Pakistan?

[OMG!WTF!]

I'm planning a trip to northern Pakistan this summer to climb a peak in the Karakoram range. But I can't decide if it's actually safe or not. So I thought I'd ask "the internet". That sounds dumb but friends and family think it's an idiotic idea, guides in Pakistan think it's a great idea. The government says no. My employees say "yes, by all means go for God's sake". I just want an objective opinion.

So far I've decided it's safer to stay here and never leave the house. Short of that, the flight to Islamabad will suck but I'm not too worried about safety issues. The four day Jeep ride will also suck but is done in a convoy lead and followed by the Pakistani army. The trek is long with army posts along the way. The climb is "easy" by Karakoram standards. And the trek back is the same.

Just kind of wondering if anyone has recent experience in Pakistan or insights into safety I might be missing. Historically it's a very safe place for tourists. Except for Nanga Parbat in 2013, very few tourists have been harmed in the area.

If it's a unanimous no, I'll need alternative suggestions for a mid life crisis trip. Thanks!

[blankall]

The government has advised you not to go? You need an armed convoy to get there? You're asking if it's safe?

[nik-]

I think your employees want you to die.

I wouldn't go to Pakistan.

[Dan02]

In all likelyhood would you return from such a trip unharmed?? probably.

Are there safer climbing areas in the world, hell yes.

That being said maybe on some level you're secretly craving the extra danger factor So why do you care what randos on the internet think of your plans?

[ah123]

Do you know people there that you can trust? I know several people who have gone to Pakistan in the recent past, but they knew people there (or had family there) and knew how to blend in and not stand out as tourist.

[Canehdianman]

If you decide to go, send me a PM so I can take out an insurance policy on you. Kthxbye

[Locke]

It doesnt sound like your employees like you all that much...

[getbak]

All I have to say is: OMG!WTF!


Also, if you do decide to go, don't bring the last season of Homeland with you to watch on the plane.

[Ozy_Flame]

If you can get that far into Pakistan without having some sort of crime happen to you, you deserve a medal. May god provide you the best he has to offer.

[rain_e]

I knew a couple people who went over the past 6 months. Not climbing though. Anyways I asked them afterwards how they felt safety wise and they had no concerns. However their skin tone blends in well. Does yours?

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Dan02

In all likelyhood would you return from such a trip unharmed?? probably.

Are there safer climbing areas in the world, hell yes.

That being said maybe on some level you're secretly craving the extra danger factor So why do you care what randos on the internet think of your plans?

My wife is from Pakistan and we still have family there. The mountains are beautiful but they're not too much different than what we have in Banff. The security situation is not the same everywhere you go but in the North I personally would be worried about insurgents and the military campaign launched by the government in those areas. Your basicly going right into tribal areas not really that controlled by the government. The police and military are not to be trusted %100 as they are some of the most corrupt (especially the police).

If you do go there are a couple things not to do:

DO NOT carry a nice cell phone. Buy a piece of crap phone or else your going to end up with a gun to your head.

Also wear Shalwa kameez to blend in so you don't stick out like a sore thumb. There are plenty of Caucasians and Asians that live in Pakistan but if you dress to blend in your won't become as much of a target.

If I were you I wouldn't go. Hell I have family there and there is no way I would go right now, the situation is just too bad. My uncle has had his car set on fire twice last year alone because he is Catholic.

You would be better off travelling to India.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

If it's a unanimous no, I'll need alternative suggestions for a mid life crisis trip. Thanks!

Amsterdam.

Bangkok.

Prague is beautiful, Czech women are beautiful, Czech beer is awesome and cheap.

[burn_baby_burn]

Just watch one of the video's of one of those unfortunate people that have been beheaded over there. I'm sure someone told them it was save at some point. I'm sure armed troops in a caravan would be scared while traveling there. Why on earth would you take the risk?

[Burninator]

PAKISTAN - AVOID NON-ESSENTIAL TRAVEL

Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Canada advises against non-essential travel to Pakistan due to the unpredictable security situation and the threat of terrorist attacks.

http://travel.gc.ca/destinations/pakistan

[burn_this_city]

Of all places you could travel why would you go to one of the most dangerous?

[troutman]

I assume approaching from the Chinese side would be even more difficult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karakoram_Highway

[Knalus]

Where did you hear about this?

What is it about that specific trip that gets you excited? Is it the culture and locale of Pakistan? Is it the danger of going someplace forbidden and dangerous? Is it the high mountains? Are you following a path you read about that has really peaked your interest? Are you looking for a place to go that no one else you know has gone, and none of them will ever go?

Think about what exactly it is that makes this trip the trip you want to do. If it isn't specifically about Pakistan that really gets your heart racing and all you can think about, then there are other options available to you that are less likely to result in you being harmed or robbed. The world is huge, and the options are many. If high mountains are what you want, those are neither the highest, nor the most remote, nor the least accessible and challenging. If it is danger you are seeking, perhaps find a trip where the rewards would outweigh those that this trip likely will, or where the danger is real, but less targeted. If Pakistan is what you want, the tribal areas are not the best place to find it, because you will be isolated from the experience too much by the armed escort. If it is a reason of remoteness, and you want to do a climb that is really remote, there are mountain ranges around the world that can give you that same opportunity. The Tian Shan/Altay mountains are the first ones that come to mind, but there are plenty in South America, Russia, India, ect. that are less specifically hostile to Canadians.

I get the appeal of this kind of trip, especially if you are going by yourself, and not with a significant other, but I have the sneaky suspicion there are better, more specific opportunities out there.

[WCW Nitro]

I'm from Pakistan and I would say that where you are going is one of the safest places in Pakistan and the tourists are very heavily protected. That being said, nothing is full proof and the Pakistani army is fighting a major battle with the Taliban following the school shooting in Pakistan. One thing I will say, try to avoid flying on Pakistan international Airline into Pakistan, it is a horribly mismanaged airline with many delays. If you have any specific questions, let me know

[oilyfan]

I think WCW Nitro says it best.

The Pakistani government has tenuous control on many parts of the country, with the army calling a lot of the shots, and the army itself in a dangerous battle with fundamentalists. To put it bluntly, if you are a white Canadian with little familiarization with the region you are walking into a dangerous situation, with very little help available if things do go south.

I would suggest you go to Nepal and explore the Himalayas there.

[OMG!WTF!]

Thanks for the very very helpful replies ya'll. I watched ten minutes of Brain Games last night (didn't have the attention span for any more than that) And if 20 random people guess at the number of gum balls in a gum ball machine, the average of those twenty guesses is almost always within a few % of the actual number of gum balls....point being, collectively, random people are usually right. And in this case, they are likely more correct than people with a bias. So thank you for your random, collective averageness. Sincerely.

I had a camp councelor when I was 13 and his camp name was "Lohtse"...a mountain next to Everest in Nepal. That lead me to a life time of climbing which always brought me back to the more dramatic Karakoram range. Trango Tower is 5000 feet straight up...almost twice that of El Cap. There are four 8000 meter peaks that you can walk right up to and touch. The great treks in Nepal just don't really compare...at least in my books.

The danger part sucks and I have no interest in thrill seaking by danger dodging. But it's either Pakistan or bust.

I do have a western guiding co. with a substantial presence in Pakistan and thus trusted local guides. So I think I've covered some bases correctly. But there is no getting around the big dumb looking white guy sore thumbing his way around town.

Oh, and I thought about the Chinese side. That seems dangerous in a whole different way. Looks mighty cool, however you miss all the big peaks on the Pakistani side.

I think the most likely outcome would be a safe round trip but with no way of knowing what the risk might actually be. You're always safe until you are not.

I also like the extensive preparation required, the training, the planning, learning a bit of Urdu etc. Gives me something to do for the next four months.

Plus my friends' dog has cancer and I'm going to need a distraction in the worst way. Soon.

Once again though, the responses here do provide some clarity. It's probably not the best idea.