It's time to retire #14

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Point taken, but the comment still stands about why he didn't say something at the time. I know he wasn't ready to come forward but a discussion with the cops as an anonymous tipster would have shut this down immediately. How many other teenagers were put into the same situation as him, with his knowledge.

Well this is easy for you to say since Theo was the one who was abused.

Maybe he didn't know where to turn or how to bring it up. Maybe he still had feelings of guilt and shame and Graham still held something over him. I would bet anything Theo was ashamed and didn't want to let down all those millions of fans down by telling them he had been raped... It's easy for people to get on his case for saying things and being angry easily. But Theo had a tremendous load on his shoulders one that no one should ever have to deal with. It's amazing some people here still want to blame him for not acting accordingly. "Lets blame the victim for not being stronger..."

When Graham invited him to participate in the Hitmen he was likely still drinking to avoid dealing with his true feelings something that alcoholics deal with when they get treatment. Alcoholism is a disease and part of that treatment is to admit they have a drinking problem, this even before they start to deal with the emotional scars. Chances are Theo was not in a rational state of mind to open up about the abuse during the time Graham asked him to join the hitmen. So... lets stop blaming Theo he has taken steps towards healing his life there is no need for people to be so blindly insensitive.

For all he has been through he deserves to have his jersey retired, that would go a long way towards showing the Flames as a classy organization.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I hate numbers retired unless: they won a championship or played a full and distinguished career as a Flame

Iggy no, Theo yes

As far as whether they are nice, who cares? They get paid to win hockey games.

But in his defense, I have met Theo three times on business trips. I thought he was pretty awesome. The only other nice NHLers I have met were Hunter, Stern, Williams and Macoun. I've met plenty who were dicks (after career, when they should know better).

You honor for their individual outstanding effort, commitments, and individual achievements over the course of their career. They already have their championship recognition when the Stanley Cup banner is raised in the rafters the next opening day, or when it is their turn to hoist the cup.

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

I just read the whole thread and I don't think his number should be retired either. He had a tough life but lots of people do and aren't ignorant to people on a daily basis. Also reading comments like "he has done more for Calgary" and that his writing a book about his child abuse issues helped benefit others are a stretch. Did he donate his money from his book or the documentary on his life, don't think so. Did he ever make amends to the mother of his first kid, don't think so. Did he take in his 16 year old son, take him to bars and pick up women with him, I think so.

One other point, I believe he was traumatized by Graham James so why in hell did he, as part of the original Hitmen's ownership group, EVER approve the hiring of the man. Fleury has done some good things in his time, played good hockey but don't ever mistake what he has done as decent by him. If Theo doesn't make a buck out of it he doesn't do it.

Everything you just said has nothing to do with what he did on the ice for the Calgary Flames- doing his job, and exciting the fans. Not retiring the man's number because of what he did in his personal life is just ignorant.

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by moon

Iggy did play a full and distinguished career as a Flame.

And it seems pretty silly to punish Iginla for playing on crap teams and doing everything he could to carry a team to game 7 of the SCF and reward Theo for being a rookie on a stacked team.

I hope the team takes a more intelligent approach than just rewarding/punishing guys for things out of their control.

Yes, Fleury played on a stacked team in his half a season during his rookie season however the Flames were loosing big players left and right the year after the cup win and every year after that. The Flames were not the stacked powerhouse as much anymore after that cup win. He also spent his fair share of his Flames career playing with a crap teams during the better part of the 90's.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by cowtown75

Yes, Fleury played on a stacked team in his half a season during his rookie season however the Flames were loosing big players left and right the year after the cup win and every year after that. The Flames were not the stacked powerhouse as much anymore after that cup win. He also spent his fair share of his Flames career playing with a crap teams during the better part of the 90's.

One could argue that the poor leadership skills present on the Flames roster created a sort of "glass ceiling" for the team's performance. I feel there were a few players in Calgary that when they left, they performed better. Thoughts?

[FlamesAddiction]

I think a lot of people are being overly senstivie. Nothing he said was that bad, nor do they cancel out all the good things he has said and done. At least he wasn't a quitter like Nieuwendyk and Gilmour. He played his heart out for this franchise and was the leading scorer until recenty. The guy cried when he was traded, not like Iginla who couldn't wait to jump on that plane.

Fleury obviously gets a 1/10 for verbal eloquence, but there is no doubt in my mind that he loves Calgary and the Flames (and is extremely proud to have represented this team).

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The guy cried when he was traded, not like Iginla who couldn't wait to jump on that plane.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Well this is easy for you to say since Theo was the one who was abused.

Maybe he didn't know where to turn or how to bring it up. Maybe he still had feelings of guilt and shame and Graham still held something over him. I would bet anything Theo was ashamed and didn't want to let down all those millions of fans down by telling them he had been raped... It's easy for people to get on his case for saying things and being angry easily. But Theo had a tremendous load on his shoulders one that no one should ever have to deal with. It's amazing some people here still want to blame him for not acting accordingly. "Lets blame the victim for not being stronger..."

When Graham invited him to participate in the Hitmen he was likely still drinking to avoid dealing with his true feelings something that alcoholics deal with when they get treatment. Alcoholism is a disease and part of that treatment is to admit they have a drinking problem, this even before they start to deal with the emotional scars. Chances are Theo was not in a rational state of mind to open up about the abuse during the time Graham asked him to join the hitmen. So... lets stop blaming Theo he has taken steps towards healing his life there is no need for people to be so blindly insensitive.

For all he has been through he deserves to have his jersey retired, that would go a long way towards showing the Flames as a classy organization.

I know all about this, do you?

[SeoulFire]

I don't think any Flame past or present has done enough to deserve a number retirement.

[chopper89]

Doug Gilmour- serious off ice problems, including a statutory rape accusation... Number retired by Toronto
Phil Esposito - nothing but venom and outrageous comments for Bruins after trading him...Number retired by Boston
Grant Fuhr - Known substance abuser and drug addict...Number retired by Edmonton
Patrick Roy - Famous meltdown and public refusal to play....Number retired by Montreal
Terry Sawchuk - Extreme off-ice issues with depression and substance abuse...Number retired by Detroit.

I don't bring up those names to say they shouldn't have their numbers retired. I think most of us would agree all those names are no-brainers for number retirement, due to their on-ice contributions to their teams.

So why do we hold our own former Captain and face of the franchise to a different standard than these guys?

Retire #14, or put it in the "Forever a Flame" section. With Theo's move to being the face of sexual abuse and substance abuse victor, the time is right to honour him.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Point taken, but the comment still stands about why he didn't say something at the time. I know he wasn't ready to come forward but a discussion with the cops as an anonymous tipster would have shut this down immediately. How many other teenagers were put into the same situation as him, with his knowledge.

How many other teenagers were put in the same situation and didn't say anything either? It works both ways. It's not his fault he was the most famous victim.

It's all part of the abuse process and its unfair for people that have never gone through it, including myself, to judge.

So easy to sit back and say people should have said or done something different in hindsight.

[Wolven]

I'd be happy with Fleury's #14 going to the rafters but it doesn't have to be a retired number. Forever a Flames is good enough. It honours the good things that Fleury did as a member of the team and as a person.

I honestly have never been a huge fan of taking jersey numbers and saying "this can never be used again". Lots of kids grow up wearing a number that has meaning to them and if we were to draft a kid that really wants to wear #14 then I would say go for it. Maybe the kid was a huge fan of Fleury, or maybe wearing the number honours his father. Whatever the reason, I would rather see the number reused.

What's special is that Fleury gets a banner hanging in the arena, not the fact that no other person will ever wear a certain number on our team again.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

How many other teenagers were put in the same situation and didn't say anything either? It works both ways. It's not his fault he was the most famous victim.

It's all part of the abuse process and its unfair for people that have never gone through it, including myself, to judge.

So easy to sit back and say people should have said or done something different in hindsight.

You don't see the difference in this statement? Fleury KNEW and the kids who followed didn't. It was terrible what he went through but he had a chance to change things. He could have done it anonymously as I stated before and just got the investigation started. I feel for the guy but I don't idolize the guy.

Sheldon Kennedy is the guy who stepped up to bring Graham James to light and he deserves all the accolades he receives. Theo followed, when he was ready which is his right, but during the starting of the Hitmen he could have just said that he didn't want James involved.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

You don't see the difference in this statement? Fleury KNEW and the kids who followed didn't. It was terrible what he went through but he had a chance to change things. He could have done it anonymously as I stated before and just got the investigation started. I feel for the guy but I don't idolize the guy.

Sheldon Kennedy is the guy who stepped up to bring Graham James to light and he deserves all the accolades he receives. Theo followed, when he was ready which is his right, but during the starting of the Hitmen he could have just said that he didn't want James involved.

My point is that there were OTHER VICTIMS that didn't come forward, not just Fleury. He's the one under your microscope though, because he's the famous one.

Just because you read a few stories about the situation doesn't make you an expert on sexual abuse. Victims living in denial is part of the process. But carry on judging, expert.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

You don't see the difference in this statement? Fleury KNEW and the kids who followed didn't. It was terrible what he went through but he had a chance to change things. He could have done it anonymously as I stated before and just got the investigation started. I feel for the guy but I don't idolize the guy.

Sheldon Kennedy is the guy who stepped up to bring Graham James to light and he deserves all the accolades he receives. Theo followed, when he was ready which is his right, but during the starting of the Hitmen he could have just said that he didn't want James involved.

I don't Beatle17, you're getting awfully close to a blaming the victim mentality here.

[doctajones428]

From Theo's Facebook

Originally Posted by Theo Fleury

Hey gang received an email from a friend in need last night and was wondering if maybe we can help him out. Please read below and if you can help that would be great. Also if you could share great. Thanks Theo

Story:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...user=678440890

[flamesfan1297]

i personally think that the forever a flame is stupid. It is two tiered now with having retired numbers and having Forever a Flame. Iginla,Kipper, Fleury are the order that the numbers should be retired in., imo

[jayswin]

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/08/09...pay-for-hockey

That piece of crap, Fluery raised money for a couple of girls that couldn't afford hockey, and is now scheduling a trip to Minnesota to raise money for youth hockey in the area.

Man, as the years go by, the guy gets more and more self involved and dickish.

Thanks to a little help from Theo Fleury, a pair of underprivileged girls will be able to lace up their skates this year.
When Brent Pakkala found out his daughter Callie’s best friend Hannah and her little sister Hope would not be able to play in their Sauk Rapids, Minn., youth hockey league due to financial reasons, he turned to his childhood idol for advice.
Pakkala didn’t expect a response to the Twitter message he sent Fleury, but to his surprise the former NHLer had spread the word of his plight on social media.

Pakkala needed $870. Thanks to Fleury and the generous donations of others, he raised $1,800.
The ordeal inspired Fleury to schedule a visit to the small Minnesota town to raise money for youth hockey in the area.

I realize that facebook thing two posts up could possibly be the same as this, but hey, it's a facebook link, so......

[Alberta_Beef]

No one is saying he is a piece of crap. I wish people would stop over exaggerating to try and get people to take their side in an argument.

They (most anyways) are saying he had a poor attitude about the Flames after he left thus shouldn't have his number retired. That is all, which is a fair stance.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Fleury wore his heart on his sleeve. It comes part and parcel with his personality and his challenges.

He could do a lot less with his influence, and deserves credit for the good things he does.

Life is not easy for everyone.

I don't mind the Flames forever idea, the concept is honouring the player and not shelving a number. He accomplished a lot here, and even if he departed inelegantly, it is fair to turn the focus to what is right.

* Also, I didn't hear anyone in the crowd booing his shootout winner in the pre season comeback attempt.