Israel declares war on Hamas

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by blankall

Israel has admitted that they struck the aid convoy. I don't see what's to gain from "debating" that here.

I've made it clear I don't post as much in this thread, because it's devolved into personal attacks and a pointless lack of debate. If those personal attacks, including this point, were toned down, I (and I assume others) would post more.

That's fair, but when you get some news to support your bias once again, you will inevitably be back debating.

[Bagor]

Three cars. 500 metres apart. Precision strikes.

Intentional assassinations. Just like the paramedics that were lured to their death when they tried to help the little girl in the car.

Wtf cares about the semantics of who knew up the command or buck passing from It doesn't take away from the fact that they were intentionally killed. This is an organization with rules of engagement of kill at will.

Chef and founder of World Central Kitchen (WCK) José Andrés claimed the Israeli attack that killed seven of his food aid workers in Gaza had targeted them 'systematically, car by car'. Andres said the charity group had clear communication with the Israeli military, which he said was aware of his aid workers' movements. Their convoy was hit shortly after they oversaw the unloading of 100 tonnes of food brought to Gaza by sea. Israel is facing mounting international pressure to justify its conduct in the war in Gaza as the bodies of six of the foreign aid workers killed in the drone attack were repatriated to their families

https://www.theguardian.com/world/vi...-founder-video

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Leondros

Well color me shocked with all of this news coming out we haven't heard from any of the good guy gang of Blankall, Bonin-ho, Naga, Language Manahattan, or Doctor F. Would love to hear their perspective (twisting) on the recent articles and incidents.

I had already decided to stop posting in this thread, there is nothing to gain from circular discussions that lead no where. I also have tests for my career to study for, as certain things in life take precedent. As for the most recent events, it is a tragedy and hopefully will be properly investigated. You can keep calling me out making this a “gotcha” moment. I really, sincerely, could care less.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I had already decided to stop posting in this thread, there is nothing to gain from circular discussions that lead no where. I also have tests for my career to study for, as certain things in life take precedent. As for the most recent events, it is a tragedy and hopefully will be properly investigated. You can keep calling me out making this a “gotcha” moment. I really, sincerely, could care less.

Good luck on the tests.

[pylon]

As a non-practising Jew, I have kinda stayed out of this entire debate as I know my opinion would be somewhat slanted. Yeah, what Hamas did on October 7th was horrific, degenerate, monstrous... whatever you wanna call it. A response was warranted, but this... this has gone beyond what would be considered "measured" IMHO.

Israel is now treading into the exact same territory of terror that was imposed on their people in the 1940s with how indiscriminately they are murdering Palestinian civilians. I have seen the Hiroshima/Nagasaki argument "Yes, we had to kill innocent people to end the war once and for all." And I agree, those bombs needed to be dropped. However, Palestine is not a global threat, and not threatening the way of life of the free world. It's not comparable.

I've pointed it out to Jewish relatives, and they don't like it. "Hey, you want Hamas gone, the only way to do it is to murder women, children, families... this is what you want? No?"

Nobody on the Pro-Israel side wants to own the ugliness of this whole situation. All the arguments are "Yeah, but." arguments. Just own it. Just say it. "Israel is indiscriminately killing innocent people." It's not hard to do.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by pylon

As a non-practising Jew, I have kinda stayed out of this entire debate as I know my opinion would be somewhat slanted. Yeah, what Hamas did on October 7th was horrific, degenerate, monstrous... whatever you wanna call it. A response was warranted, but this... this has gone beyond what would be considered "measured" IMHO.

Israel is now treading into the exact same territory of terror that was imposed on their people in the 1940s with how indiscriminately they are murdering Palestinian civilians. I have seen the Hiroshima/Nagasaki argument "Yes, we had to kill innocent people to end the war once and for all." And I agree, those bombs needed to be dropped. However, Palestine is not a global threat, and not threatening the way of life of the free world. It's not comparable.

I've pointed it out to Jewish relatives, and they don't like it. "Hey, you want Hamas gone, the only way to do it is to murder women, children, families... this is what you want? No?"

Nobody on the Pro-Israel side wants to own the ugliness of this whole situation. All the arguments are "Yeah, but." arguments. Just own it. Just say it. "Israel is indiscriminately killing innocent people." It's not hard to do.

Great post. And clearly you know that it is apparently hard to do for some, as you've observed in your life and also by reading many of the posts in this thread. Everything, as you correctly pointed out, is "yeah, but." arguments.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Great post. And clearly you know that it is apparently hard to do for some, as you've observed in your life and also by reading many of the posts in this thread. Everything, as you correctly pointed out, is "yeah, but." arguments.

I got in a very heated debate with my own mother on this. "Yeah, but all of these people hate Jews, they want all Jews dead. And that land was handed to the Jews" OK mom, let's flip it around. How would you feel if a family walked in your front door, ripped the keys out of your hand, told you to live in the garage because the Prime Minister said so and made it law. Oh, and if you try and re-enter your house, they can shoot you dead on sight.

Would you hate those people? Would you want them dead? I know I would, and I'd be willing to die to get my house back. I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.

I'm certainly not taking sides in this whole thing as the politics and history of the whole situation goes way above my pay-grade. But for anyone to expect these people to just be subservient and accepting of their situation is absolutely absurd. They have hundreds of reasons that were historically imposed on them to be pissed. Whether those reasons are right or wrong (I certainly don't know), anyone with a backbone or a sliver of courage, would be equally as opposed or militant if the tables were turned and they were in the same position.

[activeStick]

Very sad story of the Canadian who was killed by Israel, trying to deliver food to the starving in Palestine. His poor partner and 18-month old baby boy.

One of the seven aid workers killed by an Israeli strike in Gaza was 33-year-old Jacob Flickinger, a former member of the Canadian Armed Forces#who grew up in Quebec's Beauce region and was the father of an 18-month-old boy.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...kers-1.7162355

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by pylon

As a non-practising Jew, I have kinda stayed out of this entire debate as I know my opinion would be somewhat slanted. Yeah, what Hamas did on October 7th was horrific, degenerate, monstrous... whatever you wanna call it. A response was warranted, but this... this has gone beyond what would be considered "measured" IMHO.

Israel is now treading into the exact same territory of terror that was imposed on their people in the 1940s with how indiscriminately they are murdering Palestinian civilians. I have seen the Hiroshima/Nagasaki argument "Yes, we had to kill innocent people to end the war once and for all." And I agree, those bombs needed to be dropped. However, Palestine is not a global threat, and not threatening the way of life of the free world. It's not comparable.

I've pointed it out to Jewish relatives, and they don't like it. "Hey, you want Hamas gone, the only way to do it is to murder women, children, families... this is what you want? No?"

Nobody on the Pro-Israel side wants to own the ugliness of this whole situation. All the arguments are "Yeah, but." arguments. Just own it. Just say it. "Israel is indiscriminately killing innocent people." It's not hard to do.

Careful, Beninho might call you out on that by dancing around calling you a liar because you have the ability to think independently.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

I've made it clear I don't post as much in this thread, because it's devolved into personal attacks and a pointless lack of debate. If those personal attacks, including this point, were toned down, I (and I assume others) would post more.

Would be believable if not for the 30 or so posts you’ve made in the last week since the last time you said this.

When there’s some Israeli propaganda handy and a little misinformation to peddle? Debate sounds great. But when even that is hard to come by the thread has suddenly “devolved” into a “pointless lack of debate.”

And, of course, the personal attacks against people critical of Israel you took absolutely no problem with over the last several months.

Originally Posted by Beninho

I had already decided to stop posting in this thread, there is nothing to gain from circular discussions that lead no where.

The timing is convenient, at least.

Paragraphs upon paragraphs defending Israel and criticising Palestinians… but when Israel kills a bunch of aid workers?

A single sentence about it. Each. And a little “well, I’m actually above this discourse.”

It’s incredibly how the two of you, along with Manhattanboy, Azure, and Doctorfever just don’t get it. To the point where, hey, maybe there’s reason to question the party lines you’ve been pushing blindly… but instead?

“Actually, I’m busy.”

As pylon said, it’s not hard to just admit that Israel is indiscriminately killing people here and admit that it’s wrong. You don’t lose anything. At a certain point, it’s fair to question how much more evidence you need before “yeah but” or pretending you just don’t like the tone is your response.

Just be human beings.

[Beninho]

Not worth it. Argue in circles with someone else.

Free the hostages.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by pylon

As a non-practising Jew, I have kinda stayed out of this entire debate as I know my opinion would be somewhat slanted. Yeah, what Hamas did on October 7th was horrific, degenerate, monstrous... whatever you wanna call it. A response was warranted, but this... this has gone beyond what would be considered "measured" IMHO.

Israel is now treading into the exact same territory of terror that was imposed on their people in the 1940s with how indiscriminately they are murdering Palestinian civilians. I have seen the Hiroshima/Nagasaki argument "Yes, we had to kill innocent people to end the war once and for all." And I agree, those bombs needed to be dropped. However, Palestine is not a global threat, and not threatening the way of life of the free world. It's not comparable.

I've pointed it out to Jewish relatives, and they don't like it. "Hey, you want Hamas gone, the only way to do it is to murder women, children, families... this is what you want? No?"

Nobody on the Pro-Israel side wants to own the ugliness of this whole situation. All the arguments are "Yeah, but." arguments. Just own it. Just say it. "Israel is indiscriminately killing innocent people." It's not hard to do.

You are right, Israel is justifying their actions because to them the ends justify the means.

Which why I've kept saying that the only way this ends is if the countries in the Middle East start taking it seriously, instead of sitting back and making much ado about nothing because it serves their purpose.

Israel has been involved in many conflicts where the fighting stopped because other countries in the Middle East sat down and worked with them to figure out a way forward. Right now nobody is sitting down and doing anything, which speaks quite a bit about the situation, and quite frankly has made it obvious that all those countries also believe that the ends justify the means.

Hamas needs to go. Most of us know that, minus the dummies who protest in the streets thinking they're great. And it is 100% possible for that to happen without this war.

But I guess we're still not there yet.

[afc wimbledon]

The problem is no one in the middle east actually cares about Palestine other than to keep their populations acquiescent to their terrible economic situations, the last thing Pakistan Iran Syria,even Turkey really wants is a peaceful solution, they need a low level conflict with an easily identifiable western bogyman in Israel,

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Not worth it. Argue in circles with someone else.

Free the hostages.

Israel has killed more aid workers alone than Hamas has taken hostages.

Israel has also killed more aid workers in this conflict than the total amount of aid workers killed globally in any given year since 1997 (when the database begins) and 10% of the total aid workers killed in total since that time (in just this conflict).

Stop defending and celebrating indiscriminate killing.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The problem is no one in the middle east actually cares about Palestine other than to keep their populations acquiescent to their terrible economic situations, the last thing Pakistan Iran Syria,even Turkey really wants is a peaceful solution, they need a low level conflict with an easily identifiable western bogyman in Israel,

Your posts in this thread are so full of misinformation I think people have just rightfully stopped replying to your posts as they seem to just try and agitate a certain group.

Israel is the boogeyman. They are a terrorist state.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The problem is no one in the middle east actually cares about Palestine other than to keep their populations acquiescent to their terrible economic situations, the last thing Pakistan Iran Syria,even Turkey really wants is a peaceful solution, they need a low level conflict with an easily identifiable western bogyman in Israel,

Yup, and this is keeping Israel in a perpetual state of conflict.

And to make sure it continues the countries around keep building the borders wider and higher to keep the people of Palestine out.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Israel has killed more aid workers alone than Hamas has taken hostages.

Israel has also killed more aid workers in this conflict than the total amount of aid workers killed globally in any given year since 1997 (when the database begins) and 10% of the total aid workers killed in total since that time (in just this conflict).

Stop defending and celebrating indiscriminate killing.

Dude, im not engaging with you. Like I said, someone else will run circles with you.

Who is celebrating war? I have friends in the war zone you weirdo. Nothing about war is worth celebrating. It’s a war. Go outside or fight someone else about this.

Free the hostages

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Azure

Hamas needs to go. Most of us know that, minus the dummies who protest in the streets thinking they're great. And it is 100% possible for that to happen without this war.

But I guess we're still not there yet.

What dummies have thought Hamas is so great? Which protests are you referring to?

Just because your feelings are hurt that Israel is rightfully being protested against doesn't mean they are in support of Hamas.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Dude, im not engaging with you. Like I said, someone else will run circles with you.

Free the hostages

Because you know you can't win an argument against him or her.

Your little tricks don't work when someone who is educated responds to your drive bys and you don't know how to respond.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Your posts in this thread are so full of misinformation I think people have just rightfully stopped replying to your posts as they seem to just try and agitate a certain group.

Israel is the boogeyman. They are a terrorist state.

I didnt say they weren't, Israel plays it's role in this dance perfectly because Netanyahu and Likud need the muslim/Hamas bogyman just as much, they rely on conflict probably even more to stay in power