Salvaging the honour of a family - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Cowperson · 12-28-2005, 02:40 PM

Your stomach will turn and you'll involuntarily bring your hand to your throat as you read this.

Then you'll tell us what you think of what is a common practice in that part of the world.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10628136/

Cowperson

habernac · 12-28-2005, 03:13 PM

someone needs to slit his throat and let the ******* bleed out on the floor. Sick.

BrownOne · 12-28-2005, 03:46 PM

Thats harsh.

4X4 · 12-28-2005, 03:51 PM

Huh. I guess you don't have to live in Alabama to be an 'uncle daddy'. Marry your dead brother's wife out of custom? Strange...

What if your brother was gay? Go down with the ship, I suppose...

OK, kidding aside... This is just the kind of crazy **** that reminds me of 9/11. Irrational responses to perceived crimes against religion. Yet somehow, there are people who would defend these activities. "It's their way".

IMHO, the most tragic part of this is that (according to the article) the father was acting on an allegation made by the neice/daughter's husband.

Who the hell would kill their own daughter because her husband alleged adultery? I can't even finish this thought. I'm just appalled.

BlackArcher101 · 12-28-2005, 04:59 PM

You get honour from killing the family who's honour you are trying to protect?

FireFly · 12-28-2005, 05:35 PM

Well, there are people who believe that female circumcision will keep a girl clean as it apparently hurts like hell to have sex that way. Wouldn't surprise me that they would take it that far as well if they don't remain clean.

@theCBE · 12-28-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFly

Well, there are people who believe that female circumcision will keep a girl clean as it apparently hurts like hell to have sex that way. Wouldn't surprise me that they would take it that far as well if they don't remain clean.

I'm probably going to regret this once i hear the answer but here goes...

How exactly do you Circumcise a woman?

Vulcan · 12-28-2005, 08:23 PM

Some East Indian guy did this to his daughter in B.C. for dating a non E. Indian. Really bad when they bring backward cultural biases and hate with them.

Rubber Ducky · 12-28-2005, 08:33 PM

You know, I understand that this world is full of different cultures and different values, and I would never want to ram my values down other people's throats...

But having said that, some things are just wrong. Killing your daughters to protect your family's honour is just sick, no matter what your religion/culture/beliefs/values.

I just can't fathom it. Disgusting.

Rubber Ducky · 12-28-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @theCBE

I'm probably going to regret this once i hear the answer but here goes...

How exactly do you Circumcise a woman?

From what I understand, it involves removing skin on the outside of the vagina. And, again from what I've read, it's often done so that sex is not pleasurable. In some cultures, sex is meant strictly for procreation, and not for pleasure.

Anyhow, read up on it for yourself here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_circumcision

CaramonLS · 12-28-2005, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @theCBE

I'm probably going to regret this once i hear the answer but here goes...

How exactly do you Circumcise a woman?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM

In most cases it is cutting the clitorus out.

Swifty · 12-28-2005, 08:45 PM

I respect their religion.

I don't respect their culture.

Can you blame me? am I racist because I think the continual abuse of women and heinous acts like these arn't being dealt with in most arab countries?

Igottago · 12-28-2005, 10:03 PM

Obviously women's rights are still a huge issue in the Islamic world, and parts of their society need to wake up and purge this kind of stuff from their community...this is a pretty twisted story, but hey, at least the guy was arrested and hopefully will recieve a stiff punishment.

Vulcan, it is terrible when "they" bring backwards cultural biases with them to our pure country. Like real canadians (whatever that is) are inherently incapable of being backwards or doing something f-d up. I mean, no white canadians ever do anything twisted. Bernardo anyone? Can't you look at the guy as one screwed up nutcase, instead of assuming "they" bring backwards culture with them? or does that happen all the time?
Get off it buddy, there's screwed up people everywhere. There's also a lot (the majority) of immigrants who adapt well into the society here. There's also a lot of "they's" who were born and raised here. I suggest you get to know some of "them".

Flame Of Liberty · 12-29-2005, 04:05 AM

In the past four months, six Muslim women living in Berlin have been brutally murdered by family members. Their crime? Trying to break free and live Western lifestyles. Within their communities, the killers are revered as heroes for preserving their family dignity.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...344374,00.html

and

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...27/wturk27.xml

and

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4345459.stm

Flame Of Liberty · 12-29-2005, 04:13 AM

Also:

But despite the conspiracy of silence, the one-way overseas trips and cover-ups, police estimate that there are 117 "honor killings" still unsolved in Britain. According to London's Daily Telegraph, Scotland Yard, announcing an initiative, said there is "growing evidence that women in the Asian community [British media code for Muslim] are being subjected to violence and sometimes murdered for defying cultural traditions." According to the same article, the initiative was prompted by the conviction of Abdalla Yones, who stabbed his 16-year-old daughter 11 times and cut her throat after she began seeing a Christian boy, was jailed for life. London police say that at least two young Asian women are reported missing under mysterious circumstances every week.

Honor thy father - or else

Flame Of Liberty · 12-29-2005, 04:23 AM

As a teenager in the West Bank, Soauad became pregnant by a local boy. He 'shamed' Palestinian family condemned her to death and she was set on fire by her brother-in-law. Every year, thousands of women in the Middle East die in 'honour killings'. Souad survived. This is her harrowing story

Burned alive

Cowperson · 12-29-2005, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igottago

Obviously women's rights are still a huge issue in the Islamic world, and parts of their society need to wake up and purge this kind of stuff from their community...this is a pretty twisted story, but hey, at least the guy was arrested and hopefully will recieve a stiff punishment.

Vulcan, it is terrible when "they" bring backwards cultural biases with them to our pure country. Like real canadians (whatever that is) are inherently incapable of being backwards or doing something f-d up. I mean, no white canadians ever do anything twisted. Bernardo anyone? Can't you look at the guy as one screwed up nutcase, instead of assuming "they" bring backwards culture with them? or does that happen all the time?
Get off it buddy, there's screwed up people everywhere. There's also a lot (the majority) of immigrants who adapt well into the society here. There's also a lot of "they's" who were born and raised here. I suggest you get to know some of "them".

Bernardo is a sick individual. The woman who killed her four children in Texas because God told her to do so is a sick individual. And other examples. It is not a practice accepted by our society. Its typically committed by individuals with some pyschological problems.

The practice of honour killings in a Muslim culture does not require one to be mentally ill or unstable. It happens with great frequency and a certain and large segment of society finds it an acceptable practice, so much so that perpetrators are not punished and governments continue to allow mechanisms that do not discourage it.

That is the difference and that is what you are attempting to defend.

Having established that, should we allow honour killings in our society? Are we the ones who are wrong to look on this practice in horror? Would we be a better society or a worse off society if we allowed the practice?

Cowperson

Swifty · 12-29-2005, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fotze

The muslim world has this crap hanging over their head and refuse to acknowledge it.

The catholic world has the whole priest/child buggery thing that they do not acknowledge.

Religion and/or culture can be ######ed, much like people. A few winners and a whole lot of losers.

If you guys can, rent the movie East is East, it is hilarious but really touches on the muslim honour thing and you can almost see where they are coming from.

I very much doubt I would ever be able to understand the slaying of someone's own children. In fact, I find it very dishonourable. I would be hard pressed to maintain even the slightest amount of control if confronted by one of these cowards... a blood rage is a strange thing...

mykalberta · 12-29-2005, 09:37 AM

Killing your 4 daughters = you are mentally unstable, shatever the reason, god told you, honour, etc.

This sort of thing is why we need the death penalty. Individuals like that need to be erased from the consiousness of man.

MYK

@theCBE · 12-29-2005, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowperson

The practice of honour killings in a Muslim culture does not require one to be mentally ill or unstable. It happens with great frequency and a certain and large segment of society finds it an acceptable practice, so much so that perpetrators are not punished and governments continue to allow mechanisms that do not discourage it.

I would be curious to see what the statistics of these honour killings are over say the last 30 years in countries like Pakistan and other countries where large populations of muslims reside.

I do agree that they are sick and even one killing is one too many but the fact is in some countries these killings do occur and its not a new phenomenon they have been happening for many years. The big difference is that its is only in the last few years that the rest of the world has started to pay attention.

I have never been to Pakistan but I know people that have recently and all of them have said the amount the country has changed and become more modern over the last 30 years is astounding. I would assume that as a country becomes more modern and more integrated into global society and less isolated as Pakistan has done, that the tolerance of barbaric acts such as honor killings becomes less.

If these killings have decreased 2000/year 20 years ago to 260 this year that means the country is at least moving in the right direction. Of course without statistics its all heresay. But judging by the article is seems there is quite a lot of outcry in the country by rights activists and such and wonder whether that would have been the case 30 years ago. Culture is a hard thing to change and its not going to happen overnight.

Regardless I hope that the punishment is severe and that they set a precedant that this type of action is not to be tolerated.