[GDT] Flames vs Sabres - 5:00 - SNet 360

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I find it funny reading all the "holy art thou" posts regarding Calgary's seemingly glaring goaltender choices which apparently equal the desire to tank. I get it, we don't want to be nor look like Edmonton Oiler fans here but can you honestly say you'd prefer to play yourself out of a lottery draft pick for the sake of "pride" if that's what you want to label it?

Does anyone outside of the Flames organization care if we place 20th instead of 28th-30th? What good does it do the team, the city, the franchise other than the fact we can say "we didnt tank" which I agree doesn't look good on paper.

But honestly, moving forward with our 0% shot to make the playoffs, all I want to see is the young kids play well, get points and the team chemistry continue to build for next year. I don't need the big 2 points moving forward in the standings, count me in the group of people who want the best odds in terms of a top 3 lottery pick which helps propel the rebuild next year.

You're right

It's fans getting themselves in a lather over the perception of the team, and getting themselves stuck after looking down the noses at other team's in past seasons.

But I don't see a big LOSE! group on this site. I honestly don't.

Personally I just want to avoid that culture tick down that can happen if it goes too long. I don't like seeing the Flames on the ice not giving a rip, it's ugly.

Glad they're playing balls out right now. Suits them.

[Enoch Root]

I think there are two differences:

1) the team is not trying to tank. Hartley has them competing every night (and the goal was always playoffs)

2) the fans have been largely against losing

I think everyone also understands that, with the playoffs gone, the team is better off with a higher pick.

But that doesn't mean selling your soul for losses.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

What if it was the last game of the season, and losing would secure Calgary the best odds at getting Matthews. Do you know, for sure, that you wouldn't actively cheer for a loss?

Yes. Let the chips fall where they may.

You have to realize that most people on this site and in the city want the Flames to win hockey games.

You saw what happened when they made playoffs last season.

That's why you're getting criticized here - Buffalo fans were cheering to lose. I can't remember your personal stance, were you cheering to lose as well?

[Poe969]

I don't get it when people talk about a team getting a losing culture...if that's a real thing then this team already has it. It's not like this team was awesome and just barely out and now they're on a big losing streak. This team has been terrible all year long. They've been losing a lot and it's not like any of us fans who want them to finish 30th have any bearing on how they play and what they do (and if we do control the team, it's only at the end of the year when we want them to "not win" and not at the beginning when we want them to win). Lots of teams do terribly during their rebuilds but I think the fans who want them to finish 30th are the ones who are so jaded by the team being a 9th place team all those years.

This "losing culture" argument that some bring up is pretty far out there.

[nik-]

It doesn't matter if we cheer for losses anyway.

Other teams will win the top 3 picks because it's not our destiny to get one of those players. Just let the season pass by, enjoy the fun moments and stop hoping for Matthews or a Finn. It will just be more annoying for you when the Sabres/Oilers/Blue Jackets/Coyotes of the world do it yet again.

Learn about picks 5-8 and get excited about them.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by heep223

Yes. Let the chips fall where they may.

You have to realize that most people on this site and in the city want the Flames to win hockey games.

You saw what happened when they made playoffs last season.

That's why you're getting criticized here - Buffalo fans were cheering to lose. I can't remember your personal stance, were you cheering to lose as well?

He's getting criticized because he came to CP and poked at the fanbase.

This idea that you aren't a true fan if you want your team to lose for a better draft pick is ridiculous. These games don't matter in the long run. Next year no one is going to remember the March 3, 2016 game against Buffalo (heck most remember it next week). If losing helps the team get to a place where they have meaningful games - then I'm all for it. I'm not actively cheering for them to lose, but when they do - I realize its better for them in the long run in all likelihood.

Both sets of fans (the pro and anti tankers) want the same thing in the end - For the team to play in important games again as soon as possible. You're not a better fan than the next guy - no matter what you want to happen.

[MarkGio]

Having Winnipeg and Edmonton ahead of us in the standings could be the difference between drafting Patrik Laine, who's a big body righty, and Mathew Tkachuck, who's a smaller lefty. Or maybe it's the difference between Alex Nylander, who's a righty forward, and Chychrun, who's a lefty defenseman.

Since people want to get better next season, which draftee fits this team's needs better? Technically "cheering for losses" also puts the Flames destiny in their hands a little bit, which ultimately helps them get better.

Luck is for the prepared

[GoFlamesGo1989]

Originally Posted by TBone290

Watch Hiller pitch a shutout tonight

Thanks for jinxing him lol

[gartman]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Roger Millions @RogMillions
Jonas Hiller will play in net vs #Sabres #Flames.

Yeah I usually just lurk, but this need to vent. I'm so done with 4GAA I have no f***s to give body language Hiller

So frustrating to watch so I will spare myself the increased blood pressure and watch HGTV

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Poe969

This "losing culture" argument that some bring up is pretty far out there.

Couldn't disagree more.

It's been brought up by how many journalists about the Oilers in the last three years? Sedin brought it up himself last week in Vancouver.

Once losing becomes acceptable it's a slippery slope. Habits get developed. Corners get cut.

I don't think it's "pretty far out there", and I think it's "very near and real"

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I don't get it when people talk about a team getting a losing culture...if that's a real thing then this team already has it. It's not like this team was awesome and just barely out and now they're on a big losing streak. This team has been terrible all year long. They've been losing a lot and it's not like any of us fans who want them to finish 30th have any bearing on how they play and what they do (and if we do control the team, it's only at the end of the year when we want them to "not win" and not at the beginning when we want them to win). Lots of teams do terribly during their rebuilds but I think the fans who want them to finish 30th are the ones who are so jaded by the team being a 9th place team all those years.

This "losing culture" argument that some bring up is pretty far out there.

Completely disagree. EDM has basically proven that a "losing culture" does exist and can not be denied. It is the exact opposite of "far out there", we can see it before our very eyes.

CGY is not in danger of developing the losing culture that EDM has right now, it takes years of losing, coaching swaps and indifference to build up.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I don't get it when people talk about a team getting a losing culture...if that's a real thing then this team already has it. It's not like this team was awesome and just barely out and now they're on a big losing streak. This team has been terrible all year long. They've been losing a lot and it's not like any of us fans who want them to finish 30th have any bearing on how they play and what they do (and if we do control the team, it's only at the end of the year when we want them to "not win" and not at the beginning when we want them to win). Lots of teams do terribly during their rebuilds but I think the fans who want them to finish 30th are the ones who are so jaded by the team being a 9th place team all those years.

This "losing culture" argument that some bring up is pretty far out there.

Losing culture isn't a reference to a bad team (i.e. losing more than winning), it is a reference to it being acceptable.

If you want to see the difference, look at the way the Oilers fold their tent when the going gets tough. Then look at the way the Flames don't.

In the end, they are going to have similar records.

But one team has a serious attitude problem in the dressing room, and a lack of leadership - things they are having a very hard time fixing.

And the other team wears red.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Couldn't disagree more.

It's been brought up by how many journalists about the Oilers in the last three years? Sedin brought it up himself last week in Vancouver.

Once losing becomes acceptable it's a slippery slope. Habits get developed. Corners get cut.

I don't think it's "pretty far out there", and I think it's "very near and real"

What can be done about that? Look at the Flames this year. They paid a hefty fee for Hamilton and brought in Frolik, yet they regressed significantly. If you suck, you suck. You just have to improve your roster and work on areas of weakness in order to improve.

I think anyone who's played on a losing sports team can attest to it though. A player might not risk a diving play or injury in dirty areas if there's no reason to. I will admit I've never been paid to play, but I've been in some crappy locker rooms and eventually as the season goes on, people become more "meh" to a game when they know it's just a matter of time until the season is over.

[Poe969]

Not every team is the oilers. A lot of successful teams hit the bottom before they became good and they didn't turn into the oilers. Now for this to happen, you have to try to win at the beginning of the year. If the Flames are completely out of it like now, I want them to get 30th, if they're close to the playoffs I'd like them to win, if they're in the playoffs I'd like them to win.

I'm more like the hawks fan who wanted them to draft Toews first, not the oiler fan who wanted them to draft Hall, Yak, RNH, McJesus... Not every team will turn into the oilers.

[GranteedEV]

I feel as if certain individuals (Justin Schultz) are being championed as the entire Oilers team and certain individuals (Giordano?) are being championed as the entire Flames team. That's where I have a problem with the idea of a losing culture. It's not losing that's making a losing culture, it's losers.

[killer_carlson]

I think Out of the Cube is right to call the Mathews Points posts on this Board as interesting.

It's a fine line this point of the season. Tough spot for fans. Interesting to see how it plays out

Tough to cheer for winning when the GM has left the team out to dry with goaltending all year. You can see it's affect on the players who drop quick once the inevitable bad goals start getting let in.

Tough to cheer for losses as you end up like Edmonton.

[Toonage]

I think we've seen some attempts by Hartley to keep the group, at least the younger players, invested and to a degree insulated from poor behavior(s) and attitudes.

We've also seem some scratches of players (Stajan comes to mind) that, at least to my eyes, aren't giving it their all as the season progresses. Yet guys like Engelland are (again, to my eyes) making sure they give it all their all down the stretch and are being played more. Likely because they provide the embodiment of the message the coaches want the young players to have.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by hummdeedoo

Well first we had BroDano

and now we have

PakkaNak?
NaklaPak?
JokiDal?

...I'll show myself out.

How about Kevin and Jay?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

What can be done about that? Look at the Flames this year. They paid a hefty fee for Hamilton and brought in Frolik, yet they regressed significantly. If you suck, you suck. You just have to improve your roster and work on areas of weakness in order to improve.

What can be done about it? Treliving will try to continue to improve the team. With solid goaltending and the addition of a couple wingers I think we're a playoff contender again.

One year of losing isn't enough to permanently install a losing culture. 6 straight years? Your core is rotting.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Losing culture isn't a reference to a bad team (i.e. losing more than winning), it is a reference to it being acceptable.

If you want to see the difference, look at the way the Oilers fold their tent when the going gets tough. Then look at the way the Flames don't.

In the end, they are going to have similar records.

But one team has a serious attitude problem in the dressing room, and a lack of leadership - things they are having a very hard time fixing.

And the other team wears red.

I think this is more Flames homering than objective truth. There are some guys on the Oilers roster who want to play hard and they do so on a consistent basis. Some guys wanna win regardless. They want to feel good making big plays. There has been players who called out the team and have showed anger in the lack of effort.

The problem with the Oilers IMO was from a management perspective. A guy like Shultz would've been resigned under the old regime and guys like Nikitin, Fayne, and Ference wouldn't have been buried in the system. The new regime started ensuring there's accountability where the previous did not.