Child Molester at Work

[Devils'Advocate]

I work for a government agency (a quick google search, or a search here for that matter, would reveal which one). We found out that someone at the agency has been arrested, and plead guilty, to putting his hands down the pants of a five year old and fondling her genitals. Twice.

The judge sentence the man to 90 days in jail (to be served on weekends) & 15 months house arrest during which he is only allowed to leave his home to go to work.

Now, I never met the man, but I know several people who work in his area and they don't want this man back. They most certainly don't want to be working side-by-side with a child molester. However, some "councilors" met today with these workers and were told that the man has every right to come back to work, the judge made it clear that he gave the man a light sentence so that he could earn a living for his children and that the man would not be reprimanded at work for his actions outside work. These "councilors" made it clear that should anyone be found insulting, harassing or threatening the man, that it would be they, not the child molester, that would be reprimanded.

-=-=-=-=-=-
Ok, I pseudo-understand that they guy is going to pay for his crime by going to jail and being put under house arrest. Debt to society and all that. But I definitely understand those that say that they would not want to work around this guy. Apparently, if you don't want to work with a child molester, the only thing to do is quit.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I work for a government agency (a quick google search, or a search here for that matter, would reveal which one). We found out that someone at the agency has been arrested, and plead guilty, to putting his hands down the pants of a five year old and fondling her genitals. Twice.

The judge sentence the man to 90 days in jail (to be served on weekends) & 15 months house arrest during which he is only allowed to leave his home to go to work.

Now, I never met the man, but I know several people who work in his area and they don't want this man back. They most certainly don't want to be working side-by-side with a child molester. However, some "councilors" met today with these workers and were told that the man has every right to come back to work, the judge made it clear that he gave the man a light sentence so that he could earn a living for his children and that the man would not be reprimanded at work for his actions outside work. These "councilors" made it clear that should anyone be found insulting, harassing or threatening the man, that it would be they, not the child molester, that would be reprimanded.

-=-=-=-=-=-
Ok, I pseudo-understand that they guy is going to pay for his crime by going to jail and being put under house arrest. Debt to society and all that. But I definitely understand those that say that they would not want to work around this guy. Apparently, if you don't want to work with a child molester, the only thing to do is quit.

I would organize a mass walk-out, write my MLA, and post this on every single local forum I could think of.

Stop at nothing to make sure this guy is sent packing. He can work on the rigs to support his kids.

[Ozy_Flame]

Oh please. The man did his time, why not give him a chance? Perhaps the experience has changed him for the better. Traditional Ale, you seem to be assuming this man is a serial child molester and cannot be rehabilitated.

He may have made a big mistake in life, but it's just as bad to judge without giving a chance, as hard as it may seem.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Oh please. The man did his time, why not give him a chance? Perhaps the experience has changed him for the better. Traditional Ale, you seem to be assuming this man is a serial child molester and cannot be rehabilitated.

He may have made a big mistake in life, but it's just as bad to judge without giving a chance, as hard as it may seem.

Dood, he molested a child. I don't think there is really much more to be said!?

90 days and house arrest...total joke. When that kid turns 20-25 and fully comprehends what happened they are going to be right eff'd up.

I am appalled the judge let him go back to his government job having now been tried and convicted of a federal offense (it is federal right? If not it bloody-well should be...). Even more so that some fruit-cake shrink took up the "won't somebody please think of the poor wounded man who was forced into choosing this behavior" crap and everyone who went along with it.

This man should be working in isolation. Its times like this I wish we were a little more brutal and just cut off his junk like they still do in some parts of the world.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I work for a government agency (a quick google search, or a search here for that matter, would reveal which one). We found out that someone at the agency has been arrested, and plead guilty, to putting his hands down the pants of a five year old and fondling her genitals. Twice.

The judge sentence the man to 90 days in jail (to be served on weekends) & 15 months house arrest during which he is only allowed to leave his home to go to work.

Now, I never met the man, but I know several people who work in his area and they don't want this man back. They most certainly don't want to be working side-by-side with a child molester. However, some "councilors" met today with these workers and were told that the man has every right to come back to work, the judge made it clear that he gave the man a light sentence so that he could earn a living for his children and that the man would not be reprimanded at work for his actions outside work. These "councilors" made it clear that should anyone be found insulting, harassing or threatening the man, that it would be they, not the child molester, that would be reprimanded.

-=-=-=-=-=-
Ok, I pseudo-understand that they guy is going to pay for his crime by going to jail and being put under house arrest. Debt to society and all that. But I definitely understand those that say that they would not want to work around this guy. Apparently, if you don't want to work with a child molester, the only thing to do is quit.

What he did was certainly no mistake, and he's probably some mentally messed individual. However, even though you don't know him, what is this guy's personality like? The reason I ask is this...sometimes people do really bad things, and unless he's the type of person to recommit the same thing against one of your coworkers, why is everyone shunning him? I know it's one thing to be there and one thing to be talking from across the country, but unless this guy is a rapist waiting to pounce or he's simply just creepy, give the guy a chance. I'm sure he was a "good guy" before everyone found out about this, and it makes people disgusted now, but if he's really sorry for what he's done and he does have to earn money to support his kids, would you want to hurt his kids by causing their pop to lose his job? I guess at the end of the day, the sad part is, if you run him off the job, his kids will be affected.

If he doesn't have kids, run the guy out!

[Matata]

This is the price we have to pay for living in a society with a legal system that, for better or worse, believes in giving people a second chance. This echoes the numerous Bertuzzi threads (lets not make this another).

Personally, I'm not interested in living in any country that cuts off genitalia for any reason.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Matata

Personally, I'm not interested in living in any country that cuts off genitalia for any reason.

I take it back. I think instead we should make him the official jock hand washer for the Edmonton Oilers for a season.

Thats good punishment.

[photon]

I think the discussion about the appropriate punishment for the crime is totally separate from the workplace issue.

The guy has a serious problem, one that we don't know how to fix yet. His brain is broken.

What if he was an alcoholic and was convicted of beating his kids? Should a workplace revolt be staged then? What if he wasn't convicted of beating his kids, but was a tool and just psychologically abused them by calling them stupid and useless and stuff? Those kinds of things have as much a long term impact on kids as this would, though in different ways I'm sure. Why are molesters basically on the move for the rest of their lives, but physical and psychological abusers not?

It would be so much better if we could actually figure out how to help people with these mental problems.

Definitely don't put him in a job where he works with kids, that's a no brainer. But if everyone at work knows, it doesn't matter what job he goes to he's going to get the same reaction.

Since we don't know how to fix these things, either society has to give them a chance to get back to leading a normal life and keeping things under control, or put them all in a special commune out in the middle of nowhere where they can't hurt anyone.

[pepper24]

DA - hopefully you don't work with children. That would be the top priority.

Away from work, hopefully he gets his act together and makes the best of his second chance.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by pepper24

DA - hopefully you don't work with children. That would be the top priority.

I imagine not and in this case, I assume a criminal check isn't required for employment and isn't in the employee handbook. Otherwise, they would probably be marching him out the door.

[jtfrogger]

Originally Posted by Matata

This is the price we have to pay for living in a society with a legal system that, for better or worse, believes in giving people a second chance. This echoes the numerous Bertuzzi threads (lets not make this another).

Personally, I'm not interested in living in any country that cuts off genitalia for any reason.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Any punishment that prevents him from making a living once outside of a jail setting would be unreasonable. Given what little that the OP mentioned, unless he would work with children in an unsupervised fashion, there does not appear to be any reason why he should not be able to go back to work.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by photon

I think the discussion about the appropriate punishment for the crime is totally separate from the workplace issue.

Agreed, but when the abuse is sexual and there are kids involved its hard to not get passionate. Sorry for my part in that.

The guy has a serious problem, one that we don't know how to fix yet. His brain is broken.

Permanently broken. Once a pedo, always a pedo. He can maybe be rehab'd to become a non-offending pedo, but will always be one none-the-less. Same thing with addicts.

What if he was an alcoholic and was convicted of beating his kids? Should a workplace revolt be staged then?

If it was public, the whole building knew, and its a government job? I'd feel like a whole lot of dirty laundry I never wanted to see just got shoved in my face and I'd be right upset about it.

What if he wasn't convicted of beating his kids, but was a tool and just psychologically abused them by calling them stupid and useless and stuff? Those kinds of things have as much a long term impact on kids as this would, though in different ways I'm sure.

It most certainly does, but it is not the same kind of damage. As a reasoning adult, we can learn to accept the emotional problems of our parents and accept them as the imperfect people they are. Doesn't mean its all hugs n kisses after Mom or Dad was a monster, but at least there can be understanding.

Why are molesters basically on the move for the rest of their lives, but physical and psychological abusers not?

Because in the child's adult life the ramifications of sexual abuse are far further reaching and psychologically difficult to overcome. Having your body violated is the physical part that doesn't happen with psychological abuse, but that is the catalyst for the complete stripping of self-worth.

With psychological abuse, the patient can come to understand their Dad was simply an angry who should be pitied.

It would be so much better if we could actually figure out how to help people with these mental problems.

Of course they need help. What they don't deserve is their cushy government job where all their co-workers are forced to work in a potentially unsafe situation. I would argue that for some of these people, the anxiety/stress of this situation would greatly affect their work.

Definitely don't put him in a job where he works with kids, that's a no brainer. But if everyone at work knows, it doesn't matter what job he goes to he's going to get the same reaction.

No need to tell everyone he's working with. He is entitled to his privacy after all. I think its madness he would even think of returning to that same job on his own, but since that is what the OP implied its what I am going on. He could easily privately drive a fork-lift or work on rigs or something.

Since we don't know how to fix these things, either society has to give them a chance to get back to leading a normal life and keeping things under control, or put them all in a special commune out in the middle of nowhere where they can't hurt anyone.

How is 90 days, house arrest, and the same job with public knowledge of your heinous crime normal?

Not picking on you here, just discussing.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Oh please. The man did his time, why not give him a chance? Perhaps the experience has changed him for the better. Traditional Ale, you seem to be assuming this man is a serial child molester and cannot be rehabilitated.

He may have made a big mistake in life, but it's just as bad to judge without giving a chance, as hard as it may seem.

Statistics overwhelmingly show that child molesters do NOT rehabilitate and in fact usually escalate.

The guy should be in prison for the rest of his life.

[Burninator]

You're not a child, what do you have to worry about?

[photon]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Agreed, but when the abuse is sexual and there are kids involved its hard to not get passionate. Sorry for my part in that.

No worries, it's a charged issue for sure. Big decisions should be made without emotion I think though so it's hard to figure out what's right.

Permanently broken. Once a pedo, always a pedo. He can maybe be rehab'd to become a non-offending pedo, but will always be one none-the-less. Same thing with addicts.

I agree with this, at least at this point in time. I think eventually we'll understand the mind enough to be able to help people like this, just like I hope we can eventually help rapists, psychopathic killers, etc.. It seems barbaric to me that some in society say "we can't help the person so lets just kill them off."

And it is possible for a pedo to lead a normal life without acting out and hurting anyone.. but I'm sure it's not very easy.

Because in the child's adult life the ramifications of sexual abuse are far further reaching and psychologically difficult to overcome. Having your body violated is the physical part that doesn't happen with psychological abuse, but that is the catalyst for the complete stripping of self-worth.

I guess it depends on the circumstances and such, I know a few people who were abused as children and it doesn't have that impact at all, it was something to get through, but they had good support, and more importantly I think at the time when the abuse first came out they didn't go psycho nuts about it.. I think a lot of the harm comes from the parents response to the abuse; the see how horribly the parents react and make it really bad in their own minds.. whereas if the parents reacted more rationally (go nuts away from the kid) the impact could be dealt with much better. At least in the incidents I know of that was the case.

Plus it's probably different for boys and girls.

I don't know much about the research in the area though so I can't speak beyond my anecdotal knowledge.

Of course they need help. What they don't deserve is their cushy government job where all their co-workers are forced to work in a potentially unsafe situation. I would argue that for some of these people, the anxiety/stress of this situation would greatly affect their work.

Not to be cavalier, but if these co-workers aren't children what really do they have to fear? I guess it's one of those situations where it depends on the person. He could be a really creepy violent guy who's just barely keeping it bottled up, or he could be one of those guys who'd you'd never guess and would never actually hurt anyone.

That gets into the whole thing that is pedophilia a sexual or a violent crime.. and just like a sexual deviant with adults it probably depends.. One guy gets arrested because he likes to peek up women's skirts or grab a boob on the c-train, another because he abducts and rapes them... all inappropriate behaviour, but definitely not the same thing and probably driven by different things. Sticking a hand down a girl's pants is vile, but not violent.

No need to tell everyone he's working with. He is entitled to his privacy after all. I think its madness he would even think of returning to that same job on his own, but since that is what the OP implied its what I am going on. He could easily privately drive a fork-lift or work on rigs or something.

Stuff like that is public record though isn't it? So it'd get out eventually probably. Yeah I think he's nuts to go back to the job.

How is 90 days, house arrest, and the same job with public knowledge of your heinous crime normal?

Not picking on you here, just discussing.

True, I mean't some semblance of normalcy, at least being able to hold a job and work to eat, and living without acting out on the urges.

The not normal side being ostricised from your job (every job eventually) and community (every community eventually). We're social animals and being cast out from society is harsh, to the point of suicide for some I'm sure. All because your brain is broken in a way we can't fix.

[Resolute 14]

While I can see the legal argument that they couldn't fire the guy, if I was in that situation, my reaction to his return would probably be to box my stuff up and walk out the door.

[dustygoon]

Wow. What a range of opinions....i am surprised there is a lot of tolerance for this (photon had a good point.....sexual, psychological, and physical abuses are all still abuses....difficult to judge which has the most negative long term impact).

Curious who has kids and doesn't on here. I am a new dad......before our son was born, I would have been disgusted to some extent and hoped this fellow was in jail for being so messed up. But being a dad and reading a story like this.....you want this guy and anyone like him as far away from your kids as possible. Punishing and rehabilitating are secondary.......ensuring this NEVER happens again is the most important in my mind. I don't give a finger about his well being and contribution to society anymore. That's how I feel.

Start with a range of solutions from mild to the worst....and stop at the one that we are reasonably certain this guy won't do it again.

[flip]

Personally I can never forgive anyone who has fondled a child. Now break someone's neck in a sporting event during a fight in the heat of the moment and the answer is maybe.

[photon]

I'm a dad.. So I understand the emotions are super strong; survival level stuff I think.

Try looking at it the other way. What if your son molested someone? So now those protection level emotions work against you instead of for you. What's the appropriate response for your son now? I think looking at it that way you might get a much more appropriate response.

I agree, making sure it never happens again is probably a good level, but our system isn't designed that way.. it's designed with the idea that punishment will promote rehabilitation.. which doesn't work for these cases.

Freeze them until we find a cure!

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Burninator

You're not a child, what do you have to worry about?

meh thats just dumb, even with the green text.