Website development software - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Caged Great · 05-27-2009, 02:50 PM

I'm going to be needing to make a website from scratch, but I want to be able to create it myself. What would be a recommended software program for that?

I'm aware of dreamweaver and will be learning how to use it but I've heard that it's a bit of a pain to work with.

Thanks.

Envitro · 05-27-2009, 02:52 PM

I've been using Dreamweaver for about 8 years now and I find it to be the best. however, others will have their own opinions.

I think it's easy and intuitive to use, even for beginners.

llama64 · 05-27-2009, 04:00 PM

What type of website are you creating? If it consists strictly of HTML/CSS files, Dreamweaver is probably the best software to start with.

It's also a good transition environment if you want to get into more dynamic sites that use PHP or another programming language.

Personally I have a huge loathing for anything WYSIWYG. It takes about as much time to make a site using straight mark up and CSS (includes learning the basics) as it does trying to massage a WYSIWYG editor into doing what you want.

I tend to use fancy "text-editors" (I'm a web developer).
On windows: PSPad or Notepad++ (also had fun using Visual Studio Web Developer as a straight HTML/CSS editor).
On Mac: Coda/Textmate (HTML scripts make things waaay easier).

Caged Great · 05-27-2009, 04:06 PM

Basically, what I'm going to be using it for is for my business. It's going to have some pictures and video of some of my work. Possible tutorials on how to create proper spaces visually and other minor things. I may also in the future wish to expand upon things and create an online store component to things but that's another whole ballgame.

llama64 · 05-27-2009, 04:13 PM

Two things you might want to look at if you want to do this on your own: http://www.squarespace.com/ - Been thinking about setting up a personal site using this service. Looks fairly sweet and it has high recommendations.

http://www.shopify.com/ - Seems to be the go to place for basic ecommerce. Not terribly configurable, but if you don't need much and have a PayPal account, probably the easiest solution (and cheaper then hiring a developer to do it for you).

Caged Great · 05-27-2009, 04:36 PM

That shopify.com one doesn't really suit my purposes, but the other one looks very interesting. I need to be able to customize things and make them look fancy due to the nature of my business. I'll have to put that one on the list of possibilities.

Thanks.

maverickstruth · 05-27-2009, 04:59 PM

(Ahem... sorry... apparently this is really, really long... I got on a roll )

I've used a little bit of everything, most of which have been mentioned before... Dreamweaver (in developer/code mode only) at work, TextMate for freelance (I have a Mac) and Notepad++ when neither at home nor work, on a PC.

Summarizing what I understand you to have said, you're looking for basically something that will allow you to get a site up quickly and effectively, while still allowing you to learn how to create a "brochure type" website that will look good and work for your prospective clients. In that case, a tool like SquareSpace might be your best option.

That being said, it's really important to consider what your primary goal is. Is it to learn how to build a site, or is it to have a great business website? While the two aren't mutually exclusive, it can be hard to get both if you aren't experienced as a web developer / designer.

If learning is important to you, then take the time to learn how to do it right -- meaning going code mode all the way, no WYSIWYG tools, no site building helpers. Your site won't be up right away, but you'll have gained a boatload of skills.

If getting the site up and functional is more important, then focus more on things like SquareSpace which will do a lot of the heavy lifting for you, allowing you to move more quickly. You won't gain the skills to do much of the work on your own, but then again -- web development doesn't sound like it's your business anyway

On a side note, there are a couple of other things I'd suggest any business owner should consider before building (or commissioning) a website.

An effective website won't be created by just jumping in and starting building. Really, a site that works and looks good is only the tip of the iceberg. Great sites have all kinds of behind the scenes work that go into them before the design and building even begins.

From doing some research into what your customers (present and future!) expect from your website, to things like figuring out what your content will be, how it will be structured, and how that structure will be supported by the design and the coding.

But like I said, the extent to which you want to go into those things are really going to depend on your primary goal is -- to learn to build, or to have a business website. That should probably be the biggest consideration when it comes to deciding tools you will use, and how you'll go about it.

Caged Great · 05-27-2009, 05:33 PM

It's actually a little bit of both. I'm not really concerned with traffic on the site right away anyway as most of my business for the immediate future will be word of mouth and brochure based anyway, so I want to take the time out to do it right, and to learn how to do it properly.

I'll probably be going code all the way then. I've done a little bit of it a while back, so it shouldn't be that difficult to pick up again. It'll probably be about 6 months or so before everything will be running smoothly with my site anyway.

Thanks.

cheung31 · 05-27-2009, 05:37 PM

If you use Mac OS, there's Coda: https://www.panic.com/coda/

There's a 3-day sale right now. 50% off:
https://www.panic.com/sale/

llama64 · 05-28-2009, 12:36 AM

Some people don't believe in a CMS, but given how cheap hosting is these days, I would recommend getting one setup and learning how to configure it over a static HTML website. So if you want something more customizable:

Wordpress (http://www.wordpress.org). It's setup to be a "blog" platform, but honestly you can do just about anything you want with it. Lots of ready made themes out there that you can learn from, plus the PHP coding is of pretty decent quality if you care to learn any of that. The documentation is very helpful (something not always found in the open source world).

The nice part is that it will mostly handle basic search engine optimization for you, which can be important for a business oriented site.

If you're really brave, Drupal (http://www.drupal.org) is pretty much the best open source CMS platform out there right now. It can be customized to do absolutely anything, but it comes with a massive learning curve. I've put nearly 6 months of time into learning the software and I still feel like I'm drowining in it. Still, haven't seen anything that really competes with it's flexibility (if anyone knows of something similar, let me know!).

llama64 · 05-28-2009, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheung31

If you use Mac OS, there's Coda: https://www.panic.com/coda/

There's a 3-day sale right now. 50% off:
https://www.panic.com/sale/

I bought Coda at full price a while back. It's worth the full sticker price - getting it at half price is an incredible steal.

Russic · 05-28-2009, 01:54 AM

I've built sites from scratch, in dreamweaver and in Drupal. I have to agree with everything llama64 said. Dreamweaver boils very complicated things down to something very easy, which will result in things getting pretty messy at times. Drupal on the other hand is very customizable and cool but I wouldn't touch it unless you have a good deal of experience. I support his first recommendation, squarespace. I admit I haven't used it beyond the free trial, but the things it can do are amazing. The next site I build will be with squarespace.

octothorp · 05-28-2009, 09:12 AM

Lots of good advice in this thread. If you want something free and you're willing to get your hands a bit dirty, Drupal is fantastically powerful. At times it's also quite complex, and sometimes requires some ingenuity to get things working the way you want (not every module works with every version of Drupal, and sometimes a feature you want hasn't been ported forward yet). If you're working in Drupal, I think it's useful to still have Dreamweaver for developing your templates and occasionally working with PHP code.
Squarespace is probably the easiest thing out there. My wife uses it for her site (along with shopify); the visual look is extremely important for hers, and it allows her more control of all of that than any of the other blog-type hosting services she's investigated.

MickMcGeough · 05-28-2009, 12:55 PM

Notepad, baby! Never lets me down.

sclitheroe · 05-28-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llama64

If you're really brave, Drupal (http://www.drupal.org) is pretty much the best open source CMS platform out there right now. It can be customized to do absolutely anything, but it comes with a massive learning curve. I've put nearly 6 months of time into learning the software and I still feel like I'm drowining in it. Still, haven't seen anything that really competes with it's flexibility (if anyone knows of something similar, let me know!).

I wouldn't touch Drupal with a ten foot pole unless I had a full time sysadmin to babysit the server. I subscribe to the Drupal security announcement mailing list, and its a near constant stream of security bulletins for Drupal and its various add in modules. I honestly have no idea how anybody without a full time IT department is able to keep up.

llama64 · 05-29-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

I wouldn't touch Drupal with a ten foot pole unless I had a full time sysadmin to babysit the server. I subscribe to the Drupal security announcement mailing list, and its a near constant stream of security bulletins for Drupal and its various add in modules. I honestly have no idea how anybody without a full time IT department is able to keep up.

Ok... what would you touch then?

Rather then just dumping on something, how bout offering a decent alternative.

Russic · 05-29-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

I wouldn't touch Drupal with a ten foot pole unless I had a full time sysadmin to babysit the server. I subscribe to the Drupal security announcement mailing list, and its a near constant stream of security bulletins for Drupal and its various add in modules. I honestly have no idea how anybody without a full time IT department is able to keep up.

This is one reason I think I'm going to make the jump to squarespace. I don't have the technological know-how to keep up with everything.

c.t.ner · 05-29-2009, 11:06 AM

Some great information here, I hope it gets you started. From what you've got online for a web site, either WordPress or Squarespace will probably work. (Never used squarespace myself, but it's interesting and might be worth a gander)

I know a bunch of people have been sending you editors and stuff like that, but you'll also need some design and photo editing stuff. I've your not willing to shell out a bunch of money for photoshop and illustrator, here's an online app that could be of help.

http://www.sumopaint.com/ for images etc. and use http://www.picnik.com for touching up photos.

KTrain · 05-29-2009, 11:09 AM

GIMP is also a good alternative to Photoshop. It's an open source software that will let you do many of the things you'll need to design your site. http://www.gimp.org/

Quote:

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

I know a bunch of people have been sending you editors and stuff like that, but you'll also need some design and photo editing stuff. I've your not willing to shell out a bunch of money for photoshop and illustrator, here's an online app that could be of help.

http://www.sumopaint.com/ for images etc. and use http://www.picnik.com for touching up photos.

Caged Great · 05-30-2009, 01:10 AM

any good place to get dreamweaver cs4 for cheap?