2 dead & 6 injured as teens take after hours sled ride down Winsport bobsleigh track

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Well as a random observer I'm entitled to an opinion, just like anyone else.

I'm not sure if you are speculating or know for fact that the victim's families believe their kids were called back to god.

I'm not gonna stand in judgement of their beliefs, but I for sure stand by my post that their comments were in poor taste, even if he victim's families may not agree.

You are but you said the comments were insensitive to the random observer. How are they insenstive to a person who they do not know and has no standing? I'll have to reread the first article but I thought hey had a quote from one of the boys families in it. If not then it is possible that it would be insensitive to the dead boys families.

Edit:you're right nothing about the parents in that article. So it is possible it was insensitive to the parents however given they are creationists I suspect they are more in line with the Survivors thoughts.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by GGG

Did you decide to be atheist or raised atheist?

Because if you were raised as an athiest I'm not sure you ever actually made a choice. People who were raised in a religion and left made a clear choice but if you were born into atheism at what point did you make a decision.

I mean from your posting you clearly don't understand the tenants of a Christian faith.

I'm not saying you should be investigating each one but to say you chose atheism would be disingenuous. A correct statement would be I have never been presented with evidence that would lead me to change my view from atheism.

I've never been presented evidence ever of anything other than reality. almost everything can be explained through science.

At 5 years old at sunday school I knew it was silly. 5! Seriously it is beyond ridiculous, you actually believe a book someone wrote back in the "ignorant age"? when the world was flat and everything unknown was magic to the brainless masses.

How do you come to the conclusion that I don't understand christian faith? who hasn't had it shoved in their faces their entire childhood?

I don't need someone or something to tell me to be a good person, I know from my own values to be a decent human being, and to do the right thing.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by GGG

You are but you said the comments were insensitive to the random observer. How are they insenstive to a person who they do not know and has no standing? I'll have to reread the first article but I thought hey had a quote from one of the boys families in it. If not then it is possible that it would be insensitive to the dead boys families.

Sorry I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean all random people should be offended. I meant that some random observers are offended by the comments, several in this thread. Your interpretation regarding them gettin called back to heaven is a plausible interpretation for someone who is religious, or even just less cynical than I am.

I'm not against these kids. But I felt their comments rubbed me the wrong way, I can see why the same for others and if it were my kid/friend/family member, I'd be unhappy that they said those things.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I've never been presented evidence ever of anything other than reality. almost everything can be explained through science.

At 5 years old at sunday school I knew it was silly. 5! Seriously it is beyond ridiculous, you actually believe a book someone wrote back in the "ignorant age"? when the world was flat and everything unknown was magic to the brainless masses.

How do you come to the conclusion that I don't understand christian faith? who hasn't had it shoved in their faces their entire childhood?

I don't need someone or something to tell me to be a good person, I know from my own values to be a decent human being, and to do the right thing.

Where have I made any statement about faith as it pertains to myself. My only position taken in this thread has been that the existence of God is not material to whether or not the kids comments are helpful to them.

Your comments in this thread and the other one show little understanding. Specifically your comments about just not liking the old book so wrote a new one

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Sorry I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean all random people should be offended. I meant that some random observers are offended by the comments, several in this thread. Your interpretation regarding them gettin called back to heaven is a plausible interpretation for someone who is religious, or even just less cynical than I am.

I'm not against these kids. But I felt their comments rubbed me the wrong way, I can see why the same for others and if it were my kid/friend/family member, I'd be unhappy that they said those things.

Ita funny that it rubs people the wrong way. In general, I think people are uncomfortable with overt displays of faith. I do agree that if they said these things about a tradegy you were involved in and didn't share their beliefs you'd have a point.

There is something amazing that the end result of this tradgey isn't these kids descending into pain killer abuse and survivors guilt. It's remarkable what their faith does for them. I think it makes people uncomfortable that fairy dust for these kids has that much power.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by GGG

Where have I made any statement about faith as it pertains to myself. My only position taken in this thread has been that the existence of God is not material to whether or not the kids comments are helpful to them.

Your comments in this thread and the other one show little understanding. Specifically your comments about just not liking the old book so wrote a new one

so I'm not up on the library of different versions that means I can't possibly understand the basics of Christianity.. typical bible thumper arrogance

[8 Ball]

I wonder if the kids were Muslim or Jewish and used thier faith as a healing process if the atheists would dump on them? I'm guessing not...

[chedder]

"There is something amazing that the end result of this tragedy isn't these kids descending into pain killer abuse and survivors guilt."


Probably way to early to know this won't happen. Or isn't happening for that matter. Don't think it would be something that would be publicized.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

I wonder if the kids were Muslim or Jewish and used thier faith as a healing process if the atheists would dump on them? I'm guessing not...

what's the difference lol

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

so I'm not up on the library of different versions that means I can't possibly understand the basics of Christianity.. typical bible thumper arrogance

If don't understand the difference between literary vs contextual interpretation of the bible then you never decided not to be Christian.

Also you don't have any grounds to call me a bible thumper. You have no knowledge of my religious beliefs. For the record I am an agnostic atheist who likes the the concept of God and the ritual aspect of church.

[Flames_Gimp]

I came for the religious argument. obviously a tragedy what happened but I can't resist the banter

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by GGG

If don't understand the difference between literary vs contextual interpretation of the bible then you never decided not to be Christian.

Also you don't have any grounds to call me a bible thumper. You have no knowledge of my religious beliefs. For the record I am an agnostic atheist who likes the the concept of God and the ritual aspect of church.

well i'm sorry I made an assumption as you've been sure tooting the religious horn

[Flames_Gimp]

noahs ark that's just silly, now the resurrection of christ that's the believable part lol

[Mightyfire89]

Sigh. I will never believe someone who believes in some kind of god possesses any ability to think critically and realistically. Please stop. You continue to out yourselves as brainwashed automatons of your particular religion. Stop it. I think this whole sidebar was started by Reaper who I happen to agree with. He's correct in his assertion that religion is responsible for an incredible amount of needless pain and suffering in the history of the world.

These kids who were involved in this incident are products of their upbringing and are now deluded to the point that they think it's somehow god's will that they survived, but their friends died. What kind of nonsense is that?! What good can come of it? They're comforted by their concept of Jesus and god? I do not get it.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by GGG

If don't understand the difference between literary vs contextual interpretation of the bible then you never decided not to be Christian.

Not true. You can reasonably reject core parts of the foundational document and thereby Christianity for historical reasons without having to delve into literary vs contextual vs covenental and other forms of interpretation.

I arguably didn't make a choice to stop believing, I was convinced core parts of the foundation were not historical, and could no longer believe. I decided to not be a practicing Christian at a later point, but I didn't choose my belief. But even if you reject Christianity due to a bumper sticker that turned you off, your still decided to not be a Christian.

Decision are made without good reasons all the time.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Mightyfire89

Sigh. I will never believe someone who believes in some kind of god possesses any ability to think critically and realistically. Please stop. You continue to out yourselves as brainwashed automatons of your particular religion. Stop it. I think this whole sidebar was started by Reaper who I happen to agree with. He's correct in his assertion that religion is responsible for an incredible amount of needless pain and suffering in the history of the world.

These kids who were involved in this incident are products of their upbringing and are now deluded to the point that they think it's somehow god's will that they survived, but their friends died. What kind of nonsense is that?! What good can come of it? They're comforted by their concept of Jesus and god? I do not get it.

Creator and maintainer of the universe is a perfectly reasonable thing to believe in, even if you reject the idea that such a god has intervenes in individual lives. god != religion.

Personally I find the concept of god irrelevant without religion, but it wasn't that long ago that deism was the common position for educated and enlightented people to hold.

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

Creator and maintainer of the universe is a perfectly reasonable thing to believe in, even if you reject the idea that such a god has intervenes in individual lives. god != religion.

Personally I find the concept of god irrelevant without religion, but it wasn't that long ago that deism was the common position for educated and enlightented people to hold.

I'm struggling to understand your point.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Mightyfire89

I'm struggling to understand your point.

That belief in god is perfectly compatible with the ability to think critically and realistically.

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

That belief in god is pefectly compatible with the ability to think critically and realistically

Hmmm...I disagree, but it's definitely something to think about. Not being sarcastic.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Mightyfire89

Hmmm...I disagree, but it's definitely something to think about. Not being sarcastic.

76% of doctors believe in God. They're some of the most educated of any profession and they believe in God.

A doctor thinks critically and realistically so guess you're wrong.

http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/050714/doctorsfaith.shtml