Can this group please get their act together. I have no problem with Women's ski jumping, it would actually probably be a good thing for Canada's medal haul, but this whole lawsuit process is a farce. They've sued VANOC demanding that they be included, despite the fact that decisions on inclusion are made by the IOC, and now they're dragging this to the Supreme Court. Unless they expect the Supreme Court to drastically alter the application of the Charter this is a massive waste of time and money.
Just IOC acting like the rich old white guys that make up their members.
How else do you call attention and attempt change then to drag the parties through a highly publicized lawsuit? They aren't being given much option to do anything else here...
Just IOC acting like the rich old white guys that make up their members.
How else do you call attention and attempt change then to drag the parties through a highly publicized lawsuit? They aren't being given much option to do anything else here...
It would be helpful if they brought the suit in a court that had jurisdiction. The Canadian courts have no ability to apply the Charter to the IOC, this is a case that's calling for a massive change to Charter application and doing so on an incredibly abbreviated timeline. Like I said, it's not an issue with the goal it's an issue with the means chosen to achieve it.
I'm also not sure it's going to help their cause going forward. The next Olympics are in Russia, and I'm not so sure that Russian law is going to find a way to accomplish what Canadian law cannot. If they'd sued the right party in the right court they would have obtained the same publicity and actually had a chance of succeeding. As it is they've garnered a bit of attention and done little more than spin their tires.
I don't know much about the IOC's decision making process in this case, but I don't like the idea that parties can force their sports in by legal means. If there's a legitimate basis for keeping a sport out, here the claim is lack of competition, it shouldn't be overruled. If the basis is purely discriminatory that's another discussion, but I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to make that case.
...If there's a legitimate basis for keeping a sport out, here the claim is lack of competition, it shouldn't be overruled. If the basis is purely discriminatory that's another discussion, but I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to make that case.
I didn't know that was the reason it was being kept out. If that's the case, it's a little more understandable. But really, women's ice hockey started out like that and there's still a lack of competition, but other countries are catching up. It would be the same with women's ski jump.
It would be helpful if they brought the suit in a court that had jurisdiction. The Canadian courts have no ability to apply the Charter to the IOC, this is a case that's calling for a massive change to Charter application and doing so on an incredibly abbreviated timeline. Like I said, it's not an issue with the goal it's an issue with the means chosen to achieve it.
They tried that already. It didn't work, so they are trying other means.
I didn't know that was the reason it was being kept out. If that's the case, it's a little more understandable. But really, women's ice hockey started out like that and there's still a lack of competition, but other countries are catching up. It would be the same with women's ski jump.
There's been talk of women's hockey being dropped due to lack of competition, I'm not sure how serious that talk has ever been but it's definitely been mentioned.
The argument for keeping it in has often been that doing so will allow competition to develop as other nations catch up. While I agree with that premise, I'm not sure it should be grounds for getting a sport into the Olympics. If there are 2 countries who are great at sport X and 10 who suck at it should that sport be allowed in simply because doing so would allow the sport to grow? I think saying yes to that opens a pretty wide door to any sport with any kind of following, no matter how small.
Rerun, no competition in men's hockey? Really? I'd say the fact that 6 different teams have played in the 3 Gold medal games shows a bit of competition. Not to mention the fact that the most recent games saw Switzerland beat Canada and Latvia tie the US, and previous tournaments have seen even bigger upsets. There are 6-7 teams capable of winning the mens tournament, I don't think there's a single Olympic sport with more than a half dozen potential medalists that could be expected to be there.
Rerun, no competition in men's hockey? Really? I'd say the fact that 6 different teams have played in the 3 Gold medal games shows a bit of competition. Not to mention the fact that the most recent games saw Switzerland beat Canada and Latvia tie the US, and previous tournaments have seen even bigger upsets. There are 6-7 teams capable of winning the mens tournament, I don't think there's a single Olympic sport with more than a half dozen potential medalists that could be expected to be there.
If anybody other than Canada, Russia, Sweden, and I'll even throw USA in there, won the gold medal it would be a HUGE upset. When teams like Canada and Russia can lay a 15-0 pounding on other teams that are in the A division, I say there really isn't much competition.
They tried to bring a claim against the IOC in a court that has jurisdiction over the IOC? I haven't seen anything about that, do you have a link?
I don't think they tried to take the IOC to court, but they at least pleaded their case with them.
Really, Women Ski Jump couldn't possibly be worse for competition then some of the other sports. And if it was added, competition would instantly increase, sure it would take a few years for that competition to develop, but the IOC is smoking something if they think it wouldn't.
There's no reason to keep it out of the Olympics, IMO.
Can't really agree with the idea of suing your way into the Olympics. Why not follow the process that all the other sports abide buy? No sexism here by the IOC, it simply does not meet the criteria set forth by the IOC to be allowed in. By 2014, it may fit.
Where they really lose the high moral ground(if they even had it) is the complainant's position is that the men's event should be pulled if they don't get in. That just smacks of a sour grapes attidute that should stay in recess hour at elementary school.
If common sense loses out and they do win, expect the IOC to pull the entire event and move it to another more reasonable location.
There has been question marks about women's hockey and lets remember that they IOC pulled Baseball(Men) and softball(women) because they did not have sufficient participation.
If anybody other than Canada, Russia, Sweden, and I'll even throw USA in there, won the gold medal it would be a HUGE upset. When teams like Canada and Russia can lay a 15-0 pounding on other teams that are in the A division, I say there really isn't much competition.
First, please find me a 15-0 win at any of the last 3 Olympics, good luck because it didn't happen. The most lopsided result in 06 was a 9-2 win by Russia over Latvia, the same Latvian team that tied the US. In 02 the most lopsided result was a couple 8-1 losses by Belarus, the same Belarus that finished 4th.
Second, Finland, Slovakia and the Czechs are all legitimate contenders for Gold. Finland is the defending silver medalist, Slovakia went undefeated in the opening round in 06, and the Czechs took the bronze in 06. None of those teams are noticeably worse than they were 4 years ago, in fact some of them might be better.
I don't think they tried to take the IOC to court, but they at least pleaded their case with them.
Really, Women Ski Jump couldn't possibly be worse for competition then some of the other sports. And if it was added, competition would instantly increase, sure it would take a few years for that competition to develop, but the IOC is smoking something if they think it wouldn't.
There's no reason to keep it out of the Olympics, IMO.
Well based on that logic there's no reason to keep anything out of the Olympics. If you're letting in events as a way to have them build competition why shouldn't any sport that can put forth 4-5 competitors get in? Sure that's an extreme example, but it makes my point. Requiring Olympic participation on the basis of growing a sport is illogical. Establish your sport and then come to the Olympics, not the other way around.
And if they didn't attempt legal action against the IOC my original point stands. A lawsuit against people with no power to do anything about the result is purely wasteful grandstanding.
Women's Ski Jumping in the Olympics
