[GDT] Flames vs Sabres - 5:00 - SNet 360

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Petert

Playing him does nothing positive is more like it.

I dunno this is a pretty important game in terms of lottery seeding. Him losing tonight is positive in terms of draft position.

Originally Posted by Petert

Is there a rule that Ortio cannot play against the Pens 2 days later if he gets to play against the Sabres?
The same coach who played Ramo in back-to-back games while rotting Ortio on the bench?

Our goalie rotation while we still had a chance at the playoffs really has absolutely nothing to do with our goalie rotation while we're assured of missing.

Originally Posted by Petert

The irrational part is justifying this irrational decision.

It doesn't seem that irrational. What does seem irrational is people's absolute seething HATRED of Hiller. Now that's irrational.

I don't expect Hartley to EVER ride a young inconsistent goalie as hard as he rode Ramo this year. He didn't even like picking a #1 goalie last year and people are surprised he's alternating goalies this year? This is how he works, nothing shocking about it at all.

Bottom line is that Treliving has gone on record saying Ortio is going to get the bulk of the starts. That is what people want, that is what they're going to get. So where's the problem again? That Ortio isn't starting 100% of the games? That was never a realistic expectation.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I don't have a problem with Hiller getting another start this season. It's not like he hasn't started. He started two game ago.

Ortio played well last game. He hasn't been given much of an opportunity to get on a roll this season. It was the automatic and easy decision to start Ortio this game that almost everyone expected. In all likelihood you and the other rationalozers in the crowd thought the same thing. But Bob didn't make it and his explanation of following a minor league rotation makes little sense.

Which is why of the respected Calgary media are confused. It's why many of the posters are confused.

I can even buy an argument like "it's an odd decision, but it's one game let's not worry to much about it." But the "you guys are a bunch of dummies for thinking this is an odd decision. Let me explain to you (in a very irrational way) why it's not an odd decision" arguments are silly.

I believe it is true that a goalie plays better when on a roll, which is why Ortio should be given a chance. Besides, Hartley has given the hot goalie the crease at periods before, which is why this move is strange and contradictory to his phrase about "earned and given"

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I would much rather know if Ortio is gonna lose to a crappy team like Buffalo than if Hiller will lose. Hiller I can understand cause he sucks. If Ortio loses than that's telling too, which helps the Flames make a more informed decision in the off season.

If Ortio loses against a good team like Pittsburgh, well that's understandable because they're a far better team, likewise if Hiller lost. So all things considered it makes sense to play Ortio tonight to see if he can win and then play Hiller or Backstrom against Pittsburgh because it's likely all 3 would lose

What if Ortio beats Pittsburgh? Isn't that more useful information than him beating Buffalo?

(in other words, all your hypothetical gymnastics can just as easily roll the other way)

[Petert]

Hiller has been sucking all year long, giving up weak goals after weak goals.
And you are surprised that fans hate him?

Ortio can easily start today and then start again in Pitts 2 DAYS LATER.
And for the record, I wouldn't mind as much if tonight's starter is going to be Backstrom.

Ortio has been comparative better than Hiller in the last while.
Backstrom is more of an unknown at this point.
Hiller crap the bed every single start.
Starting Hiller tonight is irrational.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I would much rather know if Ortio is gonna lose to a crappy team like Buffalo than if Hiller will lose. Hiller I can understand cause he sucks. If Ortio loses than that's telling too, which helps the Flames make a more informed decision in the off season.

If Ortio loses against a good team like Pittsburgh, well that's understandable because they're a far better team, likewise if Hiller lost. So all things considered it makes sense to play Ortio tonight to see if he can win and then play Hiller or Backstrom against Pittsburgh because it's likely all 3 would lose

Maybe the Flames' coaches believe that Ortio can beat the Penguins?

I understand and can accept the validity of the opinion that it is a better idea to start Ortio tonight as opposed to Sat. against Pittsburgh. That's fine. In my opinion, it doesn't really matter who starts what game from here on out, so long as all three goalies get starts.

Again, the problem I have is with the amount of vitriol this decision has caused. There are good reasons to start Hiller tonight in Buffalo, and to decry it as a mistake at this juncture without the benefit of knowing how the remainder of the season will play out is a mistake. It is just a non-issue.

[Petert]

Exactly why does all three goalies need to get starts?
We owe Hiller something?
It is our problems that he could not play better when he was given the chances?

[FBI]

Wow.. Biggest GDT of the season? Yikes.

Here's my thought with regards to the tanking/cheering and how I watch the games now:
Our team scores - Whoo!
Our team scores with one of the young guys contributing a lot to it, WHOO!
Opposing team scores - Meh, whatever, no big loss

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I 100% understand the people that don't want to see Hiller get another start this season. I don't have any confidence in the guy either.

But Ortio isn't getting 100% of the starts. Treliving has said they are giving Ortio the bulk of the starts. Given the games don't mean anything they can pencil it in however they want. Coaches generally like to give the goalies they have less confidence in the easier games.

Therefore it's perfectly rational that Hartley starts his backup against the weak Sabres. He's gonna give Ortio the majority of the starts so he gives Backstrom and Hiller games against the non-playoff teams and we see what Ortio can do vs the best in the league who are still competing for playoff spots. Perfectly rational from his perspective.

And frankly starting Hiller against the other lottery teams affects playoff races a lot less than giving the Penguins a free win by starting him on Saturday. Integrity wise it's also better to start Hiller against non-playoff teams.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Petert

Exactly why does all three goalies need to get starts?
We owe Hiller something?

The Flames owe Hiller absolutely nothing, but by the same token it costs the Flames absolutely nothing to continue to give him the occasional start. It may or may not factor into this decision, but it remains likely that the coaches are taking into consideration Hiller's status and his future.

It is our problems that he could not play better when he was given the chances?

It is not our problem at all, because it doesn't cost us anything whatsoever. Why are you so bothered if Hiller is provided chances to improve on his previous performances?

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Maybe the Flames' coaches believe that Ortio can beat the Penguins?

I understand and can accept the validity of the opinion that it is a better idea to start Ortio tonight as opposed to Sat. against Pittsburgh. That's fine. In my opinion, it doesn't really matter who starts what game from here on out, so long as all three goalies get starts.

Again, the problem I have is with the amount of vitriol this decision has caused. There are good reasons to start Hiller tonight in Buffalo, and to decry it as a mistake at this juncture without the benefit of knowing how the remainder of the season will play out is a mistake. It is just a non-issue.

It's no more complicated than Ortio played well and he earned another start. If he earns another one tonight he should get another. If he is great for the rest of the season then yay us. But when the more likely scenario happens and he has a bad game (eventually) then another goalie gets the start.

It makes a lot more sense then following an arbitrary rotation. It would stick much more closely with "always earned". It would be much more consistent with the standards that have been previously used.

Starting another goalie after Ortio put forward a very good game doesn't make much sense and it shows a lack of consistency from Hartley. It's why there was a collective "huh" once it was announced. That is the part you (and others) keep trying to rationalize and it will never make sense to many of us.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Petert

Exactly why does all three goalies need to get starts?
We owe Hiller something?

It's the right thing to do. Backstrom and Hiller's entire careers are in jeopardy. Why the hell wouldn't we give them a few games each to try and show the NHL they can still play? It's the classy thing to do and CGY is a pretty classy organization. If we were in a playoff race and still had Ramo then you'd have an argument for never playing Hiller again this season. We will still play Ortio the majority of the games and see what he is about.

Giving those guys each a few games is pretty much a no brainer. Benching veteran UFAs for the rest of the season would be a dick move IMO. The actions the Flames take can affect their reputation. I'd rather they do the classy move instead of the dick move when it doesn't cost them anything.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by FBI

Wow.. Biggest GDT of the season? Yikes.

Here's my thought with regards to the tanking/cheering and how I watch the games now:
Our team scores - Whoo!
Our team scores with one of the young guys contributing a lot to it, WHOO!
Opposing team scores - Meh, whatever, no big loss

Same here, however I'm bothered by opposing team goals where our goalie is hung out to dry, and that was a lot of goals for example in the game against the Sens. If they're going to score on this team make them work for it.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by kehatch

It's no more complicated than Ortio played well and he earned another start.

And he will get another start, sooner rather than later. Hartley already complimented Ortio's play last game, so it's not as if Hartley wasn't happy with how Ortio was playing. Maybe Hartley thinks the Sabres are a beatable team with Hiller in net (I.E. last time, when Hiller beat the Sabres) whereas he needs Ortio in net against the Pens' firepower.

[hwy19man]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Went to record the game from my shaw app and it says the game is on SN1 with the Hawks game on 360?

Originally Posted by Toonage

Yep. Apparently Oilers/Flyers on SNW, Flames on SN1. Both games at 7:00 EST. At least thats according to my Bell guide.

That is correct for the Flames game being only on Sportsnet One. The change was made this past Monday. The Blackhawks at Bruins game will be on Sportsnet Pacific and East channels nationally and on Sportsnet 360. The reason for this is due to most canadian teams not being in the heat of a playoff race, Sportsnet is putting popular american teams' games on higher profile channels.

[hwy19man]

Centre Ice channels for:
Thursday, March 3
Calgary at Buffalo, 1700h Mountain
Flames feed in red

Game is on Sportsnet One in Canada, therefore it is not on Centre Ice.

USA
Indemand - Game 2 SD Game HD2
Directv - 771 SD 771-1 HD
Dish - 576 SD No HD Hopper channel 475-04

Sirius Radio-- Siri Internet 926
XM Radio-- XM Internet 926
SXM Radio-- SXM Internet 926

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What if Ortio beats Pittsburgh? Isn't that more useful information than him beating Buffalo?

(in other words, all your hypothetical gymnastics can just as easily roll the other way)

For the 3rd last team in the league beating the 16th best team is not as useful as the 3rd last beating the 5th last. Ortio winning against Pittsburgh is not the expected, it's a the privilege. Ortio beating Buffalo is the expected. So really, there's no reversible premise.

Also, Ortio getting a win this year would be nice. For him and the team

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

And he will get another start, sooner rather than later. Hartley already complimented Ortio's play last game, so it's not as if Hartley wasn't happy with how Ortio was playing. Maybe Hartley thinks the Sabres are a beatable team with Hiller in net (I.E. last time, when Hiller beat the Sabres) whereas he needs Ortio in net against the Pens' firepower.

Yup. When the arbitrary schedule says it's time. "Always Earned". Giving a goalie a start after a good game is so complicated after all.

[kukkudo]

Haha wow big GDT thread. Flames lose 5-4

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

It's the right thing to do. Backstrom and Hiller's entire careers are in jeopardy. Why the hell wouldn't we give them a few games each to try and show the NHL they can still play? It's the classy thing to do and CGY is a pretty classy organization. If we were in a playoff race and still had Ramo then you'd have an argument for never playing Hiller again this season. We will still play Ortio the majority of the games and see what he is about.

Giving those guys each a few games is pretty much a no brainer. Benching veteran UFAs for the rest of the season would be a dick move IMO. The actions the Flames take can affect their reputation. I'd rather they do the classy move instead of the dick move when it doesn't cost them anything.

Ortio has had a very up and down career so far and his job is DEFINITELY on the line this summer. I think it's very realistic he may never play again. So why should Hiller and Backstrom be extended a courtesy over Ortio? Ortio has been a member of the Flames longer than both, so the Flames should take care of their own tenured staff before helping outsiders.

Remember, Hiller and Backstrom have had a long career of chances to prove where they belong. I'd argue Ortio has been given inconsistent opportunities with short patience for him to prove himself.

The classy thing to do is let Ortio prove he can handle a tough schedule.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Not enough talk about how big a pain in the ass the Bouma-Backlund-Hathaway line could be to play against. Hathaway and Bouma are unrelenting on the forecheck and Backlund is a great two centre. I think that has all the components of a great checking line.

I actually like the balance with these lines a lot better than the previous games. Gaudreau-Bennett-Frolik has a nice blend of skill, skating, tenacity, youth and experience. Ferland-Monahan-Colborne has a lot of big bodies and theoretically could work the cycle quite well. I think they hope Ferland's physicality rubs off on Monahan and Colborne. I'd like to see Ferland and Monahan get some chemistry together, they could be a good duo.

We now have two scoring, 1 checking line and 1 energy line. Better than 1 scoring line, two checking lines and an energy line. When we're a contender we may have 3 scoring lines and 1 checking line.