06-25-2017, 02:54 PM
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#841
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
We have one super star player, and his name is Johnny Gaudreau. Trading Monahan AND Bennett AND another good prospect for Tavares really isn't very smart asset management. For all we know, Bennett turns into that guy, or maybe Monahan continues improving into an 80-point guy.
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Oh for sure, it's not safe and likely doesn't turn out well unless you win the Cup, I'm just saying I'd do it just because being a Stanley Cup contender almost has a prerequisite of having at least one super star player, of which there aren't a whole lot in the league.
Lots of teams with a balanced line-up like Calgary can be perennial threats, but the actual Stanley Cup winners tend to have players above Monahan's level at centre.
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06-25-2017, 02:55 PM
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#842
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Franchise Player
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One thing pushing for "win now" mode is that we're not likely to have a better player on an ELC than Matthew Tkachuk in the future.
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06-25-2017, 02:58 PM
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#843
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
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Lots of teams with a balanced line-up like Calgary can be perennial threats, but the actual Stanley Cup winners tend to have players above Monahan's level at centre.
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except for six of the last 8 cup winners...
kopitar 2 , toews 3, the bruins in 2011 with a similar pairing of krejci and bergeron (monahan backlund)...
the only one far and away above monahan's level is pitts with crosby and malkin obviously..
toews is so fn overrated. guys busted 70 points, one time.
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06-25-2017, 03:00 PM
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#844
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Franchise Player
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If you mashed Monahan and Backlund together, you would get Toews, Kopitar or Bergeron.
I love Sean but he's not on that level yet.
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06-25-2017, 03:03 PM
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#845
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeoff
If you mashed Monahan and Backlund together, you would get Toews, Kopitar or Bergeron.
I love Sean but he's not on that level yet.
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after the new year... when he got it together... monahan was great two-way and in his own end.. its not his fault backlund is world class in his own end.. GG leans on the swede as he should.. but monahan was good good good. ...
maybe he needs more razel dazel for ppl here to appreciate just how good he is...
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06-25-2017, 03:03 PM
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#846
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSpring2013
La kings.
kopiar had 76 and 70 points each year they won..
2nd leading scorers were williams with 59 in 2012 and carter in 2014 with a mere 50
nashville made it a hair of the cup with two guys leading there team barely breaking 60 points.
this isnt unheard of
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The Kings had Doughty and Quick. But I agree you don't need superstars at all the key positions.
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06-25-2017, 03:08 PM
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#847
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSpring2013
except for six of the last 8 cup winners...
kopitar 2 , toews 3, the bruins in 2011 with a similar pairing of krejci and bergeron (monahan backlund)...
the only one far and away above monahan's level is pitts with crosby and malkin obviously..
toews is so fn overrated. guys busted 70 points, one time.
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Haha, oh man, if you don't even consider Chicago to be a team that won with a superstar (either Kane or Toews, or even both depending on the year they won) then what teams in the NHL actually have a superstar? Just Pittsburgh?
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06-25-2017, 03:09 PM
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#848
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSpring2013
after the new year... when he got it together... monahan was great two-way and in his own end.. its not his fault backlund is world class in his own end.. GG leans on the swede as he should.. but monahan was good good good. ...
maybe he needs more razel dazel for ppl here to appreciate just how good he is...
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Well I guess my point is those other 3 are as good as Monahan offensively and as good as Backlund defensively. I would love for Monahan to come into next season and compete for the Selke trophy but I would be surprised. Monahan will likely score more goals than Toews, Kopitar or Bergeron next season, so that's one tick in his favour. 
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06-25-2017, 03:09 PM
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#849
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Back in Calgary!!
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I would pay Stone 3.5, or maybe a tad more. But if you're going to do that then the #6 Spot has to go to a rookie. Kulak? Andersson? Whoever. Then if you're into it. Bart as a #7.
Stone is a bit of a tweener. He might see himself as a top 4, we see him as a #5. But if the Flames see themselves as a team that can go deep in the playoffs, they need a guy like Stone on the bottom 2 who has the experience and ability to play up the lineup when inevitable injuries happen. The D was remarkably healthy last year.
I don't like the idea of having a huge drop off to the bottom 2.
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06-25-2017, 03:13 PM
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#850
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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LA with Kopitar, Chicago, Pittsburgh imo are the examples of teams that pushed over the top to win a cup(s) because of top end talent. While St. Louis, like Corsi pointed out is a team that is almost built to win a cup by committee but is almost always knocked out by the teams with the superstars.
I feel Calgary may end up being more of a St. Louis. Still a very strong team that's always in the conversation but would be lucky to knock out a true contender on the way to a Cup.
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06-25-2017, 03:14 PM
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#851
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSpring2013
after the new year... when he got it together... monahan was great two-way and in his own end.. its not his fault backlund is world class in his own end.. GG leans on the swede as he should.. but monahan was good good good. ...
maybe he needs more razel dazel for ppl here to appreciate just how good he is...
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Yes, I think Monahan can be underappreciated. He is still young and I see him improving all aspects of his game, especially within the current system. I'm certain the best is yet to come with him.
Hopefully Bennett asserts himself into a position where he can be in the conversation for legit top line centre too.
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06-25-2017, 03:15 PM
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#852
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
Haha, oh man, if you don't even consider Chicago to be a team that won with a superstar (either Kane or Toews, or even both depending on the year they won) then what teams in the NHL actually have a superstar? Just Pittsburgh?
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u specifically said "at center"... so why mention kane now?
toews is one of the most overrated players in our generation... guy has gotten over 70 points once.. over 30 goals once... ya he's an awesome player.. but kopitar was/is better.. but hes not canadaian so the hype isnt on ungodly levels...
but yes.. out of the last 9 winners only the penguins had true stars at center..crosby and malkin... toews, kopitar, bergeron krejci all on the level below.
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06-25-2017, 03:17 PM
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#853
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Franchise Player
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Kopitar isn't really a superstar. He was for a period arguably the best two way center in the game, but that's pretty different from having a Sidney Crosby or Erik Karlsson on your team who can singlehandedly control the entire flow of play. That being said, maybe the answer is that you either need a generational talent up front, or arguably the best two way center in the world, AND you need to get a strong goaltending performance for two months... which would be a pretty depressing prognosis but honestly sounds about right.
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06-25-2017, 03:18 PM
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#854
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSpring2013
u specifically said "at center"... so why mention kane now?
toews is one of the most overrated players in our generation... guy has gotten over 70 points once.. over 30 goals once... ya he's an awesome player.. but kopitar was/is better.. but hes not canadaian so the hype isnt on ungodly levels...
but yes.. out of the last 9 winners only the penguins had true stars at center..crosby and malkin... toews, kopitar, bergeron krejci all on the level below.
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So who are the other centre superstars in the league if not those guys ?
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06-25-2017, 03:20 PM
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#855
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason14h
So who are the other centre superstars in the league if not those guys ?
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not many... unless u want to lower the bar.. which would then include monahan
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06-25-2017, 03:21 PM
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#856
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
Kopitar isn't really a superstar. He was for a period arguably the best two way center in the game, but that's pretty different from having a Sidney Crosby or Erik Karlsson on your team who can singlehandedly control the entire flow of play. That being said, maybe the answer is that you either need a generational talent up front, or arguably the best two way center in the world, AND you need to get a strong goaltending performance for two months... which would be a pretty depressing prognosis but honestly sounds about right.
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Haha, yeah that sounds depressingly hard to achieve, but I still think turning Bennett and Monahan into Tavares gets us closer than not doing it. However, the execution and possible fall from such a move is where any sane GM likely turns away.
Does Bennett take a huge next step and it turns out we traded away two number centres for one number one centre? Does Tavares bail on Calgary when his contract is up and then we're out Tavares, Bennett and Monahan? 
Last edited by jayswin; 06-25-2017 at 03:24 PM.
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06-25-2017, 03:21 PM
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#857
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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I see the Flames a lot like the Bruins. This was the Bruins' lineup in the 2011 playoffs:
Marchand - Krejci - Horton
Lucic - Bergeron - Ryder
Recchi - Seguin - Kelly
Paille - Campbell - Peverley
Thornton
Chara - Boychuk
Seidenberg - Ference
Kaberle - McQuaid
Hnidy
Thomas
Rask
No real superstars up front, but a bunch of really solid players, including a dynamic, diminutive left winger and a possession beast at #2 center. An aging vet in goalie, in front of an up-coming young star. An aging #1 defenseman in front of some younger guys, creating a real solid top-4.
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"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
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06-25-2017, 03:23 PM
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#858
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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And I'll gracefully bow out of the super star talk as I'm out of my league on that stuff. I honestly don't understand what constitutes any label these days. It's all become so silly and distorted over the years from fans and media trying to label every player that it's become stupid.
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06-25-2017, 03:25 PM
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#859
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
Kopitar isn't really a superstar. He was for a period arguably the best two way center in the game,
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Anyone who has led his team to not one, but two cups as their leading scorer and leading playoff scorer, is a superstar.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
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06-25-2017, 03:26 PM
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#860
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
And I'll gracefully bow out of the super star talk as I'm out of my league on that stuff. I honestly don't understand what constitutes any label these days. It's all become so silly and distorted over the years from fans and media trying to label every player that it's become stupid.
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its all meaningless labels buddy.. we're obsessed with it.. i wouldnt worry about it..
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