Americans....if you are facing the Death Penalty, come to Canada - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

jolinar of malkshor · 02-02-2007, 09:54 AM

Accused U.S. killer won't face death penalty

The United States has reluctantly given in to Canadian demands that accused double murderer Timothy Wallace not face the death penalty if he is returned to face trial.

The about-face means Wallace could be returned to Arkansas for his murder trial as early as Friday, safe in the knowledge that he will not face a lethal injection if found guilty.

''Our only option for bringing Mr. Wallace to justice here in Saline County is to waive the death penalty to make certain the Canadian authorities will release him back into our custody,'' said Ken Casady, prosecuting attorney for Saline County, Ark.

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...0db2d1&k=54898

This isn't the first time (and it won't be the last) that an American has entered Canada after commiting a murder/s inorder to make sure he will not face the death penalty.

Remember Charles Ng? Same thing with him. I think we had held him for several years until the US decided that they would not seek the death penalty.

I have mixed feelings about this. I am against the death penalty but I hate the fact that Canadian tax payers are having to pick up the tab to remand these people until the US decides that they will drop the death penalty. In this case I am glad that the US didn't take that long to decide that.

What do you people think?

burn_baby_burn · 02-02-2007, 10:02 AM

I don't think it is the Canadian goverments right to impose its beliefs on another country. I'm not sure what this guy did. But I allways feel that the victoms are forgotten in these situations. The fact is that this guy is a murderer. Death sentence or not, that is the law in the state he committed the crime. It shoudn't be any of Canada's business. Ship him back, he is not our resposability.

fredr123 · 02-02-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I don't think it is the Canadian goverments right to impose its beliefs on another country. I'm not sure what this guy did. But I allways feel that the victoms are forgotten in these situations. The fact is that this guy is a murderer. Death sentence or not, that is the law in the state he committed the crime. It shoudn't be any of Canada's business. Ship him back, he is not our resposability.

Dude hasn't been convicted yet. Trial hasn't even started.

It's a tough line to draw. There are places all over the world that institute the death penalty for crimes that, in my opinion, probably don't warrant it. Do drug dealers deserve to be put down? It's debatable. If the Canadian government changed its extradition policies then we would be in a situation where drug mules could be deported back to their country knowing full well that, once there and convicted (in some kangaroo court, or otherwise) that they'll be executed. I don't mind the policy as it stands, with all its faults and occassional hiccups, compared to the alternative. A system that takes into account indivdual situations has an even greater potential for abuse, in my opinion.

Now, if the border guards would just prevent people from getting into Canada in the first place...

Hack&Lube · 02-02-2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I don't think it is the Canadian goverments right to impose its beliefs on another country. I'm not sure what this guy did. But I allways feel that the victoms are forgotten in these situations. The fact is that this guy is a murderer. Death sentence or not, that is the law in the state he committed the crime. It shoudn't be any of Canada's business. Ship him back, he is not our resposability.

Think about this. Somebody who may be a murderer runs into your house to escape somebody. You know full well that if you send them back out your door, they will be killed immediately. What do you do?

Do you have the conscience to send somebody out to his assured death? If you know the guy would be punished thoroughly for his crimes for several years but he would live, would that make it easier for you to send him back out?

Resolute 14 · 02-02-2007, 11:53 AM

Frankly, the Canadian government is completely in the wrong here, as it always is in these cases.

As Burn Baby Burn says, we have no right to impose our own moral beliefs on another country. This person is wanted in the US for murder, we have an extradition treaty with the US. Good enough. Send him to the US to face trial, and let the US handle him as they will.

Azure · 02-02-2007, 12:07 PM

The guy shouldn't have been let into Canada in the first place.

Hack, at least in this instance, the guy is sure to get a fair trail. The law is the law.

CaptainCrunch · 02-02-2007, 12:21 PM

Actually its funny but the death penalty portion of the extradition treaty was requested by the Americans, since it was negotiated at a time when Canada still had the death penalty and the American's had recinded it. The American's wanted the opportunity to request that a Canadian or American being sent to Canada for a capital crime couldn't be executed.

I don't like the idea of someones sentence being unduly influenced via a political decision, but sadly if Canada sent a guy back to the states to be fried there would be a huge voter backlash against the government that did it.

Resolute 14 · 02-02-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't like the idea of someones sentence being unduly influenced via a political decision, but sadly if Canada sent a guy back to the states to be fried there would be a huge voter backlash against the government that did it.

Frankly, I doubt it. The usual suspects would make a big issue out of it, but I suspect the average Canadian could care less what the US does to a murderer.

RougeUnderoos · 02-02-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

As Burn Baby Burn says, we have no right to impose our own moral beliefs on another country.

What goes around comes around.

Resolute 14 · 02-02-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

What goes around comes around.

??

jolinar of malkshor · 02-02-2007, 02:43 PM

Any person subject to a removal order has the right to a pre-removal risk assesment to ensure the person is not in danger if returned to their native country. Facing the death penalty can usually qualify as danger.

Canada does not remove people if their life is in danger.....like it or not....the supreme court says so.

SaskaBushFire · 02-02-2007, 02:44 PM

This is how World War Three starts... and were Poland!! AHHHHHHH!!!

Sparks · 02-02-2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

I don't think it is the Canadian goverments right to impose its beliefs on another country. I'm not sure what this guy did. But I allways feel that the victoms are forgotten in these situations.

I might be misinterpreting what you're saying, but I would argue that the victims are wronged only because they have to wait for the trial and the death penalty is irrelevant. That might be the way I feel because I'm against the death penalty, though. I don't think that, if executed, the victims will feel any better because of it. That's a matter of opinion, though (and a totally different debate).

I do agree - as I said - that it's unfortunate that the victims have to wait for closure.

I support the fact that the Canadian government can't, in good conscience, return suspects if the possibility exists that they may face the death penalty. We officially do not support it, and we should stand by that.

OilersBaby · 02-02-2007, 04:29 PM

I'm surprised more don't do it. I obviously don't think it's right.

Kool Keef · 02-02-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Think about this. Somebody who may be a murderer runs into your house to escape somebody. You know full well that if you send them back out your door, they will be killed immediately. What do you do?

Do you have the conscience to send somebody out to his assured death? If you know the guy would be punished thoroughly for his crimes for several years but he would live, would that make it easier for you to send him back out?

Your analogy is completely flawed. There isn't a lynch mob waiting on the border to string this guy up the minute he's released. He is accused of murder. He will be tried. He has a chance to be found not guilty. Even if found guilty, there is no guarantee that he will be executed.

A more appropriate analogy would be that an accused murderer runs into your house to escape the authorities and the police are waiting at the front door. What's your conscience say now?

RougeUnderoos · 02-02-2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

??

Just sort of a wisecrack. They don't have much of a case, or they have a very hypocritcal one if they do, if they want to argue that we have no right to impose our morals on another country.

Anyhow, I think this is a good stance for Canada to take. I don't have much sympathy for murderers, but I don't think we should willingly hand over anybody to another government if there is a a good chance that said government will be intentionally poisoning the guy.

Fozzie_DeBear · 02-02-2007, 04:51 PM

I agree that Canada should not send send someone back to a country where they face the prospect of torture and/or death. I hate the fact that we have to pay for these yahoos. And I don't see it as imposing our morals on the US, we are not allowing them to impose their morals on us...

burn_baby_burn · 02-02-2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

I agree that Canada should not send send someone back to a country where they face the prospect of torture and/or death. I hate the fact that we have to pay for these yahoos. And I don't see it as imposing our morals on the US, we are not allowing them to impose their morals on us...

But they are not imposing their morals on us. This is a US citizen who committed a crime in a US state. If someone knows the punishment for murder is death, should'nt the person have know the consequences of their actions? Obvioulsy, or he woudn't have fled to Canada for protection.

The way I look at it. He is not a Canadian citizen. It is none of our business. Get him out of here before he kills somebody up here.

metallicat · 02-02-2007, 05:23 PM

I can't even believe there needs to be a debate about this. The common sense move would have been for the RCMP to pick the guy up, and physically toss him back across the border into the waiting hands of Americans. Clearly they can't just do that, but they SHOULD be able to. I don't like people being able to run to this country if something is going wrong for them in the US. War desertersare in the same boat. Ship the cowards back.

RougeUnderoos · 02-02-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

But they are not imposing their morals on us. This is a US citizen who committed a crime in a US state. If someone knows the punishment for murder is death, should'nt the person have know the consequences of their actions? Obvioulsy, or he woudn't have fled to Canada for protection.

Well they are asking us to take part in the execution of a human being. That's kind of against the rules in Canada.

What if the guy was from some crazy country where marijuana posession was punishable by death and he fled to Canada. If you knew he was going to get his head cut off if we send him back, would you be singing the same tune? Circumstances are different but it's the same principle.