Can someone explain why gas shot up 20 cents?

[Pliddy]

Oil is in the crapper, it's not a long weekend and the summer driving season is coming to a close, so why the embarressingly greedy gas hike? ...and don't tell me the price crude does not correlate to gasoline because every time some Saudi prince says something stupid crude shoots up and the price of gas skyrockets and everyone uses crude prices as justification

[PepsiFree]

Because the people that make these decisions are bad people?

[Neeper]

Apparently a refinery shut down in the States.

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/201...down/31614429/

Funny how their price shot up $0.22 as well.... then you realize its per gallon. Man do we get screwed.

[Reaper]

Why? Because f@$# you, that's why.

Signed,
Oil Companies of the World

[Pliddy]

What really ..ahem..ticks me off is that the government just sits back and does nothing. I'm usually against government interference but could you imagine what the gov't would do if banks raised mortgage rates 20% in one day or dairy farmers raised milk prices 20 %. Also if one refinery can cause such a massive price increase then it is painfully obvious that we need to build more refineries

[dino7c]

NDP did it

[wontondestruction]

The refineries in the US are purposely decreasing production with "scheduled maintenance" and other forms of manipulation to provide a reason to jack up the price. Can someone tell my why the NDP's suggestion to build a refinery up here is a dumb idea. Looks like an good way to print money.

[Flames in 07]

I don't know why in this case but possibly a refinery went down or is in turnaround in Edmonton?

Why is that when gas prices change oil companies are full of awful humans, but hotel rooms airline tickets and flames tickets vs the oilers change in price every day and everyone shrugs and says it's how things work. Serious question.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by wontondestruction

The refineries in the US are purposely decreasing production with "scheduled maintenance" and other forms of manipulation to provide a reason to jack up the price. Can someone tell my why the NDP's suggestion to build a refinery up here is a dumb idea. Looks like an good way to print money.

when you are In a turnaround, and can't produce, how much money are you printing?

Hint 1: volume times margin
Hint 2 : your volume is zero.

It's a dumb idea because the government would be awful at competing properly with private enterprise. Canada is riddled with very large scale examples of this. I don't know specifically why, but if nobody is building, it's probably a bad idea.

[bc-chris]

just be thankful in calgary that you have a little more competition/options than kelowna.

according to gas buddy calgary, prices per litre range from $1.089 - $1.229
from gas buddy kelowna, prices per litre range from $1.359 - $1.369

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I don't know why in this case but possibly a refinery went down or is in turnaround in Edmonton?

Why is that when gas prices change oil companies are full of awful humans, but hotel rooms airline tickets and flames tickets vs the oilers change in price every day and everyone shrugs and says it's how things work. Serious question.

Airlines are easily one of the most maligned businesses out there. Mostly everyone says bad things when hotels raise their rates during the Stampede to capitalise, or when Flames ticket prices go up after an awful season.

[wontondestruction]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

when you are In a turnaround, and can't produce, how much money are you printing?

Hint 1: volume times margin
Hint 2 : your volume is zero.

It's a dumb idea because the government would be awful at competing properly with private enterprise. Canada is riddled with very large scale examples of this. I don't know specifically why, but if nobody is building, it's probably a bad idea.

But is their volume really zero?

The BP Whiting Refinery in northern Indiana shut down the largest of three crude distillation units Saturday for what the company in a statement called "unscheduled repair work."

It looks like they're still producing, albeit at reduced capacity. I think back to the rolling brownouts California had back in 2000-01. Later it was found out that the power stations did have enough power to supply all of California, but they purposely decreased power output, so they could raise the prices.

As for your other point, I don't think people get upset when the price of a hockey ticket goes up for a certain game, or hotel prices go up during a certain season, because demand is high and supply is low. For me at least, it looks like the refineries are purposely decreasing supply to drive up the prices.

[Fuzz]

You don't have to go as far away as California or back to 2001. We get that kind of treatment right here in Alberta

Days after it was found by a government watchdog to have manipulated Alberta’s electricity market for millions of dollars in profits, TransAlta says it is considering whether to approach the regulator about negotiating a “mutually acceptable” settlement case.

http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...t-manipulation

I have no doubt refineries would try to find a way to pull this off as well.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by wontondestruction

But is their volume really zero?

The BP Whiting Refinery in northern Indiana shut down the largest of three crude distillation units Saturday for what the company in a statement called "unscheduled repair work."

It looks like they're still producing, albeit at reduced capacity. I think back to the rolling brownouts California had back in 2000-01. Later it was found out that the power stations did have enough power to supply all of California, but they purposely decreased power output, so they could raise the prices.

As for your other point, I don't think people get upset when the price of a hockey ticket goes up for a certain game, or hotel prices go up during a certain season, because demand is high and supply is low. For me at least, it looks like the refineries are purposely decreasing supply to drive up the prices.

BP had a fire and has a month of repairs on a large unit. A turnaround usually refers to a planned event that requires scheduling of maintainance, usually a year in advance. I gather their smaller crude unit is still running, but trust me, Bo is not better off because of a fire.

Power manipulation in California is not due to a refinery or the oil industry. Enron restricted power supply, I believe by exporting it to choke off California. That's different and a one off versus the hundreds of down turns or turnarounds that are normal and legitimate part of business.

Your last paragraph is a perfect proxy to how the average person thinks. Prices change due to supply and demand changes. Be it for hockey tickets or airline tickets or gasoline. It's all the same. You have to admit you are completely talking out of your a$$, based on zero real experience or specific knowledge of how retail gasoline actually works when you say "it appears to me". puposely reducing supply both a) only hurts yourself and b) in the case of a refinery is pretty easy to detect. What you think you know about this topic and what is actually true is a very far ways apart.

It would be a far more constructive conversation to ask questions like " why does this happen" rather than assume what you do. You'll learn more and it creates a better forum.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Airlines are easily one of the most maligned businesses out there. Mostly everyone says bad things when hotels raise their rates during the Stampede to capitalise, or when Flames ticket prices go up after an awful season.

Most of why airlines are maligned is not due to pricing, it's how they treat their customers and if the tv on the chair back is working or not. Even still they don't hold a candle to the oil industry.

I do have a theory though. Airline tickets, flames tickets and everything else isn't posted on every street corner, making everyone an industry expert without nessesarily knowing anything other than a posted price. I don't know maybe the overall profits have to do with it as well.

[wontondestruction]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Power manipulation in California is not due to a refinery or the oil industry.

I know the the Enron scandal has nothing to do with the oil sector. My point is, I temper my trust when it comes to any big organization, and the way they make money. I'm cynical that way.

Obviously, you know more about this topic than I do. So please tell me why is the disparity between the barrel of oil and the price at the pumps so high. Surely, scheduled and unscheduled shutdowns have happened before.

[Harry Lime]

One refinery in Kentucky losing production for a small length of time should not have this dramatic an effect on prices at the pump. The price at Safeway in Crowfoot before they closed was 95.4, and the Husky that stayed open jumped to 122.9. That's an increase of 23%. I'm sure that there is not a projected 23% loss in continental capacity due to one refinery.

This does not take into consideration existing oversupply as well. For months oil companies have been telling us that containment and holding facilities are full.

[polak]

Probably a supply issue in Calgary or Edmonton meaning distributors are getting product from outside of the city which costs more.

Prices at the racks junped 4 or 5 cents if I remember correctly so that alone does not explain this massive jump at the pump. I work at Fuel distributor but unfortunately not in pricing and with even less exposure to retail pricing.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I have no doubt refineries would try to find a way to pull this off as well.

I have no doubt that refineries are not sentient.

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

This does not take into consideration existing oversupply as well. For months oil companies have been telling us that containment and holding facilities are full.

Raw crude in storage is not equal to refined products.