don't think this is the whole story, though. Most people are outraged that the team's leading goal scorer, the top-scoring Canadian in Olympic tournament play, and the team's ONLY Olympic gold-medal winning forward has been placed on the fourth line prematurely. People are upset because Iginla seems to have been singled out for a problem that is not his alone.

[HPLovecraft]

Why does Nash need to play the right side? He's played LW basically his whole career and he won his Richard trophy playing the LW.

[Textcritic]

...Nash and Crosby can continue to try and impress the crowd with their showboating and backhand passes while not putting the puck in the net though.

As for Nash bringing more to the table, I am not sure what that is exactly, his career high in assists is 39. Not exactly impressive. He has just as many points as Iginla this year, and Iginla has struggled for the majority of the season. I really don't get all the Rick Nash hype, and what makes him a lock for Canada's first line.

Nash may be better at certain aspects of the game than Iginla, but I wouldn't say either of those things are putting the puck in the net, or helping other people put the puck in the net.
Nash is fast. That is the only thing I can think of, but for my money, the "chemistry" argument does not apply. Iginla has looked at least as comfortable with Crosby as Nash in my opinion.

[minnow]

I thought right wing was Nash's usual spot. ?? Maybe I'm wrong.
Never mind....

[BourqueBourqueBourque]

Exactly! They named him an alternate captain for a reason...
Thanfully Iginla has more class when compared to Babcock.

[BourqueBourqueBourque]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=345015419179&ref=ts

[flip]

I don't think this is the whole story, though. Most people are outraged that the team's leading goal scorer, the top-scoring Canadian in Olympic tournament play, and the team's ONLY Olympic gold-medal winning forward has been placed on the fourth line prematurely. People are upset because Iginla seems to have been singled out for a problem that is not his alone.


I think that might be fair. I just think that a reasonable response is necessary from us fans. Gathering up our pitchforks and torches isn't the way to analyze this issue, nor is declaring Iginla a martyr.

Even being outraged at Iggy's placement on the 4th line is a bit much. Concerned, maybe. Even upset. Outraged? Give me a break.

Plus, who is "blaming" Iggy? We already know that the media sucks. So does that mean we are assuming Babcock is blaming Iggy by moving him to the 4th line? Maybe Babs just thinks Iggy will have more success there.

Don't forget Jarome only had NINE minutes of ice time in his hat trick game against Norway. 9!!! That is like half of what he gets on a regular night.

Why weren't people up in arms over that? Oh right, because he was successful with the ice he was given.

[minnow]

Um, people were upset with his low ice time. And amazed at what he did with it. Everyone except coach, apparently.

[Ark2]

Good for you. If you don't agree with me then feel free to not read it.

Feel free to do the same.

Am I annoying because I actually think Babcock is a decent coach? Or is it because despite my love for Iggy, I don't think he's the greatest player in the history of hockey? Or maybe it is because I recognize that there are other players on this team that have incredible skill? Or maybe it is because I realize that Iggy can just as easily be back on the 1st line? Or maybe it is because I didn't just complain about team Canada for a whole page and tried to use some logic and reason as to why Iggy isn't on the 1st line?

You're annoying because you basically ignore the brunt of the posts in this thread and claim that you are the one using logic. There have been many posters that are logically making arguments that Babcock has coached this team poorly thus far. Yet, apparently, we are all Iginla homers that are blind to your "logic" :rolleyes:

If defending the coaching staff and not just making Iggy out to be a martyr is annoying then I guess I'm annoying.

It's not just about Iginla though, and this has been stated many, many times. Why is the coaching staff not rolling 4 lines? Canada's depth is it's greatest strength, but if you are just going to shorten your bench and ride 6-7 guys then Canada's offense is matched pretty easily by a handful of other teams. Why is the coaching staff breaking up the Seabrook-Keith pairng when it has been made apparent that the only reason Seabrook made the team was because of his chemistry with Keith. Why are they benching certain players like Doughty, Morrow, Richards, Iginla, and Seabrook for alleged poor play while leaning on players like Pronger and Niedermayer who are playing even worse? Why does Bergeron keep getting placed on the first line when he has done nothing and it looks fairly obvious that he does not belong there? But I guess all these questions can just be brushed aside because I'm an Iginla fan boy.

Some posters have made some very valid points about the setup of this team (Vlad had a nice breakdown in one of these threads). Agree or disagree it is better than just saying Babcock pissed away gold and that you won't be cheering for Canada anymore because Iggy isn't the centerpiece of this team.

I don't recall anyone saying that we have lost the gold, but I do see many concerned posters that have stated that if things do not improve, Canada will come up short again, and that's a fair comment. There are other people saying that they won't be cheering for Canada, but please don't be equally childish and imply that they are somehow unpatriotic because of a hockey game.

I like Iginla as much as the next guy and I think Babcock has some kinks to work out with his line up but I'm not such a kool aid drinking, blinders on fan that I just blindly proclaim the team a failure because Iggy isn't on the 1st line. It just sounds like sour grapes. "well OUR guy isn't the #1 RW so I guess the coach is an idiot and has it out for him". Riiiiiiiiiight.

As I said, the issues are far deeper than that as there appear to be multiple mistakes being made. I get that you are on the Babcock fan-wagon and are willing to believe whatever $hit he shovels because of his NHL record, just don't be upset when everyone else is not on the same page.

[MissTeeks]

Gee, what a shock that people would be upset that their favorite player from their favorite team is getting put on the fourth line at the Olympics. All it does is give something else for the Iginla haters on this board to use to say I told you so, he is washed up.

[Textcritic]

...So does that mean we are assuming Babcock is blaming Iggy by moving him to the 4th line? Maybe Babs just thinks Iggy will have more success there.
That might be a fair argument if Babcock had actually played with more than 2 1/2 lines for the second and third periods of the Swiss game. Iginla can only succeed if he gets the chance to play, and when he was stapled to the bench while the coaches continued to roll with the SJ trio, the Getzlaf line and an ineffective grouping of Crosby, Nash and any player not named Iginla, it was fairly evident that Babcock does not believe Iginla can contribute much. As I mentioned before, this decision strikes many as premature.

Don't forget Jarome only had NINE minutes of ice time in his hat trick game against Norway. 9!!! That is like half of what he gets on a regular night.

Why weren't people up in arms over that? Oh right, because he was successful with the ice he was given.
I'm not sure what your point is here; that Iginla was great with a low amount of icetime, and then was never given the opportunity to develop on that success in game 2?

[GirlySports]

The thing is they didn't. Nash Crosby Iginla were the #1 line the entire time at Team Canada Orientation. I would not be suprised if Babcock pulled this crap on Iginla before the first game.
Isn't Detriot and the Flames in a battle to get into that last playoff spot. Isn't common knowledge around the NHL that a confident Iginla is hard to stop? But Iggy lacking confidence is a shaky competitor.
Iginla Being bumped from the top line to the 4th for no reason would be a mindfrack to Iginla. All the while Canada has enough depth to overcome that ridiculous Babcock decision. I just think Babcock, Yzerman, Holland have other possibly other motives. Food for thought anyways.


Iginla was a 4th liner from the get go. Even before Christmas. Again, watch the hockey powers show. You'll see the selection process of Bergeron being on Crosby's right wing cause they were good together in some irrelevant kid's tournament 5 years ago.

[Keselke]

Rick Nash 28 29 57 -8

Jarome Iginla 27 30 57 +4

The guys have nearly identical stats this year and Iginla has proven much more over his career yet Nash is an elite player and a lock for the top line while Iginila is a non-elite and borderline team Cananda player.

I just don't see it and that is not mentioning their play in the tournament to date and Ignila's past olympic performances.


You cant tell how good a player is by pulling their stats up on nhl.com Stats only tell a portion of the story, Nash is a far more dynamic player than Iginla currently is. Iginla in 2002 or 2006 has nothing to do with 2010, why even bring that up, that was 8 years ago.

When players hit their 30's the dropoff is usually quick and steep, Iginla has lost a step this year and that is the reason he has less of a role on this team. He put up three goals against Norway. It was Norway, I think down the stretch you will see basically 3 lines being rolled and 4 D getting the bulk of the ice time, and good or bad Iginla is likely odd man out

[HPLovecraft]

You cant tell how good a player is by pulling their stats up on nhl.com Stats only tell a portion of the story, Nash is a far more dynamic player than Iginla currently is. Iginla in 2002 has nothing to do with 2010, why even bring that up, that was 8 years ago, when players hit their 30's the dropoff is usually quick and steep, Iginla has lost a step this year and that is the reason he is a non factor on the national team

The drop-off of a player when they hit 30 isn't usually quick and steep. 30 is not a magic number, and a player's prime generally spans a hand full of years past 30.

[Keselke]

[quote=HPLovecraft;2349772]The drop-off of a player when they hit 30 isn't usually quick and steep. 30 is not a magic number, and a player's prime generally spans a hand full of years past 30.[/quot

Not really. a player typically will have his general career numbers , and then suddenly one season will have a QUICK and STEEP dropoff in production, I could cite several examples, I didnt say 30 I said in your 30s, considering that is after your physical peak its to be expected. as for your prime being in your 30s among scoring forwards, specifically powerforwards as Iginla, that couldnt be farther from the truth, the truth is a player like Iginla who played that hard style for 10 years, his body starts to breakdown.

A powerforward whos production goes UP in his thirties........thats rare to non existant

[Ark2]

Nash isn't really competing with a spot with Iggy. He is playing LW and Iggy doesn't. It is more like Richards and Toews are competing for spots with Iggy on the 1st line.

Except that he is when he got moved to RW so that Toews could play LW. If you don't know what you are talking about, then just move on.

By good hands I mean that Nash is more than just a shooter like Iggy. I don't think Iggy brings a whole lot to the table in comparison with these other guys when it comes to on ice skill.

Nash is the better dangler, Iginla is the better shooter. Iginla is also the better passer and there is no way that you can say Nash is better in his own zone than Iginla since he is pretty much the biggest floater on this team. Outside of dangles and camping out on the blueline, what does Nash offer?

Nash/Toews/Richards all have a wider range of offensive (and for Toews and Richards better defensive) weapons.

This is what I don't understand. You say that you are using logic, and then you make a statment that defies all logical analysis. Between these 3 players, you have 1 season above 80 points and yet, somehow, they all have a "wider range of offensive weapons"?

Iggy can shoot. That is about all. He's an ok set up guy as we learned last year with Cammy but I think Toews, Richards and Nash all have a wider range of weapons, even if they maybe aren't as good at pure goal scoring. All of them can gain the zone, make beautiful moves, score 1 on 1 (something Iggy is REALLY lacking), and make wonderful passes.

Yupp, 2 Rocket Richard trophies, 1 Art Ross trophy, 1 Lester B. Pearson trophy, and 3 Hart trophy nominations and all the guy can do is shoot. The fact that you seem to be giving more credence to a couple of highlight reel goals than actual results is laughable. I think you would fit right in on the Oilers scouting staff.

That isn't to say Iggy can't play 1st line RW, he just isn't the only one who can and maybe isn't even the best choice.

So far he has been. Generally when you score 3 goals on a line, that doesn't scream "find someone else". And before you say, "it was against Norway" explain then why no other Canadian Olympian has done it in the last 22 years. Canada has played against some pretty weak opponents since then and no one else has scored 3 goals in a game, much less doing so playing under 10 minutes.

I will add that you made another post that was laughable, alluding to the fact that Canada did so poorly because they had guys like Matlby and Draper on the team. Anyone can tell you that they did poorly because they couldn't score, and the reason that they couldn't score was because they were more interested in dangling and looking for the perfect play than they were in just putting the puck in the net. So, if Yzerman and co. have learned their lesson, please explain to me why they have put so much stock in a couple of floating danglers (ie. Getzlaf and Nash).

[Diet Water]

Not really. a player typically will have his general career numbers , and then suddenly one season will have a QUICK and STEEP dropoff in production, I could cite several examples, I didnt say 30 I said in your 30s, considering that is after your physical peak its to be expected. as for your prime being in your 30s among scoring forwards, specifically powerforwards as Iginla, that couldnt be farther from the truth, the truth is a player like Iginla who played that hard style for 10 years, his body starts to breakdown.

A powerforward whos production goes UP in his thirties........thats rare to non existant

I'm not exactly sure what your point is, do you think the Olympics last 2 years or something?

This is a 2 week tournament and Iginla has been the best winger on the first line so far, but because he is older I guess he should just go to the 4th line. Makes a ton of sense.

[BourqueBourqueBourque]

Keselke is a Canucks troll..
Probably one of the guys who thinks Burrows deserves a spot over Iginla.

[Rubicant]

If the coaching staff feels that Iginla is better suited playing with Toews and Morrow - fine, I wouldn't be second guessing them.

Call it the 4th line if you want - also fine, there are a lot of good players on the team.

What I do have a problem with, is the coaching staff basically marginalizing Iginla as the 13th forward on this team.

I have been as critical as anyone about Iginla's play this season but through 2 games, I actually feel Iginla has been one of Canada's better players. Even if he hasn't been the best, he definetely hasn't been the worst.



More than anything though, I don't agree with a multitude of other decisions made by Babcock and the braintrust of this incarnation of team Canada.

The whole point of bringing a team like we have is to have more depth than any other country - which we do at this tournament. Why are we not rolling 4 lines (maybe not perfectly equally but close) with this makeup of team? Why are we basically playing 2.5 lines against freaking Switzerland - especially when those lines aren't generating much?

If you want a real 'checking' line then we have plenty of Canadian players that could do that job better than Morrow, Toews and Iginla. They can also have their butts stapled to the bench for 2 periods just as easily.

[Textcritic]

You cant tell how good a player is by pulling their stats up on nhl.com Stats only tell a portion of the story, Nash is a far more dynamic player than Iginla currently is. Iginla in 2002 or 2006 has nothing to do with 2010, why even bring that up, that was 8 years ago.
Because it wasn't just eight years ago, the performances in these Olympics is basically demonstrating the same: Between Iginla, Nash, Richards and Bergeron four goals have been scored; three of them belong to Iginla and 0 to Nash.

When players hit their 30's the dropoff is usually quick and steep, Iginla has lost a step this year and that is the reason he has less of a role on this team. He put up three goals against Norway. It was Norway...
So, do those goals not count because "It was Norway"? If Iginla is such an average player for Team Canada, then why is it their much better players like Nash, Getzlaf, Perry, etc. manage to score so many more against Norway?

I think down the stretch you will see basically 3 lines being rolled and 4 D getting the bulk of the ice time, and good or bad Iginla is likely odd man out
Regardless of whether Iginla is the odd man out, I think—along with many other posters here—that to ride two or three lines with the sort of talent that Canadian coaches have at their disposal is a huge mistake. The reason Canada won in 2002 was because of their remarkable balance and their ability to roll four lines. There is the potential for that in this tournament, but as long as the SJ line continues to be double-shifted, Canada's greatest advantage in their depth will not at all be a factor in this tournament.

[flip]

I'm not sure what your point is here; that Iginla was great with a low amount of icetime, and then was never given the opportunity to develop on that success in game 2?

My point is why weren't people bitching and whining about his ice time in game 1. If he had 18 minutes like normal he could have had 6 goals!!!

Another poster has already confirmed that 9 minutes in game 1 was unacceptable...

The fact that some posters are crying foul and declaring all those who aren't part of the kill Babcock mob is pretty funny but also quite sad. Attacking other posters because they don't agree with a bunch of ridiculous shiznat like "If we don't get Olympic Gold, it is Babcocks fault for not playing Iggy more" is really sad/funny.

I don't even necessarily agree that Iggy should be on the 4th line, I'm just not prepared to declare all people who even suggest that someone else get top line time is a traitor and an idiot. Frankly I think it is embarrassing that posters might read CP and think all Flames fans are that fickle.

I'm sure we'll all be attacking Canucks fans who cry foul and burn their passport if Lou doesn't get the start tonight. Yet, when it is Iggy, and it is based on less than ONE game (so far) people are ready to declare Babcock a loser and the Olympics a failure? Give me a break.

[Ark2]

My point is why weren't people bitching and whining about his ice time in game 1. If he had 18 minutes like normal he could have had 6 goals!!!

Another poster has already confirmed that 9 minutes in game 1 was unacceptable...

People were complaining. Not sure what your point is at all. But hey, you just continue to wave your hand and tell everyone that you're the one being logical :rolleyes:

[flip]

People were complaining. Not sure what your point is at all. But hey, you just continue to wave your hand and tell everyone that you're the one being logical :rolleyes:


Dude you can put little rolly eyes in every post but it doesn't make your posts good.

Insinuating I'm not a Flames fan and that I'm an idiot just because I think it is premature to say Iggy has been disrespected, Babcock is a moron and the tournament is a failure is hilarious.

At least try and have some class like some of the other respondents. You can get your point across without declaring all those against you morons. I have certainly made a point to only point and laugh at a very select group of posters.

If you'd like to purposely take me out of context so that you can make yourself feel better about being a "superior" Flames/Iggy fan go right ahead.

I'm trying to encourage SOME people to settle down and stop being chicken littles. I think debate about the merits of Iggy and his potential line mates is great. I even think he should be playing with Crosby and Nash. I just don't see how Iggy on the 4th line somehow equals lets all chase Babcock out of town and declare all other Canadian players as losers.

That doesn't mean I'm going to call everyone who disagrees a moron. I'll reserve those judgments for people who say they don't even care any more or that they refuse to watch Iggy be disrespected etc etc.

I think it is totally fair to question everything. That is what CP is for. QUestion the team, the choices, the lines, the ice time, the strategy, the goal tending. Go ahead, it is what makes CP fun.

What I like to laugh at though, is people posting stuff like "I don't even care about the Olympics anymore because Babcock is a moron for not giving Iggy more ice time. Iggy has been disgraced and disrespected by the coaching staff". Like I said before: Riiiiiiigggghhhhtttt. There is no logic or reason in that.

[Ark2]

Dude you can put little rolly eyes in every post but it doesn't make your posts good.

I like to do it every other post.

Insinuating I'm not a Flames fan and that I'm an idiot just because I think it is premature to say Iggy has been disrespected, Babcock is a moron and the tournament is a failure is hilarious.

I have not insinuated either things. What I am getting at though is that you don't seem to know what you are talking about.

At least try and have some class like some of the other respondents. You can get your point across without declaring all those against you morons. I have certainly made a point to only point and laugh at a very select group of posters.

I haven't called you a moron, that is your word not mine. Please try not to be so dramatic.

If you'd like to purposely take me out of context so that you can make yourself feel better about being a "superior" Flames/Iggy fan go right ahead.

Where have I taken you out of context?

I'm trying to encourage SOME people to settle down and stop being chicken littles. I think debate about the merits of Iggy and his potential line mates is great. I even think he should be playing with Crosby and Nash. I just don't see how Iggy on the 4th line somehow equals lets all chase Babcock out of town and declare all other Canadian players as losers.

That's the problem I, along with others have repeatedly said that the issue with Babcock is not just about his handling of Iginla. Yet, you continuously ignore this fact and act like we are all flipping out simply because our favourite player isn't getting 20 minutes a game.

That doesn't mean I'm going to call everyone who disagrees a moron. I'll reserve those judgments for people who say they don't even care any more or that they refuse to watch Iggy be disrespected etc etc.

Sigh, once again, I have not called anyone a moron. Please stop being such a drama queen.

[flip]

I like to do it every other post.



I have not insinuated either things. What I am getting at though that you don't seem to know what you are talking about.



I haven't called you a moron, that is your word not mine. Please try not to be so dramatic.



Where have I taken you out of context?



That's the problem I, along with others have repeatedly said that the issue with Babcock is not just about his handling of Iginla. Yet, you continuously ignore this fact and act like we are all flipping out simply because our favourite player isn't getting 20 minutes a game.



Sigh, once again, I have not called anyone a moron. Please stop being such a drama queen.

Go back and read your responses to me. It has all been condescending and full of snide backhanded comments. Even this post if full of insults.

Try and just contribute without having to tell the other posters they don't know anything.

My first post took a shot at the chicken little types and I've maintained that throughout my posts. I've done so because I want to be clear that there are 2 issues. First, Iggy has not been disgraced, the games are not lost, Babcock is not a loser. Second, there are valid issues to discuss and debate but they should be done in the context of Team Canada and logic. You seem to be confusing these two debates. I have been bashing the first debate (the one that is all whining), while encouraging the second debate (actual discussion about who fits where and why). Just posting stuff like "Iggy has SO many awards. That means he MUST be a 1st line guy!!!" is not an argument at all. I think I know enough about the styles of each players game to at least have a guess on where and who they should play with. If you have an idea, feel free to post it. Just try to do so without taking pot shots at me because unless you've declared the games a failure or Iggy a martyr or Babcock a loser I haven't posted a single thing that would get you so riled up.

If you have a great post about how Iggy is a better player I would love to see it. In fact, I'm not sure why you are responding to me at all. Much of your first response just repeated things I said, but you tried to use it to make me wrong.

See, what I'm trying to do is encourage real discussion, not just people whining and being overly dramatic. How about instead of just focusing on defending a select group of posters who are acting like chicken littles, you actually say something of worth.

I've provided a fair amount of commentary on why I think Iggy is on the 4th line and why we shouldn't worry. So far you've....said I don't know anything (several times), insinuated I should work for the Oilers (another backhanded insult), called me a drama queen.

The only contributions I've seen from you is that you repeated what I said, but turned the context around. I said Iggy is mainly a shooter, you said that too. I said Iggy is better on defence than Nash, you repeated that too. I said Iggy was a pretty good set up man, you repeated that too.

I said some guys have a wider range of offensive weapons. You said I don't know anything. I didn't say they were BETTER, I said wider range. Iggy needs a set up man, is ok at D and isn't really a dominant puck handler.

Nash is definitely a dominant puck handler. Richards and Toews probably are better defensively than Iggy and both of them are C, not wingers, so they can take face offs too. I also think they are equal or better passers/set up men than Iginla.

Since I know you'll want to twist my words and start posting Pts and awards I'll repeat myself. Some guys on Team Canada who are competing with Iggy for that 1st line spot have a WIDER range of talents. Not better. WIDER RANGE. That means they may not be pure shooters like Iggy but they are proficient at a RANGE of different offensive talents. Babcock may like that.

Also, let's not forget that this is BY FAR the deepest team in the tourney. With the exception of Crosby being on the 1st line and the SJ line staying together, pretty much EVERYONE else on the team (cept maybe Morrow, he's a gritty/checking kind of guy) could be switched around with good reason.

I'm sure Staal fans in Caronlina (if there are any hockey fans in Carolina) could be whining and complaining that he's been embarrassed and disrespected by Babcock and needs more ice time. I'm sure Toews fans could say the same thing. Or Bergeron fans, or Morrow fans.

No one is disagreeing that Iggy is good (hence you taking me out of context). No one is disagreeing that Iggy can play on the top line. No one is saying that Iggy definitely is the 13th forward and doesn't deserve to get ice time.

In fact, no one said that other players are better than Iggy. Just that they have different talents than Iggy.

Every single player on this team would be a top line player on EVERY team in the league. We are lucky that we even have a player that made Team Canada. We are lucky that Iggy, among all that talent, is being given a chance to shine. Maybe not as much of a chance as some of us want but he'll get his ice time.

[Ark2]

Go back and read your responses to me. It has all been condescending and full of snide backhanded comments. Even this post if full of insults.

Try and just contribute without having to tell the other posters they don't know anything. Think you can do that?

LOL

Are you serious? This is what you first posted:

I hope Iggy and the Flames aren't as big of a whiner as you and some of the other posters.

These two threads have honestly made me lose faith a lot of posters ability to objectively judge anything. Some of you guys sound like Canuck trolls that roll through these parts. No logic or reason, only whining and complaining.

Oh, no! Someone call Transplant99, maybe he can enlighten us on how this is actually a Kevin Lowe conspiracy and how Babcock is being blackmailed by Lowe to make sure Iggy doesn't get good ice time!:rolleyes::bag:

Looks to be full of snide, condescending comments to me. I believe that is the pot calling the kettle black.

If you have a great post about how Iggy is a better player I would love to see it. In fact, I'm not sure why you are responding to me at all. Much of your first response just repeated things I said, but you tried to use it to make me wrong.

I've gone over why Iginla should get just as much of an opportunity as Nash, but apparently I am just an Iginla whiner.

See, what I'm trying to do is encourage real discussion, not just people whining and being overly dramatic. How about instead of just focusing on defending a select group of posters who are acting like chicken littles, you actually say something of worth.

I feel that I have. And to be quite honest, I am not sure how one steers the conversation away from whining and being overly dramatic by jumping feet first into such practices.

I've provided a fair amount of commentary on why I think Iggy is on the 4th line and why we shouldn't worry. So far you've....said I don't know anything (several times), insinuated I should work for the Oilers (another backhanded insult), called me a drama queen.

I said that you would fit right in with the Oilers scouting staff because, based on your post, you seem to value highlight reel goals more than actual results. That seems to be in-line with the Oilers drafting strategy as they often draft flashy players who do not achieve much in the way of results. Sorry if you misunderstood.

The only contributions I've seen from you is that you repeated what I said, but turned the context around. I said Iggy is mainly a shooter, you said that too. I said Iggy is better on defence than Nash, you repeated that too. I said Iggy was a pretty good set up man, you repeated that too.

And I used all of that to conclude that Iginla is the better offensive player that brings more to the table offensively.

I said some guys have a wider range of offensive weapons. You said I don't know anything. I didn't say they were BETTER, I said wider range. Iggy needs a set up man, is ok at D and isn't really a dominant puck handler.

I said that there was no logical analysis to defend that statement and I stand behind this. People are so high on Toews and Nash, but look at what they have actually done before you buy into all of the hype these guys are getting. That's all that I am saying. I'm sorry that you seem to be getting so upset about it.

Nash is definitely a dominant puck handler. Richards and Toews probably are better defensively than Iggy and both of them are C, not wingers, so they can take face offs too. I also think they are equal or better passers/set up men than Iginla.

I agree that they are better two-way players, however that's where it ends. I think Iginla is the better passer and with respect to faceoffs, Crosby is currently one of the best faceoff takers in the league, so I really don't see why we would need another centre on his line, unless the fear is that he will always be getting waived out.

Since I know you'll want to twist my words and start posting Pts and awards I'll repeat myself. Some guys on Team Canada who are competing with Iggy for that 1st line spot have a WIDER range of talents. Not better. WIDER RANGE. That means they may not be pure shooters like Iggy but they are proficient at a RANGE of different offensive talents. Babcock may like that.

You can say that they have a "wider range of offensive talents" but that does not make it true. They have not shown such things during their careers. They aren't as strong, or as gritty, they aren't as good set-up men, they aren't better shooters, and they aren't as good at playing the body. So what have they got? Better at faceoffs, sure, but who cares since Crosby is the centre of that line? What else? Better 1-on-1? Okay, yeah, I agree. Anything else? Personally, I don't think so.

Also, let's not forget that this is BY FAR the deepest team in the tourney. With the exception of Crosby being on the 1st line and the SJ line staying together, pretty much EVERYONE else on the team (cept maybe Morrow, he's a gritty/checking kind of guy) could be switched around with good reason.

Sure, but doing so may yield lesser results, as has been seen with Bergeron and Toews playing on the first line in place of Iginla.

[Stocky]

Now, Yzerman and co. have learned from that mistake and do the WJHC route of Team Canada and bring the best 20 skaters.

Actually, they use a blank template outlining the roles they want on the team and fill the roles outlined in the template with players. This is where the debate somes in. I heard Wayne explain the process in an interview.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Iginla was a 4th liner from the get go. Even before Christmas. Again, watch the hockey powers show. You'll see the selection process of Bergeron being on Crosby's right wing cause they were good together in some irrelevant kid's tournament 5 years ago.
I wonder if Iginla would still have been penciled in as the 13th F if for instance, the Flames were leading the NW, battling with Chi and SJ for top conference seeding, and Iginla was a big factor in that (ala Nov) and on pace for 90 points....

[I_H8_Crawford]

Actually, they use a blank template outlining the roles they want on the team and fill the roles outlined in the template with players. This is where the debate somes in. I heard Wayne explain the process in an interview.
Yeah they definitely didn't go with the top 20 skaters, Bergeron wouldn't be anywhere near the team if that were the case... ditto Seabrook and probably Neidermeyer too.

[GirlySports]

I wonder if Iginla would still have been penciled in as the 13th F if for instance, the Flames were leading the NW, battling with Chi and SJ for top conference seeding, and Iginla was a big factor in that (ala Nov) and on pace for 90 points....

Hard to say... international selections are so different.
For example in Finland, they've seen Oli Jokinen play like rubbish for about 2 years now. Is he demoted to 4th line or 13th forward? No. His 2nd line center or not on the team.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Hard to say... international selections are so different.
For example in Finland, they've seen Oli Jokinen play like rubbish for about 2 years now. Is he demoted to 4th line or 13th forward? No. His 2nd line center or not on the team.
I agree, there's no way to tell, but they even said the Flames' tailspin was a factor in deciding Bouwmeester's fate, and I would put money down that if the Flames didn't go into a tailspin, #4 is out there, and Iginla probably gets put into a more prominent role.

But who knows? We never will, I am just a firm believer that Iginla and the other Flames sealed their own fates with their less than spectacular play this year... but I am not saying someone like Nash who has been equally terrible this year is beyond reproach either.

[flip]

Actually, they use a blank template outlining the roles they want on the team and fill the roles outlined in the template with players. This is where the debate somes in. I heard Wayne explain the process in an interview.

I know what you mean but I was referring more to some posters calling out Babcock for saying Iggy should play a physical game.

He may not might be just used for a scoring role, much like in the WJHC, many scorers and 1st line players will be playing a 3rd or 4th line role with limited minutes.

[GirlySports]

I agree, there's no way to tell, but they even said the Flames' tailspin was a factor in deciding Bouwmeester's fate, and I would put money down that if the Flames didn't go into a tailspin, #4 is out there, and Iginla probably gets put into a more prominent role.

But who knows? We never will, I am just a firm believer that Iginla and the other Flames sealed their own fates with their less than spectacular play this year... but I am not saying someone like Nash who has been equally terrible this year is beyond reproach either.

But I think that's Canada's mistake. You take players based on career, previous roles, and experience. Not performance over a year.

How many times in this tournament have you seen other teams and thought to yourself "That guy's still playing?"

Here's an Canadian example of an old guy. Paul Kariya. Now he's probably over the hill and shouldn't be considered on this team. But put him in a tournament like this and he'd probably get a goal or two due to his experience. International selections are tricky like that.

[flip]

LOL

Are you serious? This is what you first posted:

Looks to be full of snide, condescending comments to me. I believe that is the pot calling the kettle black.




Yeah but why do you care? I never said anything bad about you. I was making fun of people who said the tournament is a failure, Iggy is being disgraced and disrespected, Babcock is an idiot and that there is a conspiracy against Iggy.

[I_H8_Crawford]

But I think that's Canada's mistake. You take players based on career, previous roles, and experience. Not performance over a year.

How many times in this tournament have you seen other teams and thought to yourself "That guy's still playing?"

Here's an Canadian example of an old guy. Paul Kariya. Now he's probably over the hill and shouldn't be considered on this team. But put him in a tournament like this and he'd probably get a goal or two due to his experience. International selections are tricky like that.
Yet that is what the 2006 debacle was hammered with - they took the experience over the youth and who was playing well at the time...

Honestly, with Team Canada management, unless it's gold they lose.

2nd guesses come out when unverified leaked rosters get online, and they keep on going until Canada either holds gold or they don't, and that is when the knives really come out.

Hell look at all of the "Babcock is a moron" posts on this board... I don't agree with some of his line management, but the fact is his team is undefeated, and people already want his head.

[GirlySports]

Yet that is what the 2006 debacle was hammered with - they took the experience over the youth and who was playing well at the time...

Honestly, with Team Canada management, unless it's gold they lose.

2nd guesses come out when unverified leaked rosters get online, and they keep on going until Canada either holds gold or they don't, and that is when the knives really come out.

Hell look at all of the "Babcock is a moron" posts on this board... I don't agree with some of his line management, but the fact is his team is undefeated, and people already want his head.

I've always thought the criticism of the 2006 team was a bit unfair.
It was a team that had won in 2002 and 2004. It was on the big ice far away. The format was absolutely ridiculous, having to fly to Italy and play 8 game in 11 days (all because they wanted the stupid Italians to be equal to the rest). Canada can't win every tournament and it would always be an uphill battle to win in Europe. Kind of like Brazil trying to win a World Cup in Europe (for all your soccer junkies out there)

But that failure has made Canada do a 180 and this team selection is even worse I think. I don't question Babcock, he can only do so much with what he has.

[Rubicant]

But that failure has made Canada do a 180 and this team selection is even worse I think. I don't question Babcock, he can only do so much with what he has.

..... Seriously?

[Reign of Fire]

Babcock can "you know what" to his own namesake...its obvious, he didn't want Iginla on this team and maybe none of them did cause of the way they are treating him...I have feeling that this was the same reason Bouwmeester was left of this team, but with Iginla they had no choice. Mad props to Iggy for staying classy this entire time

[flip]

I've always thought the criticism of the 2006 team was a bit unfair.
It was a team that had won in 2002 and 2004. It was on the big ice far away. The format was absolutely ridiculous, having to fly to Italy and play 8 game in 11 days (all because they wanted the stupid Italians to be equal to the rest). Canada can't win every tournament and it would always be an uphill battle to win in Europe. Kind of like Brazil trying to win a World Cup in Europe (for all your soccer junkies out there)

But that failure has made Canada do a 180 and this team selection is even worse I think. I don't question Babcock, he can only do so much with what he has.

Other than Neids for Jbo and maybe Green for Seabrook (or Pronger), I just don't see any holes in the selection for this team though.

There can't be more than 1 or 2 forwards who could earn a spot in favour of other guys (Bergeron, Perry, Getzlaf for maybe Stamkos, Lecavalier/St Louis, Richards).

Point is that most of this roster is ok. Babcock has been pretty good. And I'm sure Iggy will get his shot.

[Keselke]

Keselke is a Canucks troll..
Probably one of the guys who thinks Burrows deserves a spot over Iginla.

Nvm, banned.

[GirlySports]

Other than Neids for Jbo and maybe Green for Seabrook (or Pronger), I just don't see any holes in the selection for this team though.

There can't be more than 1 or 2 forwards who could earn a spot in favour of other guys (Bergeron, Perry, Getzlaf for maybe Stamkos, Lecavalier/St Louis, Richards).

Point is that most of this roster is ok. Babcock has been pretty good. And I'm sure Iggy will get his shot.

1 or 2 defense or 1 or 2 forwards makes a big difference.
The team has no wingers.

Let's play Nash on left wing... no wait, He'll be better on right wing.. oh wait, let's put Toews on left wing.. no that won't work, let's put Richards on the PP on left wing..... oh wait... What's next? Morrow on the top line?

I would have taken a couple more wingers like St. Louis and heck even Gagne.

Gagne/Sakic/Iginla used to be a dynamite line. Now that Sakic is retired just stick Crosby in Sakic's place.. instant chemistry right?

[HPLovecraft]

I'm surprised no one has pulled the race card out yet.

[Rubicant]

I'm surprised no one has pulled the race card out yet.

I'm actually thrilled that no one has.

[HPLovecraft]

I'm actually thrilled that no one has.

Can you imagine if something like this were to happen in a couple of other sports out there that will go unnamed? A team full of white guys and the one black guy with talent gets benched and demoted to spot duty on the 4th line? Holy smokes.

Good ol' hockey.

And for the record I don't think it has anything to do with race, I'm just surprised this argument has gone on so long on CP and HF and a number of other message boards without this coming up.

[Rubicant]

Can you imagine if something like this were to happen in a couple of other sports out there that will go unnamed? A team full of white guys and the one black guy with talent gets benched and demoted to spot duty on the 4th line? Holy smokes.

Good ol' hockey.

And for the record I don't think it has anything to do with race, I'm just surprised this argument has gone on so long on CP and HF and a number of other message boards without this coming up.

Oh I wasn't implying that you did.

[Machiavelli]

And for the record I don't think it has anything to do with race, I'm just surprised this argument has gone on so long on CP and HF and a number of other message boards without this coming up.

Because the last thing that comes up in hockey is race. It's just a non-topic.

[pepper24]

I'm surprised no one has pulled the race card out yet.

Weird, I always assumed that Babcock was caucasian. Either way, the race of Babcock shouldn't be a factor in why he is making bad hockey decisions.