Stamps file official protest

[calf]

C'mon, give us the win (http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/CalgarySun/Sports/2004/10/24/682938.html)

Dunigan wants the decision reversed and the W given to the Stamps. Doubt it will happen, but it will definately raise the issue of horrible reffing in the CFL (finally!)

[Resolute 14]

The final score will not be overturned, but if this protest pushes the CFL into finally approving instant replay, then it is money and time well spent.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Am I the only one wondering why? What is the point so you don't have the absolute worst record in the CFL?

[Resolute 14]

Why should the Stamps accept being screwed out of a win they earned?

[calf]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Oct 24 2004, 01:03 PM
Am I the only one wondering why? What is the point so you don't have the absolute worst record in the CFL?
Pride. I don't think any team wants the worst record in the league. Besides, if you earned the win, you should (in theory), be credited for it.

Plus, with seasons tickets sales for next year being on the brink of totally collapsing, having that extra win could do wonders in showing that there is some promise for next year. Regardless, I think that fans who do buy seasons will see right through the W-L record and see how promising this team is.

I'll stick with pride as my answer.

[ken0042]

Why?

Ok, ticket sales and pride are good answers.

But it comes down to making officials accountable. Yes, the season is all over 'cept the crying for this year. So the Stamps are taking the time they have and working on having a playoff contention team next year. Something has to be done. We can't pay officials 6 figure slaries like in the NFL. Maybe some sort of review is needed. And a game being lost just because of a bad call is the perfect example of why it is better to have the right call.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

If it was about pride the team would have shown up for the first half, hell there were some games this season which to be honest with you I didn't see any pride from the team whatsoever. They played a poor first half, and it shouldn't come down to a ref missing a call and blaiming it on that. Sure there was a missed call, but the Stamps put themselves in a position where a missed call could be important, and refs are not able to see anything (I know when I was refing I wouldn't see things). If the goal is to get instant replay, I think that already is going to happen, but I don't see any real point to bitching about a game that doesn't matter.

[calf]

I can totally agree with you about how the Stamps should have shown up in the first half and how they put themselves in that position where it came down to the last play - that's actually partly how I feel about it.

However, like ken said, it's important that the league has refs that can do their job (being in position for trick plays that are known to happen at that point in the game). These guys are professionals and shouldn't screw up as much as they do during the course of the season - and should know the game inside out - that they should realize that the onside kick does happen on last plays of the game a few times during the season.

As well, aside from the fact that it came down to the last play - the Stamps and Lions played a close game - and the team with the most points wins...and sometimes during close football games it does come down to the last play of the game. It shouldn't be won or lost because the refs screwed up. And winning's important to teams, whether or not it's a nothing game...winning is always #1 in professional sports, no matter the situation.

[Resolute 14]

Very eloquent MMM, but that does not change the fact that the Stampeders won the game.

[JayP]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Oct 24 2004, 09:37 PM
If it was about pride the team would have shown up for the first half, hell there were some games this season which to be honest with you I didn't see any pride from the team whatsoever. They played a poor first half, and it shouldn't come down to a ref missing a call and blaiming it on that. Sure there was a missed call, but the Stamps put themselves in a position where a missed call could be important, and refs are not able to see anything (I know when I was refing I wouldn't see things). If the goal is to get instant replay, I think that already is going to happen, but I don't see any real point to bitching about a game that doesn't matter.
I keep people make this argument and still just as useless as the first time I read it.

The Calgary Stampeders scored 23 points. The B.C. Lions scored 19 points.

When and how those points came on the board has no bearing. Calgary could have scored 23 points in the last 2 minutes and the fact would still remain - Calgary beat B.C.

All this crap about "not putting yourself in that position" is garbage. Every game between the two teams has been down to the wire. Why in this game should Calgary be sporting a huge lead all of a sudden when neither of the other two games were like that? Hell, why doesn't Calgary just score 50 points in the 1st half of every game so there's no chance that we get screwed at the end?

The Stamps lose a major marketing strategy from this "loss". If we beat Winnipeg next Friday you would definitely see a lot of reference to the addition of Khari and the 3-0 record. 2 out of 3 ain't bad probably isn't going to cut it for a marketing strategy.

[browna]

Originally posted by JayP@Oct 24 2004, 09:03 PM
2 out of 3 ain't bad probably isn't going to cut it for a marketing strategy.
Worked for Meatloaf as a song!


And MMM, if the Lions are so great, the all powerful Lions should've never been in such a piosition against the lowly Stamps themselves to get beaten by one play.

If this game meant anything to Edmonton or the standings in the west, I'm thinking the CFL would've taken a closer look at this.

[calgaryred]

The win won't be over turned it has never happened in professional sports that I know of. I do hope this helps the stamps get their frustrations out on the Bombers though.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I am actually a Stamps fan, but this makes them look somewhat petty actaully. You know what, everyone realizes you got screwed, but I don't think that trying to reverse the score of the game a week after the fact does anything for the league. In fact if anything did happen it would just make the CFL look like a bush league in my view, and that isn't what I want. Petition the CFL to look into instant replay (I don't know if it would work well though due to coverage being spotty at best up here, unlike the NFL).

I think the Stamps did deserve the win, but right now the only difference is a 5 and 12 record or a 4 and 12 record, I don't know to many people that would say, wow 5 and 12, that is really good, hell I don't know if I would show up if it was 4 and 12. I don't see the point in it. And I have seen this Stamps team all year, and they are completely lacking pride in their game, and often times for good reason as this is one of the worst teams the stamps have put on the field in years (obviously).

[calf]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Oct 24 2004, 11:06 PM
Petition the CFL to look into instant replay (I don't know if it would work well though due to coverage being spotty at best up here, unlike the NFL).

The CFL is bringing in instant replay next year. I'm sure that with the network deals, the sponsorships and increased attendance, the league can put in the cash to get enough cameras around each stadium - plus, they'll be able to use the TSN, SNet and CBC cameras that are kicking around as well since all games are televised nowadays

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Oct 24 2004, 11:06 PM
I am actually a Stamps fan, but this makes them look somewhat petty actaully. You know what, everyone realizes you got screwed, but I don't think that trying to reverse the score of the game a week after the fact does anything for the league. In fact if anything did happen it would just make the CFL look like a bush league in my view, and that isn't what I want. Petition the CFL to look into instant replay (I don't know if it would work well though due to coverage being spotty at best up here, unlike the NFL).

I think the Stamps did deserve the win, but right now the only difference is a 5 and 12 record or a 4 and 12 record, I don't know to many people that would say, wow 5 and 12, that is really good, hell I don't know if I would show up if it was 4 and 12. I don't see the point in it. And I have seen this Stamps team all year, and they are completely lacking pride in their game, and often times for good reason as this is one of the worst teams the stamps have put on the field in years (obviously).
Fair enough but I think people would also remember how they went 3-0 at the end of the season,

[KevanGuy]

I don't think it is petty at all. They are doing their part to make the refs accountable for a horribly blown call. If the Stamps didnt complain it is possible the League might not even look into things. Now it forces them to at least acknowldge that something happened and hopsfully they will find a solution that will help curb blown calls like that.

[the-rasta-masta]

I don't see why they won't overturn it. I could see them standing pat if it was a call midway through the game, but this was in the last play of the game. They should change it and I don't know what reason they could find not to.

[troutman]

Dowbiggen criticizes Dunigan in the paper today for not warning the refs about the trick play. I thought I heard on QR77 after the game that Dunigan did tell the refs to watch for it. ???

[octothorp]

Originally posted by troutman@Oct 25 2004, 09:55 AM
Dowbiggen criticizes Dunigan in the paper today for not warning the refs about the trick play. I thought I heard on QR77 after the game that Dunigan did tell the refs to watch for it. ???
Yeah, from what I heard, he warned the refs about it before the game, but didn't mention it right before the play. And to me, that's all you should need to do. What's the point of running a suprise play when you have to call the refs over and advise them of it? Obviously, the opposition is going to realize something is up. If he did, infact, tell the refs about it before the game, they should have realized that the last play of the game was exactly the time they would be likely to run it.

That said, while the Stamps definitely should challenge just on principle, I'm not sure I would want the league to overturn the decision. Sets a really dangerous precident.

[calgaryred]

I can't see the league overturning the refs decision. If they did it would undermine their job and the league would lose so much credibilty. It has a hardtime as it is to be taken seriously in most sports minded critics. I agree that the Stamps should launch a protest cause it does make the league take a serious look at their refrees and realize the game is getting better but the refs are not. The non-call against the brutual closeline tackle that wasn't called weeks ago in the hamilton winnipeg game (I think it was this game) really made head office upset with the refereeing. I hope this complaint will address the refs even more so, last year the refrees were screwing up and the CFL weren't doing anything about it. It's funny how in one year that has totally changed.

[ken0042]

Originally posted by calgaryred@Oct 25 2004, 11:47 AM
The non-call against the brutual closeline tackle that wasn't called weeks ago in the hamilton winnipeg game (I think it was this game) really made head office upset with the refereeing.
Yes, that was the game. I was at that game; and I thought there was going to be a riot.

I hadn't heard that the league had reviewed that play. Good to hear. Not only was it a bad call, but the Bomber fumbled on the 3 yard line. I imagine I might let go of the ball if my head was about to be ripped clean off.

I'm all for the physical play of football. I love to see a good clean hit. But stuff like that is un called for.

[JiriHrdina]

Good column today on TSN about the controversey

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/chris_schultz.asp?id=102700

[Cube Inmate]

Originally posted by octothorp@Oct 25 2004, 11:27 AM
That said, while the Stamps definitely should challenge just on principle, I'm not sure I would want the league to overturn the decision. Sets a really dangerous precident.
Maybe it's time that precedent is set. I, for one, am tired of the supposed "infalibility" of the refs on the field...it's time for the league to make a statement that it's more concerned about the integrity of the game than the appearance of being perfect.

Yeah it's dangerous...what if this type of error had occurred in the middle of the game? Then the rest of the game would have been affected, and you couldn't conclusively say what the outcome would have been. Impossible situation. But in this case, where it is conclusive, I still think it's better to have the appearance of fairness than to simply hold fast and say "game's over, sorry!"

What I would do..? Overturn the result and immediately (before the playoffs) implement a video replay protocol. There are enough cameras on the field for every playoff game anyhow...use them. If they don't catch it, at least there's no video evidence to lead to this kind of controversy!

[RedHot25]

Denied.

http://tsn.ca/cfl/news_story.asp?id=102728

Gotta love the first line in the story, though....

While admitting that game officials made a mistake, the Canadian Football League has denied a protest by the Calgary Stampeders following a controversial loss to the B.C. Lions on the weekend.


And they couldn't tell it from the TSN Broadcast :huh: ?

The league claimed early review of the TSN game footage was "inconclusive" as camera coverage did not provide a clear view of the field position of Calgary receiver Sulecio Sanford. However, the Stampeders produced video footage that was reviewed following the conclusion of the game, and it revealed that Sanford was onside in the seldom used Open Field Kick play.

[JiriHrdina]

Well as mentioned above the fact the Stamps lost this game probably benefits them more long-term because they will get the #1 pick. Of course, some have suggested that winning the game would help them selll tix for next season - so a tough call.

But, if this incident helps the CFL get their heads out of the ground and actually do something about the horrible officiating then it will be worth it.

[Sylvanfan]

Well the ironny is that the Stamps beat the Lions the previous game on a blown call. Now the Lions beat the Stamps thanks to a blown call. I think it's worth the time investment for Dunigan to do this so that the league can avoid these situations next year. The Stamps have come to life in the last month or so, and if something like replay can help them avoid a result like this in the first week of next season than it's worth it. It's also worth calling out the referees because how would the league look if the Grey Cup came down to a blown call? If something can be done now to improve officiating than it should be implemented for the playoffs.

[troutman]

Well the ironny is that the Stamps beat the Lions the previous game on a blown call.

I don't think the two games are comparable. The refs did blow the call on the Stamps TD in the previous game, but that was after the refs blew about 3 other calls that really hurt the Stamps. BC had nothing to complain about in that game. Calgary did get into the end zone on a previous play and it was not counted. There were also some ridiculous pass interference calls that benefitted the Lions.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Sylvanfan@Oct 26 2004, 08:20 AM
Well the ironny is that the Stamps beat the Lions the previous game on a blown call.
Err, no. The blown call that Calgary won that game on was a makeup call for another blown call by the referees two plays earlier when they blew dead a Calgary TD without justification.

Take away all of the errors, and Calgary still wins both games.

MMM - It isnt the Stamps who make the CFL look bush league, it is the CFL itself that comes off bush league. The officials onfield were told by Dunnigan that he might try such a play, the play is in the rulebook, and of six officials, not one was paying enough attention to the play on field to get the call right.

This whole mess is on the CFL and it's incompetent officials, not the Stamps.

[Bertuzzied]

I can't believe that Jake Ireland was not even mentioned in the article. His stubborness cost us the win because at least 1 of his linesman signalled it as a touchdown.

Fire Jake's ass now. What his email address??

[Mike]

In my opinion, the worst part about the whole mess was that Jake Ireland was heard saying "did anyone see if 81 was onside?" while walking to the dressing room with the other officials. Isn't that something you ask them while you are on the field?

I'm not surprised the decision wasn't overturned. It should have been, but the CFL rules state the the only way a decision can be overturned is if the referee intentionally made the wrong call. While the Stamps obviously won, there is no evidence to say that Ireland intentionally screwed up. I don't agree with it, but hey..time to move on and kick some Bomber butt.