Hutterites exempt from driver's licence photos: Appeal Court - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

RedHot25 · 05-18-2007, 09:55 AM

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/sto...peal-lost.html

Alberta has lost an appeal of a court ruling that exempts Hutterites from having photographs on their driver's licences.

The province argued that having all drivers photographed helps prevent fraud, identity theft and terrorism.

But in a ruling released Thursday, the Alberta Court of Appeal concluded that the government failed to justify the infringement on the Hutterites' religious objections to being photographed.

....

Service Alberta spokesman Eoin Kenny said the government has already issued about 80 interim licences without photographs. He said the provision is now available to anyone with a religious objection to being photographed.

Stranger · 05-18-2007, 09:57 AM

How will we identify potential hutterite terrorists?

Burninator · 05-18-2007, 10:05 AM

I guess this picture is Amish, meh close enough.

Prototype · 05-18-2007, 10:15 AM

Can they draw a picture of the Hutterites, and put it on there?

Cube Inmate · 05-18-2007, 10:21 AM

Take a fingerprint, then. If you're pulled over and show a non-photo license, then you should be required to provide a fingerprint to the officer to avoid the type of incident that HAS happened, where the driver will later claim "it wasn't me!"

habernac · 05-18-2007, 10:26 AM

next time I renew my license, I'll tell them I'm a plainclothes Hutterite and they can't take my picture.

burn_baby_burn · 05-18-2007, 10:28 AM

Hutterites don't want to be photographed? Thats news to me. My mother teaches at a colony and takes pictures of the kids all the time.

The real reason the Hutterites don't want to have pictures on their drivers license. Is because they send one into get his class 1. Then they all use the same license. No picture with a name of Joe Hofer. How would the cop know?

Agamemnon · 05-18-2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Hutterites don't want to be photographed? Thats news to me. My mother teaches at a colony and takes pictures of the kids all the time.

The real reason the Hutterites don't want to have pictures on their drivers license. Is because they send one into get his class 1. Then they all use the same license. No picture with a name of Joe Hofer. How would the cop know?

Maybe they don't want to be in 'the system' with their faces attached to their names... thats what The Beast wants...

Ford Prefect · 05-18-2007, 10:57 AM

Actually, until this case came up I didn't know hutterites had any convictions against having their picture taken. Photos of hutterites appear in the local weekly paper quite often. Knowing hutterites, they probably have an ulterior purpose in mind. Like, for example, if they don't have to have photos on their DL then they can share IDs to get the young guys into the bar. Or maybe without photos on their ID they figure courts won't be able to prove which John Stahl stole the oil patch equipment or neighbour's gas.

Burninator · 05-18-2007, 11:03 AM

Hutterites drink?

Azure · 05-18-2007, 11:08 AM

As I understand it....only a few colonies were pushing for this.

What I don't understand is that many colonies allow their people to have digital cameras. Whats the difference between taking pictures, and having your picture on a DL?

Comes across as really stupid to me. And it has nothing to do with 'the beast'....its a group of people trying to further their cause because of religious means.

So much for traveling to the US. There is no way someone crosses the border without picture ID.

Ford Prefect · 05-18-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

So much for traveling to the US. There is no way someone crosses the border without picture ID.

Based on the assumption their refusal to have their photo on their DL is for ulterior purposes, not religious reasons, they could always get a passport for crossing the border. Sure, that's a direct contradiction, but no big deal if the assumption that the whole case is not really based on religious ideals is correct.

Azure · 05-18-2007, 11:26 AM

A bit hypocritical too.

They will SAY it is based on religious ideals...but really, that is just dumb. There are only a few colonies doing this, and I wouldn't be surprised if many others feel that this is dumb.

Like I said, many Hutterites have become more liberal with the internet, computers, etc, etc. There is absolutely no reason why a picture on a DL should be a problem.

J pold · 05-18-2007, 11:29 AM

As long as it doesn’t affect the way they grow cucumber than it’s all right by me

Ford Prefect · 05-18-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

As long as it doesn’t affect the way they grow cucumber than it’s all right by me

I hate to ruin your day, but you realize that a lot of colonies use sewer effluent for garden fertilizer don't you? Just kidding, I've only heard of one colony that does that.

Reaper · 05-18-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burninator

Hutterites drink?

Yep, like it is going out of style.

fredr123 · 05-18-2007, 11:46 AM

Assuming for a moment that a legitimate religious belief would be violated by compelling the Hutterite brethren to put a photograph on their drivers' licenses, would you still disagree with this decision?

The veracity of the religious belief seems to be what's getting most people's goats around here, but that really isn't what the case is about. The validity of the religious belief wasn't seriously challenged in court. This is a case where the government tried to use a regulation (not a statute) enacted under a law whose purpose is to regulate highways and roadways to impose the picture requirement. They tried to justify the the requirement by saying that the objective was to combat identity theft and prevent terrorism, among other things.

It seems like a pretty weak argument for the government to make. The effect on a person's religious freedoms in this situation is hugely negative while the resulting benefit to society is sketchy at best.

But fear not: the Court of Appeal left open the door for government to enact a statute specifically aimed at combating terrorism, identity theft and other ills. Such a statute, if it properly balances competing rights and interests, could be justified.

RedHot25 · 05-18-2007, 11:47 AM

They drink. We once were given a couple bottles of homemade wine. Wowsers. That stuff had to be 100% alcohol, it was nuts.

Ford Prefect · 05-18-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fotze

Dandelion Wine.

Crown Royal is the poison of choice for most of the hutterites I know. When they do work off-colony they usually want to be paid in bottles of Crown Royal and flats of beer. The brand of beer doesn't matter, but Crown Royal is always asked for by name.

Ford Prefect · 05-18-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredr123

... The effect on a person's religious freedoms in this situation is hugely negative while the resulting benefit to society is sketchy at best.

Very true, but that is based on the assumption that a real religious freedom is at stake here, which is doubtful. Since there is very likely no real religious freedom involved here, merely religion being used for the expediency of advancing ulterior motives, then the hutterites' position is even weaker than the government's.